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SUMMARY:The Military-Civilian Divide: Why Transition is More Than Culture Shock
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTcyMTUxNiUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTk3MjE1MTYtdGhlLW1pbGl0YXJ5LWNpdmlsaWFuLWRpdmlkZS13aHktdHJhbnNpdGlvbi1pcy1tb3JlLXRoYW4tY3VsdHVyZS1zaG9jay13aXRoLWRyLXNldGgtaGF5ZGVuLmpzJTNGY29udGFpbmVyX2lkJTNEYnV6enNwcm91dC1wbGF5ZXItMTk3MjE1MTYlMjZwbGF5ZXIlM0RzbWFsbCUyMiUyMHR5cGUlM0QlMjJ0ZXh0JTJGamF2YXNjcmlwdCUyMiUyMGNoYXJzZXQlM0QlMjJ1dGYtOCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRnNjcmlwdCUzRQ==[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 36) \nMany professionals want to help military families. Few understand the invisible barriers they’re navigating. \nWhen service members and military families transition to civilian life\, they’re often told to expect “culture shock.” But according to counselor and researcher Dr. Seth Hayden\, that phrase doesn’t fully capture what’s actually happening. \nIn this episode\, Jessica Beckendorf and guest co-host Kim Smith explore the military-civilian divide with Dr. Hayden\, whose work focuses on the intersection of career development and mental health for service members\, veterans\, and military families. \nTogether\, they discuss: \n\nWhy military transition is about more than employment\nWhat civilian providers often misunderstand about military culture\nThe hidden challenges veterans face when translating military experience into civilian opportunities\nHow spouses experience transition differently than service members\nWhy career struggles and mental health concerns are often part of the same story\nPractical ways professionals can better support military-connected families\n\nWhether you work with military families or simply want to better understand the transition experience\, this conversation offers valuable insights into what it takes to bridge the divide. \nDr. Seth Hayden is a professor of counseling and coordinator of the clinical mental health program at Wake Forest University. \nHis research sits right at the intersection of career development and mental health\, with a particular focus on the career and personal development needs of military service members\, veterans\, and their families\, including some recent work specifically on military spouses navigating the transition to civilian life. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \nSpouseWorks: \n\nhttps://spouseworks.militaryonesource.mil/portal/\n\nDr. Seth Hayden: \n\nhttps://counseling.wfu.edu/faculty-staff/dr-seth-hayden/\nhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/seth-hayden-wfu/\n\nClinical Military Counseling: Guidelines for Practice: \n\nhttps://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/book/10.1002/9781119783527?__cf_chl_tk=KzKEp3QotoNpCKT8u789ZOz.7I__Ea9bfxdNhM3pztc-1787167104-1.0.1.1-bpa3CFcvdvBE1WDaUs_QgQGyUNbLWa6QWC6waQibXUg\nhttps://www.counseling.org/publications/aca-books/view/clinical-military-counseling–guidelines-for-practice\n\nCognitive Information Processing: Career Theory\, Research\, and Practice: \n\nhttps://publishing.lib.fsu.edu/books-textbooks/cognitive-information-processing-career-theory-research-and-practice/\n\nIntegrating Career Development and Mental Health in Counseling: \n\nhttps://www.counseling.org/publications/aca-books/view/integrating-career-development-and-mental-health-in-counseling\n\nConnect with us! \n\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]JESSICA BECKENDORF (00:04) \nHi\, welcome back to Practicing Connection. I’m Jessica\, and I’m really glad to have my OneOp colleague Kim Smith joining me again\, I think for the second time as a guest co-host today. \nKIM SMITH (00:15) \nYes\, the second time. Thank you\, Jessica. I’m happy to be here again. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (00:20) \nWell\, one of the through lines of this podcast is that connection takes practice. It doesn’t just happen automatically because people care about each other. \nKIM SMITH (00:30) \nAnd today’s conversation is a great example of that idea applied to a really specific high stakes context\, the transition from military to civilian life. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (00:41) \nOur guest has spent his career studying what actually happens in that transition for service members\, for veterans\, and for the spouses and families who go through it right alongside them\, often without ever having signed up for it themselves. \nKIM SMITH (00:56) \nAnd we’re going to talk about why the phrase culture shock doesn’t quite capture what’s going on\, what civilian providers tend to miss\, and what it looks like to treat career struggles and mental health struggles as the same conversation instead of two separate appointments. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (01:14) \nYeah\, and before we get into it\, I definitely want to give Kim a proper introduction because this topic is very much in your wheelhouse\, Kim. \nSo Kim Smith is the spouse employment program coordinator at OneOp\, where she designs professional development for those serving military families. She has more than 25 years of experience in higher education with a focus on access and opportunity. \nKIM SMITH (01:37) \nWell\, thank you\, Jessica. I appreciate that. \nAnd I have the privilege of introducing our guest\, Dr. Seth Hayden. He is an associate professor of counseling and coordinator of the Clinical Mental Health Program at Wake Forest University. His research sits right at the intersection of career development and mental health\, with a particular focus on the career and personal development needs of military service members\, veterans\, and their families. \nincluding some recent work specifically on military spouses navigating the transition to civilian life. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (02:13) \nHe’s also the author of Integrating Career Development and Mental Health Counseling and co-editor of Cognitive Information Processing Career Theory Research and Practice\, which if today’s conversation goes anywhere near job searching\, we may hear more about. \nKIM SMITH (02:29) \nAbsolutely. He’s a licensed clinical mental health counselor in my home state of North Carolina and a past president of both the Military and Government Counseling Association and the National Career Development Association\, which are two divisions of the American Counseling Association. \nDr. Hagen\, welcome. We’re really glad to have you here. \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (02:52) \nThank you so much. It’s great to be with you all. \nKIM SMITH (02:54) \nSo Dr. Hayden\, can you share a little more about how you found this work or how the work found you? How did you end up doing what you do today? \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (03:04) \nYeah\, so for me\, it really started in my graduate studies. So I was a master’s student in counseling and I was learning how to do that work. And I was wanting to engage in some research. \nAnd so I touched base with one of my professors and asked if there was anything that he was working on. And he indicated that he was doing some research on the experience of female service members. And I was like\, “Well\, I don’t know anything about that. So let me learn something about that.” \nAnd that experience just captivated me because I was sitting there\, because I’m a civilian\, I have not served in the military. And I remember thinking as we were starting to explore that topic\, how little I knew. And what would that be like for me as a civilian provider to encounter someone who is having that experience? \nAnd so that’s when I kind of started making that commitment to wanting to learn more about that and to think about me as a clinician\, but also me as a researcher. How can we develop knowledge specific to counseling practice to support that population? \nAnd so I’ve continued that work\, worked in different environments that are associated with the military\, done work with Wounded Warrior Project\, worked with the Defense and Veterans Brain Engineer Center in Virginia when I was there. And I still continue to do pro bono work here for a nonprofit that serves veterans who are experiencing homelessness. \nAnd so there’s a clinical element to it\, but there’s also a research element to it. And my hope is that we can combine those things to provide quality services to those associated with the military experience in our country. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (04:45) \nThat sense of curiosity is what we talk about a lot on this podcast\, hoping to kind of bridge that divide between the service providers who know that their entire list of clients are military families\, and then those who are like out in a rural community who might have a few military families in their client list were always hoping to build that curiosity of like not only. \nWhat does it mean to be a service member or their family experiencing some of the things that they might be experiencing\, but also\, you know\, who else cares about these issues? And so that curiosity that you had that you described\, I’m very grateful that you described it that way because that’s exactly what we’re always trying to encourage on this podcast. So thank you. \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (05:33) \nAnd I think it’s important too to kind of think about the fact that you are likely to encounter someone who’s had this experience\, even if it’s not a specific clinical specialty for you. I mean\, I just think that that’s an interesting consideration\, because there are times where we specialize as counselors in particular things\, and you may not see the military as those things you want to specialize in. \nBut if you come from someone who grew up in a military family\, if you’re working with a spouse. You work with a service member or a veteran. I mean\, that they can walk through your door and there you are. And then you’re providing those services. \nAnd so I do think at times it’s important\, regardless of if it’s like this is the primary thing of that I’m going to do\, like I’m going to work with those who are associated with the military on a on a frequent basis\, or you might encounter\, as you said\, you might be out in a place that’s a little removed from maybe a military installation or anything\, and someone walks through your door and they have that in their story. \nAnd so therefore how are you going to ensure that you do a good job in working with them however you come across them? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (06:37) \nYeah. Well\, I came from a family who moved. My father served in the Navy for 21 years\, and we moved to a rural community when he retired when he was transitioning from military life to civilian life. And so let’s dive into this military civilian divide that we’ve talked about kind of off recording. How would you define the military-civian divide in practical terms? Sort of getting beyond the kind of abstract idea of like culture shock\, which is difficult to put into practice\, right? “It’s just culture shock.” \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (07:12) \nI would see it as there’s a different experience that’s unique within each environment and it plays out in many different ways. I think it plays out in how people work\, it plays out in how people exist within their families\, it plays out in how just people interact with the world. And so there’s so many different ways in which it manifests. But I do see it as a cultural element. \nSo we did some research actually at one point asking people like me\, those who prepare counselors\, if they saw the military experience as a cultural one\, not an occupational one\, but a cultural one. And people strongly endorsed that they saw it as more of a cultural experience than an occupational experience\, which I think is really interesting because I think that affects how we as counselors approach it\, if it’s a cultural consideration versus simply an occupational one. \nLess than one percent of our population in the United States serves in the military. So when we think about that just from a pure like population proportion standpoint\, we can exist within our culture and not necessarily come in contact with someone who’s having that experience. And so I do think that as civilians\, we have a responsibility\, given that reality\, to ensure that\, given it’s a cultural question\, given that we may or may not come in contact with someone who’s had that experience\, that we take some responsibility in learning as much as we can about that\, because we do have civilian control of our military in our country. \nI know there’s a lot of things that go into that\, but you know\, there are people who are being tasked with going and doing these extraordinary things. And so then what responsibility do we bear as people within our society in trying to understand as much as we can about that experience and ensuring that that shift between these different sets of values and perspectives\, culture shock\, whatever you would like to term it\, that we can ease that transition as much as we can\, given the extraordinary experiences they’ve had. \nSo that is my thought of how to think about it in a very practical way. I do think there are some kind of broader\, kind of\, philosophical elements that go along with that. But again\, it comes back to what brought me to this work. I’m in my office as a counselor\, someone comes in\, it’s in their story. How do I ensure that goes well? And so that’s what I really try to focus my work on. \nKIM SMITH (09:38) \nYou know\, speaking of that responsibility\, I imagine that understanding military culture would be essential for any counselor working with a military service member or family member. What would civilian providers benefit from knowing in relation to military culture when they try to help? \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (09:57) \nYeah\, there’s when I say military culture\, I think there’s a lot of different dimensions to that. And as with most cultures\, there’s a Yes\, history\, but there’s also a lot of within group difference as much as there is between group difference. So when we talk about military culture\, there’s not one thing to talk about. And that’s what’s so interesting to me as we think about the different branches of the military\, different occupational specialties within the military\, the different time periods when people have served\, their experience within the military. \nLike there’s so many different layers to it. It’s a very complex picture\, which we often paint as a monolithic picture. You know\, we think about the person with the weapon\, like that’s one way to look at it. But that is one of many different stories of those who are impacted by the military experience. \nAnd so I think it’s important to get curious about that\, to take some responsibility and being willing to learn about that. If I’m working\, just one very basic example\, if I’m working with someone who’s in the army\, you know\, and I call them a sailor\, or if I’m working with someone in the Navy and I call them a soldier\, like that language is very specific. It’s a\, you know\, there’s a way of talking\, there’s a way of describing things. And those things are important. \nAnd so it’s important for me to learn those things to the degree that I can. What was the experience of serving in Vietnam like versus the experience of serving in Iraq and Afghanistan? Those things were different. Now there are similarities\, but definitely some differences. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (11:37) \nBased on branch again within those experiences. \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (11:39) \nExactly. Yes. And then officer and enlisted and all these different kinds of things. So I say all that to come back to your original thought that it’s important for me to do some work\, to learn as much as I can\, to get curious about people’s experience\, to take some responsibility. So it’s not just them teaching me\, but I’ve shown that I’m willing to do some homework and learn that. And to contextualize whatever they’re sharing with me within that experience. \nSo relational difficulties\, occupational difficulties\, like in what way is the context of your military experience influencing these things\, I think is something that would be useful to kind of think about whatever the presenting concern is within that broader context of their military experience. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (12:29) \nSo I’d love to ask a little bit of a follow-up on that because what’s coming up in my mind when I think of and and and look\, this episode is not meant to sort of focus only on that kind of rural provider\, service provider who might have one or two or three military families or veterans in their client list. \nAnd yet I think about that person a lot because when you say\, you know\, it’s it’s one thing that we need to do is get curious and show that we’re willing to learn a little something about their experience. It sounds like a lot of work\, and it’s really important work. And I recognize that. And I think we do need to do it. And also like\, client lists are full. I guess my question that I’m trying to find here is\, we know it’s really important. And I think that’s why we’re having this conversation. \nAnd also you’ve got one or two families\, like how do you do that extra work? Is it maybe no different than work you might do for other families with other contexts? \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (13:34) \nYeah\, I think that there’s certainly similarities. I think\, you know\, when I mean\, one of the things you know\, sometimes I’ll have students and I’ll talk with them about what the expectations for us as counselors are\, because sometimes a question emerges\, and I work with someone who’s had an experience that I have not had. \nLike that question emerges sometimes. And one of the things I’ll tell my students is this\, I certainly hope so\, because if the expectation for me as the counselor is to have had the experience all my clients and I would myself need a lot of help\, because you know as counselors we encounter people who are really struggling and so I there’s no way that I can fully understand. \nBut that’s the skill set that we learn as counselors is\, how do we engage in empathic understanding? How do we learn about their experience? How do we ask questions and explore about the way those experiences affect them? \nAnd so I would I agree with that thought that If I’m encountering anybody who’s had a different kind of experience than me\, I would use the skills I’ve learned as a counselor to explore that and think about it. \nI do think that there are some good resources out there. Military OneSource has a military culture kind of training. It’s fairly consumable. I believe it’s free. The American Counseling Association has a book out. I believe it’s called Clinical Military Counseling\, by Stibnecki. So there are some resources out there. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (15:03) \nI have to say OneOp is a resource too. \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (15:05) \nOneOp is a great resource. Probably the greatest of all resources would be one up. Yeah. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (15:10) \nI feel like I just basically asked you\, “How do you do your job?” My question was probably so basic for you\, but – \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (15:16) \nIt was just such an obvious answer that it didn’t come to mind because kind of like\, you know\, what heats the earth\, it’s the sun. But I wouldn’t be\, you know\, it’s just so obvious. So yeah\, there are things out there that you can access that I also think are fairly consumable. Like I don’t have to go get a degree in military experience. Like I can tap into those things to kind of learn a little bit about it and use it in ways that hopefully will be really helpful. \nBut a great resource is the people that I’m working with\, just as we were talking about kind of that empathic engagement to try and learn. Because even with those resources\, people have their own experiences with that. So the knowledge itself is not sufficient. Like how does this person encounter? Because there are some people who serve in the military who have great pride in that and stand forth and talk about their experience with great reverence. And there are some who don’t. \nThere’s some who have a different experience around that. And so regardless of what knowledge I accumulate\, the person in front of me still helps me understand what’s been their experience. And so I use those skills to try and learn. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (16:34) \nThat’s great. And you know what? I would also probably throw in there\, you could have a chat\, take a veteran service officer out to a cup of coffee or something and and learn a little bit there\, just one meeting with them and you would have a ton of information. \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (16:49) \nYeah\, just one quick thing with that. Yeah. So I teach an undergraduate class on the evolution of the culture of the military. And one of the assignments that I have the students do is to interview someone who’s been impacted by the military experience. \nAnd it is\, I think\, one of the more illuminating activities that we have. Even when they’ve had like a family member who they have known for a long time\, when they talk specifically about that person’s military experience. I mean\, time and time again\, they talk about how much they didn’t know and how much they learned from that experience. So I agree with you totally. \nI just want to respond that it just takes time to talk with someone about their military experience. They’ll let you know\, you know\, how much they’re comfortable sharing about it or not. And so\, you know\, just asking them\, you know\, “Tell me what was it like for you to serve in the military?” Like what tell me about that? And it can be really instructive\, even with people that are close to you\, like that direct focus on that aspect of their experience can really you can learn a lot from that. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (17:58) \nWell\, let’s talk a little bit about some of your work. Your research with student veterans found that translating military experience into civilian terms\, resume building and negotiating offers were the top three needs. Why do you think these specific gaps\, translating military experience into civilian terms\, resume building and negotiating offers? Why do you think those three specific gaps are so persistent? And what works to close those gaps? \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (18:25) \nYeah\, I think that comes back to this cultural question because the military has very specific language. And so there are times when I’m working with people who served in the military and they share like their resume. And they’ve had incredible leadership experience in the military. But when you read it\, it’s like\, what is this? Like\, I don’t understand some of the language. \nAnd again\, it kind of comes back to kind of unique elements of the military\, which is a very specific language\, acronyms\, those kinds of things. The military has a lot of acronyms. So it comes from that. They’re just describing their experience using the language that they were involved with. And that makes total sense. But then to take that and give that to someone who’s a civilian hiring officer\, like\, okay. So we talk about it being a – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (19:14) \nLike what’s PCS? \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (19:16) \nYes\, exactly. Yeah\, that’s exactly right. And so\, you know\, we talk about making that translation is important\, but then also more of a skills focus\, like not just what you did in terms of the roles\, but like what skills did you develop from that? \nSo that’s where I tend to focus a lot of those conversations. I think the networking thing also is kind of an element of the military context because the military tends to be a performance-based environment. So what are your capabilities that can best support a mission? And certainly every kind of human organization has an element of politics to it\, but it’s also really kind of focused on your capabilities in relation to what the military is trying to do. \nAnd so this whole thought of like social networking and connecting with people and and kind of putting yourself out there and letting people know who you are and kind of spending time doing that isn’t necessarily something that is inherent in the military as it would be within the civilian environment occupationally. So it’s like that’s a little bit of a foreign concept for them. They know it’s there\, but like the skills to do that are something that can be a challenge at times. \nAnd it’s beneficial to discuss that. I think translating it\, you know\, just thinking about a job offer and translating kind of your values into what that looks like\, I think that’s not just specific to the military. I do think that that’s kind of a broader consideration about how do I look at competing offers and make decisions on that. \nBut I do think one element that is specific to the military is that there’s often a kind of a clear hierarchical ladder when you’re in the military. Like this is my rank. I want to go to the next rank. These are things I got to do to do that. I need to get more training. I need to go to officer training school. I need to do this. Whereas that kind of ladder in civilian employment is a little more \namorphous and unclear. \nIt’s like okay\, so like I might need to go to this company. I might need to go to this company for a while and do this\, but then I’ll leave that company and go do this. Obviously depending on whatever kind of occupation we’re talking about. So that can be difficult as well. Like I might get two offers and one might be more money\, but one might be more opportunity. So then how do I weigh those things? Like how do I make a decision based on what I’m looking for? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (21:45) \nDoes the idea of loyalty fit in there like cause when you’re in the military\, you know\, you are loyal to your role\, and then when you get out\, I would imagine that the idea of like going and working someplace for a little bit and then planning to leave is kind of maybe for some a little bit odd. \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (22:05) \nI would say so. And that’s also been kind of even a broader societal shift. I mean\, my grandfather worked at an auto company in Michigan forever. For his career. And so there’s almost been a shift in kind of societal contract between people and their employer\, where I think it’s shifted now to more like transitory and transactional. \nAnd so I do think that there’s a little bit of that. But I do think that some of those values like commitment to the organization certainly can translate into that. It may be a little more difficult for them to see that really the best thing is to divest yourself of this current opportunity in pursuit of another. But again\, like my commitment to the organization is definitely something that is non-negotiable within the military\, and then can be a little difficult to kind of see how that would work within a civilian context. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (23:01) \nAnd I would also say in some ways the military is committed to you as well. And so I think you don’t find that in the Yeah. Anyway. Sorry. Go ahead\, Kim. \nKIM SMITH (23:14) \nWell\, Dr. Hayden\, you spoke about networking and I wanted to circle back around to that. You have applied cognitive information processing theory to veteran job searches. Can you explain what that framework offers that perhaps generic job search advice doesn’t? \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (23:32) \nYeah\, it’s so I’ll call it CIP for shorthand. Cognitive processing is the theory. And so me as well as others are connected to this approach in relation to career development. And so it’s trying to develop career decision making and problem solving skills. That’s really the primary focus of the approach. It is something that you can learn. I can learn this to make effective career decisions and navigate career problems. \nAnd so one of the things that we focus on is that process of making a career decision. Because what we know is that you will make several in your lifetime to go to the military. You decided to join the military. So that was a career decision. You had various things that influenced that decision. You will decide to leave the military. So that’s a decision. You will decide on what you’re going to do after the military. \nSo with CIP\, what we want to do is we want to develop the skills and make decisions that align with your interest value skills that again meet your goals. That’s really kind of what we’re hoping to do. And so when I’m working with someone from a CIP perspective\, it’s not just the outcome\, it’s the process of getting there that we try to focus on\, because I want them to learn an effective process of navigating this so that they can apply it to the next career decision. \nIn doing that\, I think that enhances their agency\, it gives them a sense of control. No matter what is going on around me\, I have a clear idea of how it is that I can navigate a career decision and to deal with a problem that emerges. And then I can continually apply that over the course of my life. \nAnd so that’s really in a nutshell what CIP is about. It also talks about kind of these thoughts that I have. So it’s not just\, “I need more information.” It’s about\, “How do I make decisions? Who do I talk to? What thoughts and beliefs do I have about myself in relation to this process that might be helping me\, but then also might be hindering me.” \nOne quick example\, if that’s okay. When I was younger\, when I was in middle school\, somewhere I got the message that I wasn’t good at math. And I’m sure it was because of my performance in math in middle school. And so when we think about that\, like\, how does that influence me going forward? I’m not going to be signing up for higher level math courses in high school. I’m going to look at occupations that are like as little math as possible. \nAnd it wasn’t until I got into college that I had a corrective experience. I took a required math class\, had a great professor\, he talked about how you can use math to learn things about people. And that changed my perspective to where now that’s\, you know\, in research\, I have to use a lot of math. \nAnd I teach a research class at Wake Forest\, but not everyone has that corrective experience. And so thinking about how you make decisions\, what things\, beliefs have influenced you as you see these things. And then as the counselor\, we think about those and then we try to determine how we are going to continue to move forward\, making appropriate career decisions and solving various problems in a way that aligns with your goals. \nKIM SMITH (27:00) \nYou know\, Dr. Hayden\, your personal experience giving the math\, I’m going to put my spouse employment hat on here for a minute. \nIt makes me think about so many of our military spouses that come in\, and maybe they’re already feeling defeated because maybe they’ve got some\, you know\, employment gaps on a resume. And so they just already feel mentally defeated that they’re not even thinking they’re going to get this job. So I really understand how CIP could really\, really help military spouses in that area. \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (27:29) \nYeah\, and as a counselor\, like it’s my job\, I think\, to respond to what you just shared\, Kim\, is we need to know that. Because if I just focus on\, “Well\, let’s get your resume in order and not think about how are you feeling about all this?” Like what’s your experience been like – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (27:46) \nYeah. \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (27:48) \nYeah\, that’s right\, exactly. And so I do think that that’s a really useful example of how someone’s experience can influence how they engage with their career and work. \nSo as a counselor\, I need to pay attention to that and to kind of explore that\, because it’s going to influence them. If they go in with this thought\, and rightfully so\, that thought often is developed through experiences that have continually reinforced it. \nThey go in with this thought that\, “That’s not going to work for me.” And at times\, unfortunately\, it could be just a self-fulfilling prophecy where it won’t. And it’s not to say they should or shouldn’t feel that way. Like it comes from somewhere. And so let’s explore that. \nSo it’s not just about like\, I need more information\, you know\, I’ve got to be good at interviews. It’s like\, how do you see yourself in this process? And certainly the experience of the military is going to be part of influencing that. You know\, if they haven’t had the experience of having to do networking\, they’re not going to have a lot of confidence. They’re not going to do it well. So let’s maybe focus on the confidence as opposed to just more skills. So there’s a lot of different layers to it. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (28:57) \nWell\, speaking of layers\, let’s talk a little bit about how\, you know\, earlier we talked about how there’s differences between the services and there’s differences between experiences. And you might think that something like the Vietnam War\, for example\, you know\, “What was your experience with that?” “Well\, there’s differences within the branches.” \nLet’s also talk about within the military civilian divide\, it sounds like it doesn’t look the same for everyone\, and let’s dig into that a little bit. So\, how does this show up differently for someone with maybe some additional transitions challenges\, like having traumatic brain injury\, or how do these differences show up differently with some of these kinds of additional challenges? That’s a big question. \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (29:41) \nYeah. It’s a great question. Great question. Because I think it does when we think about some of the concerns that seem to have emerged over time. We think about the recent conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan\, the two signature wounds of those conflicts were traumatic brain injury and post-traumatic stress disorder. Now\, this is not to say that everyone who served in those experiences have those things\, but there does seem to be some of the injuries that people have\, those are the ones that seem to really continually emerge. \nAnd so when we think about that\, it’s like it’s not just me as a person kind of navigating it. I have these related concerns from my military experience that I’m carrying forward in my life. And so as a counselor\, when I think about that\, I think it’s important that I consider that presenting concern again within that broader context. \nAnd one of the things that can happen with those injuries is that people who served in the military at times will be trying to get disability associated with those injuries. And that at times can be a very difficult process\, and can create some dynamics within their relation to the military\, because they’re often having to advocate strongly for their needs based on their injury. And then it’s like a back and forth with trying to get a certain disability rating for benefits\, which again\, as you talked about earlier\, like\, “The organization’s going to take care of me. That’s what I’ve been told.” \nAnd yet\, “This is the injury I have. I’m trying to get my knees taken care of.” And it’s like this litigical back and forth to try and do that\, which at times can create some tension\, has been my experience. \nAnd so I do think that and certainly I want there’s good information out there on dealing with post-traumatic stress disorder and different interventions\, but I do think there are some unique elements of those concerns related to one’s military experience. There’s been some trauma focused work around model behavioral therapy as a way to kind of deal with very specific things. \nAnd so yeah\, there’s peer network work around having peers and connecting with others who have served in the network as an additional consideration there. \nKIM SMITH (32:00) \nSo Dr. Hayden\, in your personal experience\, how do military spouses experience the military civilian divide differently than their service member does? \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (32:11) \nMy experience has been that it’s a different orientation to that experience. So you are certainly impacted by it\, similarly to the service member within your family. And at times you’re tasked with navigating it in its own unique way. And so when we think about deployments\, for example\, if someone who’s serving the military is deployed\, meaning that they will leave for an extended period of time in relation to their military service\, the military spouse often is having to reorganize the family around that absence. \nAnd so it changes a little bit of how it is that you kind of deal with that reality. You’ve got to keep the family going\, you’ve got to get things done. And then the person comes back and you have to reorient the family to that person’s presence. \nAnd also as a military spouse\, you often have your own career to think about\, and how at times in the military it’s often very transitory. It’s like we’re moving every two years. We get orders\, we gotta move\, we get orders\, you gotta move. It’s at times hard to build your career with the continual geographic changes. \nAnd so one example comes to mind\, a military spouse\, she’s PhD level counselor. She really struggles to get licensed as a counselor because what you have to do is you have to go to a state\, you’ve got to get a supervisor for you\, you’ve got to accrue so many clinical hours for you to be able to apply for licensure in that state. And that can take some time and energy to do that. \nBut when you’re continually moving\, it’s hard to establish yourself to get what you need to be able to do that. I do think that’s another way in which military spouses maybe have a different experience. If someone’s in the military\, like that’s their career. So they’re continually doing that. \nBut if you’re a military spouse and it’s not your career\, it’s at times hard to kind of develop those deep connections around your work and occupation to where you can establish yourself professionally. And so I do think that you’re both connected\, but the experience can be very different depending on that. \nKIM SMITH (34:34) \nGlad you mentioned that\, Dr. Hayden. It gives me a good moment to put a plug in here. Military One Source\, as you mentioned earlier\, is a really great resource\, not just for the service member\, but the spouses. But I do want to put a plug in here for SpouseWorks. It was formerly Spouse Education and Career Opportunities\, but it’s now changed its name to SpouseWorks. \nAnd that really does help that military spouse with things such as licensure\, as you mentioned. When that service member deploys\, what does that look like for the stay at home parent\, you know\, or are we looking for a career? Are we going to stay at home and raise the children? \nSo I’d say Military One Source and SpouseWorks are great resources for that. So thank you for bringing that up. \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (35:16) \nYeah\, thank you. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (35:18) \nSo\, Dr. Hayden\, you’ve argued that co-occurring career and mental health concerns need to be addressed together rather than in separate silos. I actually remember this from a pre-recording conversation that we had. I was really fascinated by the connection. I never put those two together myself. So how does the military-civilian divide make that overlap more acute? \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (35:42) \nI think one way that it makes it more acute is that when you think about a career in mental health and how those things are related\, I think the military is a performance-oriented context. And so the thought is that the focus is on the job\, the focus is on being able to do it well and to be able to perform at a high level\, and to at times be reserved and asking for help. \nLike I’ve got to do the job and I’m gonna focus on that\, and I want to show up for the people around me because that’s what the military engenders\, is that group cohesion and group performance. So if there is a struggle\, there are times where people are hesitant to seek support around that. And they may not see that there’s a connection between the two of those things. And when people are within the military and they’re struggling\, it can be hard for them to seek support\, which then can impact their career in the military. \nSo\, in addition to my work as faculty in the Department of Counseling\, I also work with the law school at Wake Forest. And there’s a Veterans Legal Clinic. And it helps people who have had a less than honorable discharge kind of reconcile things in their record. And one of the things that has shown up is that when we look at the experience of the clients\, there are often times where they were really struggling with concerns while they were in the military\, which then led to their separation. \nAnd so they were engaging in negative coping mechanisms\, substance use\, these kinds of things\, which then the military\, you know\, of course\, doesn’t like that. And so therefore it can lead to those kinds of things. But I think some of it is this thought of a barrier between me and the services that would benefit me. \nAnd so there’s not always a logical connection between career and mental health and how I make that connection. And then certainly when they leave\, I mean\, there are times where people may join the military when they’re 18\, do their 20 years\, they’re 38 years old and they get out. So you see a person who has a reasonable health status and those kinds of things\, there’s still some years ahead of you. And so some of the things that we talked about in terms of making that transition\, and how maybe it might be a diagnosable concern like PTSD or something like that\, it may not be. It might just be like relational difficulties\, or I’m struggling with this kind of new context. \nIt may not always be clear that that’s going on with me\, and how these things\, like the mental health element\, are influencing my career. I was just actually reading recently where a pretty significant percentage of those who get out of the military and they take their first job\, leave it within a year. Like there’s something that’s not connecting with the immediate opportunity of separation. \nAnd so I thought that was just a really interesting thought. And my curiosity is\, “Okay\, what is it?” Like\, “What did they think they were going to be doing? And how did they make that decision of choosing that particular opportunity?” And then\, “What happened to where it wasn’t satisfactory to them?” \nLike it just really brought up a lot of interesting questions for me. And so I do think some of it is a lack of understanding of interest value skills. How does that translate into occupational opportunities? How do I make that transition well? All these kinds of things come together for me when I think about that connection\, but then also specific to the military. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (39:23) \nWell\, so let’s look at this then for the professionals who support military families\, but maybe they’re not clinicians themselves. Maybe it’s a community organization\, someone who works there\, a case manager\, a family readiness staff. What’s one shift in mindset or language that might help bridge this divide more effectively? \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (39:44) \nI think for me\, it’s to understand how each person’s experience in the military is very unique. In doing that\, then I can try to learn as much as I can about people’s experience because I do think that the narratives that we often see within broader society are very simple. And they kind of have a one way of viewing the military experience\, whereas we’ve been talking about there’s so many different things that influence one’s experience. \nAnd so realizing that it’s a complex experience\, not necessarily a simple way of viewing someone. And then I appreciate that at times people want to express their gratitude for those who have served. And I think there’s great value to that. And I think a way in which you can express your gratitude is what we talked about earlier\, which is to explore with them what their experience was like. \nAnd I think that can really be helpful. And what I have found for the most part is that people are willing to talk about it and appreciate the opportunity. Now\, of course\, there are times where there’ll be some things that they don’t want to share\, but I will trust them to let me know that. And my questions will be more open ended because I do think sometimes the questions we ask are more about our curiosity rather than really wanting to know. \nAnd so I try to ask open-ended questions. “Tell me about your military service. Which branch were you in? What was your role in the military? What was it like for you? What did you like about it? What are some things you weren’t certain about?” \nLike those kinds of things can invite someone to share about their experience. Whether you’re a counselor\, however you’re connected to those who are impacted by the experience\, I think getting curious about it can have great benefit. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (41:37) \nYeah\, I’ve I’ve sometimes thought of it like I see a lot of service members\, my entire family\, all of my dad and all of my uncles on the one side\, grandparents on the other\, have been military service members and it always feels like they have sort of one foot in one world\, one foot in the other at all times\, you know\, civilian and military. And\, you know\, if we just like once in a while put a toe over there and really try to understand and ask those curious questions\, really try to be curious about their story and be there with them for a minute\, you know\, while they tell it. \nThat is such a great bridge. \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (42:17) \nI think there’s real value to that. And I think that’s a way in which again we can invite someone to share about what it’s been like for them. We learn a great deal by doing that. Yeah. \nKIM SMITH (42:30) \nBut I think this lends itself to the next question very well. Civilians sometimes do have that confusion. Maybe they want to say something but don’t know how to say it. Dr. Hayden\, what’s a misconception about the service member transition narrative that you wish would just go away? \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (42:50) \nFor me\, when I consider that\, one thing I would like for civilians to consider is that it’s a very unique experience for someone to do what people in the military are doing\, no matter what their role is. Like they’ve made a decision to commit themselves fully to the experience of the military. And so there’s a lot that goes into that for the people who make the decision\, people associated with that decision. \nAnd so while certainly there’s a lot of reasons why someone makes that decision\, certainly it could be patriotic\, could be a great love of things\, could also be the benefits that they receive from that. But when I think about the military\, I’ve heard it described like this\, “It’s like a one-way door. Once you go through it\, you can’t go back.” \nAnd so it’s an incredibly impactful decision that they made and experience that they’ve had. And so if I could talk to civilians\, I wish they would understand the gravity of that choice and the impact of that on them and those close to them. \nAt times I see on social media great appreciation for those who’ve served in the military\, and I think as a broader society\, that’s important that we do those things. But I would say that that’s just insufficient\, in my view\, if that’s all we’re doing\, without trying to learn and trying to understand and trying to support and to give them the things they really need\, not the things we think they need. \nLike what do they really need from us as a broader society and this counselor specifically? I know that’s kind of a long-winded response\, but I would really like for civilians to think about the importance of what that has been for people who have served in the military to make the decision to do it. And then the broader impact of that\, not only on them but also on their families. \nAnd then we can make sure we respond accordingly as a society to their needs. That’s what I would like for people to understand. \nKIM SMITH (44:52) \nAnd you touched on it earlier\, Dr. Hayden\, as civilians\, the more homework we can do on our end\, not only does it help us\, but it helps us to help them. So I really appreciate that. And in doing our homework\, you know\, helps them. \nSo Dr. Hayden\, this has been so good. Thank you so much for sharing your experience and perspective with us. \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (45:14) \nThank you for the opportunity. I appreciate it. And many thanks to OneOp for creating this opportunity and this conversation. My hope is this is but the beginning for some of our listeners in terms of their consideration of this topic. \nAnd my hope is that it was helpful in some ways. But thank you again for facilitating this conversation. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (45:35) \nI mean\, I could go right out there and say we would love to have you back\, but that’s – we’ll talk about that later! \nDR. SETH HAYDEN (45:42) \nThank you. \nKIM SMITH (45:44) \nWell that’s it for this episode. If this conversation sparked ideas for your own work\, we encourage you to share it with a colleague or partner in your network. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (45:54) \nWe’d love to thank again our guest\, Dr. Seth Hayden\, for joining us and our guest co-host\, Kim Smith\, for being part of today’s conversation. \nKIM SMITH (46:03) \nWe’d also like to thank our announcer\, Kaylin Gobel Mathis\, Maggie Lucas\, and Joyce Bond for their help with marketing\, and Nathan Grimm\, who composed and performed all the music you hear on the podcast. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (46:16) \nAnd thank you for being part of the conversation. We’ll see you next time. \n  \nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/the-military-civilian-divide/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260827T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260827T170000
DTSTAMP:20260901T163220Z
CREATED:20260827T100044Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260901T163220Z
UID:10001795-1787810400-1787850000@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Stronger Together: A Change Framework for Community Action
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The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTYzODgzMiUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTk2Mzg4MzItc3Ryb25nZXItdG9nZXRoZXItYS1jaGFuZ2UtZnJhbWV3b3JrLWZvci1jb21tdW5pdHktYWN0aW9uLXdpdGgtdG9tLW1vc2dhbGxlci5qcyUzRmNvbnRhaW5lcl9pZCUzRGJ1enpzcHJvdXQtcGxheWVyLTE5NjM4ODMyJTI2cGxheWVyJTNEc21hbGwlMjIlMjB0eXBlJTNEJTIydGV4dCUyRmphdmFzY3JpcHQlMjIlMjBjaGFyc2V0JTNEJTIydXRmLTglMjIlM0UlM0MlMkZzY3JpcHQlM0U=[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 35) \nIn this conversation with Tom Mosgaller\, we unpack a flexible Change Framework designed for communities of any size or location. Tom explains why relationships and taking action together are central\, and how aligning desire\, vision\, power\, and action can help us all overcome resistance and move toward a brighter future. \nTom Mosgaller is an experienced community builder\, teacher\, and leader who believes that relationships are the cornerstone of strong\, vibrant communities. \nTom has led\, taught\, and coached community builders in places both big and small\, urban and rural\, locally and internationally. He’s also co-author of Pulling Together: A Handbook for Community Change and Bending Granite: 30+ True Stories of Leading Change. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nTom on LinkedIn\nhttps://www.pulling-together.com/ \nReveille For a New Generation https://actapublications.com/reveille-for-a-new-generation/ \n\nConnect with us! \n\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: [00:00:00] Hi\, welcome to the Practicing Connection Podcast. I’m Erin Carlson Rivera. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And I’m Jessica Beckendorf. Today\, we’re talking about community change\, the power of relationships\, and what it looks like to pull together across differences. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Our guest today is Tom Mosgaller. Tom is an experienced community builder\, teacher\, and leader who believes that relationships are the cornerstone of a strong\, vibrant community. \nTom has led\, taught\, and coached community builders in places both big and small\, urban and rural\, locally and internationally. He’s the co-author of Pulling Together: A Handbook for Community Change and Bending Granite: 30-plus True Stories of Leading Change. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I want to just\, on a personal note\, share that I first heard Tom speak at a workshop more than a decade ago\, and it really stuck with me. \nIt actually helped to shape how I think about relational approaches to community development. So I’m super [00:01:00] excited that you’re here with us\, Tom. Thank you for the influence that your work has had on my career. And also\, thank you so much for joining us today. \nTOM MOSGALLER: Oh\, thanks for the opportunity. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, to start us off\, I would love to hear a little bit about how did you find this work\, or how did it find you? \nTOM MOSGALLER: Yeah\, I think it really found me when I was probably in grade school. We rode the school bus. I was a farm boy from rural Wisconsin\, rode a school bus\, you know\, an hour or so every day to school. They dropped us off at the Catholic school\, then they went up to the public school with the rest of the kids. And the back half of the bus were a group called the Black Jacket Gang. \nAnd these were guys who kind of controlled the back ten seats of the bus. And\, you know\, we were young kids with big eyes\, watching these characters in the [00:02:00] back who played cards and did stuff back there\, and they were very intimidating. And eventually\, they started harassing us. \nAnd I was probably\, you know\, I put up with it. I didn’t know what the heck to do till probably sixth\, seventh grade. And I finally\, I just got fed up with having my lunch taken away from me by them. And sometimes\, actually three times\, lunch pails thrown out the windows of myself or other kids from the Catholic school. \nI went home and I just finally said to my dad\, I said\, “Dad\, I\, what the heck is going on?” And I shared the story and he said\, and this was a profound question. “What are you gonna do about it? ” And he went back working in the bar. And I’m like\, “Holy cow\, what am I gonna do about it?” \nAnd so\, I started talking to the other kids on the bus\, right\, who were sitting scrunched in those first six\, eight seats on the bus. And we came up with a [00:03:00] strategy\, and we went and saw Sister Ursula\, the principal at our school. She heard our story\, and we shared what had happened\, and she went up to the principal of the high school\, and they had a conversation\, and they came back. They then held a meeting\, pulled all the parents in\, and had a meeting\, and we got to share our stories with all those parents. \nAnd man\, it totally changed the way that operated. I learned from that\, that if you build relationships\, figure out a strategy\, and are willing to have the courage to act on that\, you can make a difference. So\, I don’t want to make a big deal out of it\, but it set in my mind and set in motion my whole life of working with David against Goliath. It’s just been part of who I am. I don’t like bullies\, and I like people to be able to fight above their weight class. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Wow. You were much more of a reflective kid [00:04:00] than I was. As a natural redhead\, kids\, for some reason\, wanted to pull my hair all the time.. And they were real mean about it\, too. I just remember crying to my mom and my mom going to the other moms. I did not reflect on what that meant at all. All I knew is that the hair pulling stopped\, and I was happy. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I love that story of you as a kid. It reminds me of a book I read called Frindle\, which was great. But that’s really off-topic\, so I’m gonna circle us back. \nSo that sounds like it was a very formative experience when you were a kid. Did you know immediately that you wanted to go into working in community development\, or did that kind of come later with time? \nTOM MOSGALLER: Yeah\, it did. You know\, doors open up in our lives\, right? Where events happen\, or people bump into us\, or things like that. And I always say\, “If you can do it\, go for it.” \nBecause I just got back – I got drafted right out of college\, and I was blessed to have played hockey in [00:05:00] college\, and I was captain of the hockey team. And so\, when I got into the army\, they pulled me out of rank the first day and put fake stripes on me and made me the leader of my company. \nSo\, I was thrust into a leadership role and had to lead 80 guys. And I did that during basic training\, advanced training\, and then my unit when I was in service. And it taught me a lot about how you work with people\, how building relationships are critical to building a culture in your unit\, and then being successful with that. \nSo\, when I got back\, I wasn’t sure what the heck I was gonna do at 23 or whatever I was. And that’s true of a lot of us. And somebody just said\, “You know\, Tom\, I see you were thinking about going to Case Western to become a social worker\, and you got way too much edge. You had the most penalty minutes at college in hockey. I don’t think you want to be a social worker\, [00:06:00] or that you should be a social worker. Did you ever heard of the thing called community organizer?” \nAnd I said\, “I didn’t. What is that?” And – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I love the idea\, by the way\, that social workers are considered edgy. \nTOM MOSGALLER: Well\, I’m saying organizers can be more edgy\, right? I mean – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Uh-huh. \nTOM MOSGALLER: You gotta have that kinda sense of\, “This ain’t right\, and you’re gonna do something about it\,” just not go from case to case\, not being able to have the power to actually change the system\, right? I wanted to change systems. \nMore important than\, “I want to change this\,” I wanted to learn how I could help people change systems. \nAnd that was\, you know\, what I wanted to learn. And I\, when I heard about it\, and I heard about the work of you could go places and actually learn by practicing\, I just glommed onto it and drove from our farm in northern Wisconsin to Chicago\, and got involved in a major battle when the [00:07:00] Eisenhower Expressway was being put through the city\, and it was going to rip up all these neighborhoods of different ethnic groups. Some planner had just drawn a straight line through downtown. \nAnd we were able to\, by organizing people who oftentimes didn’t get along: Polish\, Hispanic\, Irish\, but they had common self-interest around this path that would not destroy their cultural communities. And so if you go through Chicago these days and you see the highway turns and twists a little bit\, that is a tribute to people working together. \nAnd I learned so much about power and change through that kind of experience and the importance of compromise. And then moved on from there to other organizing efforts and continued to\, you know\, hone my skills and develop a lot of what I consider leaders who were a hell of a lot better than I was. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, [00:08:00] I would love to kind of switch a little bit because you were talking about some different experiences you had going from northern Wisconsin down to Chicago to help that effort with the expressway. It does bring to mind this idea of community. And so I really want to ask you about basically\, what is community\, right? \nWhen you say community\, what do you mean in practice? \nTOM MOSGALLER: Yeah\, so I think we could have a long conversation on that. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Let’s do it. \nTOM MOSGALLER: So when we talk about community\, I mean\, it comes from the Latin word communitas. It’s a dynamic word. It’s like neighborhood. How you would describe what boundaries or scale is a neighborhood may be very different from me. \nSo we’ve got to work together to calibrate when we say community\, right? That’s one of the first things we’ve got to do. If we’re going to work together\, then we’ve got to think about how we define our community. For example\, when I organized in Philadelphia as a brash [00:09:00] 24-year-old\, and I was going to organize Philadelphia\, I mean\, you know\, think about that\, you know? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That sounds like a 24-year-old and new in their career. I’m just kidding. \nTOM MOSGALLER: Right? So it was the city of Philly. It was Bucks County. It was all the counties around it. And we then kind of defined that geographic area. So it could be a sense of place. It could be a sense of a certain set of values that you have. \nCould be around a religious faith or whatever might be a set of values. It could also be about an emotional attachment. So all the Harley riders have an emotional attachment to a certain set of Harley-Davidson bikes\, and they are committed to that. So I think it\, you’ve really got to figure out for yourself what is that community. \nWhen I worked in Argentina after the disappearance of people\, trying to get people back in civic life after 20\,000 people [00:10:00] were basically disappeared\, how do you define that community. And for me\, the people who brought me there were the Quality of Life Foundation\, people who had lost family. That was the community. \nMm-hmm. People who lost their family. That was the boundary of a core of that particular organizing effort\, right? And it was such a deep passion that made them want to be able to do something that was positive around what they had experienced as families. So that’s kind of\, you helped me with that\, but that’s the way I\, when I go into a place\, I think dynamically about community\, relational community – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nTOM MOSGALLER: Geographic place\, and you settle on something\, but you don’t do it alone. You do it in relationship to other people who you are seeking to be part of some kind of way of thinking. \nSo those of us who were against\, you know\, the Black [00:11:00] Leather Jacket gang on the front of that bus\, we’re a community eventually. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, and that’s actually one question I had. So it’s not something you do alone\, but it does sound like it’s also deeply personal\, right? So it’s something that you\, that you need to feel out for yourself\, but also it’s something that’s felt by a group. \nTOM MOSGALLER: Absolutely. Absolutely. I totally agree. It’s a living process of defining that community\, right? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So you’ve written about kind of a community change formula. How would you describe that to someone who’s hearing about it for the first time? \nTOM MOSGALLER: Yeah\, so thank you for the question. So\, yeah\, I call it a framework as opposed to an algorithm or a formula\, because it sounds too rigid. And in fact\, in like neighborhood or community\, it’s not rigid. It’s dynamic in the sense that it’s evolving. People [00:12:00] can enter it anywhere along a process that they’re working on something. \nBut the key thing about the framework and why we use that as kind of the skeleton for the handbook we created is it gives people handholds for being able to take something that can be extremely abstract\, like community building or community change\, and gives it some context. \nSo this last week I’ve been working with a group\, and I just walked through it in two minutes\, and that’s what I’m going to do right now\, just so everybody who gets to listen to this might appreciate it. So when I created this\, by the way\, you know\, it’s kind of taking 50 years of doing this stuff and saying\, “What are the critical elements that you and I have got to think about if we’re trying to create a change around something that we care deeply and have a deep passion about?” \nAnd so if you want to have [00:13:00] community change\, there are four factors we think are essential to that. The first is\, you have to assess the desire of people\, what I call the D for desire. How deep and how broad is the strength of will of people to actually want to do this? \nAnd that doesn’t happen by accident. That means you’ve got to go out and you’ve got to begin to have some conversations with people to assess whether you just have a great idea\, or you have a tremendous desire about this. Or there are other people saying\, “Oh my God\, I didn’t know there was anybody else who cared about this\,” or\, you know\, “We are people that care about this\,” and you start building out your base of concern about this particular topic. \nAn example that just comes to mind in a small town in western Wisconsin\, we were getting a lot of requests by the local businesses on how do we get young people in those communities? See\, [00:14:00] there’s a lot of great opportunities for work in this part of the state. But people who were in high school didn’t know all the things that were right there in their community. \nSo we went out and did a hundred one-on-ones with people in that community around trying to find out how many businesses\, how many small not-for-profits could serve to be places where high school students could go and actually apprentice. And we developed an apprentice system for these young people to work in those facilities. \nAnd many of them are staying in that community now\, because they appreciate that their community has all kinds of places they could be working\, but they had no clue. So by being apprentices and being mentored in those businesses\, they stayed in their hometowns. \nSo that’s the D\, the will factor. Times V\, which is a vision. \nSo if\, [00:15:00] when I do this\, I often talk to people\, “You clear on desire? You’ve got enough will to act on this. Do you have a sense of a vision collectively?” That’s going to evolve over time as you get into action. You’re going to be evolving that vision. But what is kind of the original vision\, the possibilities? \nAnd do you have a strategy of what might be some first things you might do around that? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So Tom\, excuse the interruption quick\, because I just want to really point something out here. You said something about\, “What is the vision collectively?” So we’re not talking about one person who has decided that this is the vision we should go for\, and they’re just trying to get everyone on board. Although maybe that did happen because everyone’s like\, “That is a good vision. I do share that.” \nYou know\, maybe that happens. But we’re talking about a collective vision\, right? \nTOM MOSGALLER: We are. Thanks\, Jessica\, for catching that\, because we are talking about a shared vision. That’s part of the building of your capacity to act. \nYou find people [00:16:00] who have a desire\, you make an offer to them to see if they’ll come together\, and whether you can create alignment around a common\, which may not be your original vision or hers or his\, but what we can collectively agree on is a vision for the action we want to take. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nTOM MOSGALLER: Okay. Thank you. \nAnd then the third element\, and to me\, this is the transmission in the automobile that gets the energy to the back wheels or to the wheels\, and that is Power. And we do not do a very good job helping people understand power in this society. I just\, I think people avoid it. People are intimidated by it. \nAgain\, power is a neutral term. It comes from the Latin word pose. It means the ability to act\, to get stuff done. You have to have power. Your power of your own personal efficacy and your own capacity to make change\, the confidence and the understanding\, plus [00:17:00] that of others in terms of the capacity to work together to create power. \nAnd I’m talking about power with versus power over\, which is always a big difference for people\, because most of us\, the minute we say the word ‘power\,’ we’ve experienced power over. Where somebody puts the thumb on us who reports to who in a hierarchical model. \nI’m talking about the power that happens when people work together. And we in community building talk about two forms of primary power. One is organized people\, and the second is organized money. When you have both of those\, you can affect some change. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I love that framing of power\, the organized people in organized money rather than the ways that we normally think about it and talk about it. \nThere’s also sort of the perceived\, and we can get more into this later on when we break down\, you know\, a couple of pitfalls\, but there’s also that kind of perceived [00:18:00] power that maybe isn’t positional\, but people perceive a positional power because maybe someone is bringing more money to the table than anyone else. That is super important. \nBut sometimes the organized power I’ve seen in my experience gets a little bit diminished when everyone in the room is looking to the one person that maybe has sort of that\, the money power\, I guess. You know\, I’ve seen some of those things happen. And so I love the framing of\, like\, thinking of it as organized power and organized money because it feels a little bit more flat. \nDoes that make sense? \nTOM MOSGALLER: Yeah. And\, you know\, people who are at the table earn that by delivering. So when we built the organization in Philly way back\, it was 270 different networks across the whole city. We had 3\,000 people at the founding convention representing 270 organizations. They built that. It was their power. They raised their own money. They [00:19:00] learned how to have the power of raising money and that skill\, as well as their ability to choose what they acted on and how to go about the actions they wanted to take. \nAnd to me\, that’s when civic life comes alive. That’s when civic life comes alive. And it’s bottom up. It’s when real people can affect change. \nSo that’s the P. And the P consists of two things. The depth and breadth of your relationships. We always say leadership is\, “Leaders are people who have a following and they can deliver.” We’re pretty hard on that. We really believe that it’s not just charisma or they’re a good speaker\, but they really have the capacity to lead\, because people follow them. \nIt’s the difference between Moses and Aaron in the Bible\, right? Moses says that\, you know\, “I’m not a good speaker. I stutter.” But God says to him\, “Yeah\, but people follow you. Aaron [00:20:00] is your brother and a hell of a good speaker. And he can do a lot of the speaking\, but you’re the one that’s going to lead this.” And I think that’s a powerful thing for all of us to think about. \nSome of the best leaders I have worked with declare themselves not to be leaders. So the R is the pivot foot for all of it\, the relationship building\, right? And that times the willingness to act. So R plus A\, R plus A is the power framing. P equals R plus A\, the willingness to act. There are a lot of people who have networks and connections and relationships\, but if they’re not willing to actually act on that\, to do something with those skills\, then it’s just\, it’s not going to be\, you know\, I see the lack of potential for actually getting stuff done. \nAnd then finally\, all of that\, all of that\, the desire\, the vision\, the power have to be greater than the resistance you’re going to anticipate. And [00:21:00] oftentimes\, I see people not anticipate the resistance. And then they’re surprised by it\, and they try to remain innocent about that. And I push them to say\, “Okay\, let’s start anticipating where the pushback’s gonna come.” \nSometimes in our lives\, we are the resistors. The group I’m working with right now\, trying to fight a power line that’s going to go across the state of Wisconsin\, put in 200-foot towers\, these transmission lines\, and they’re just regular people\, ordinary people who all of a sudden are being surprised\, right? I haven’t even worked with them on right and wrong. \nWe’re still trying to figure out who we are and how we’re going to organize. How deep is the desire? Get a clear sense of our vision and our capacity to fight above our weight class against utilities that have had 50 years of experience and how to win on these things. So this is a David and [00:22:00] Goliath experience. \nAnd so the point I’m trying to make\, sometimes we are resistors\, and sometimes we have to deal with resistance. But do not be naïve about the concept of resistance because it will be there no matter what you’re going to take on. There you go. That’s the framework. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Wow. There’s a lot there. It’s very rich. I think one of the first places I wanna go to is you talk about people having a lot of misconceptions about power. \nAnd so I’m wondering if you could just flesh out a little bit about what it looks like when power is working well\, and what does it look like when there are pitfalls or when it’s crunchy? \nTOM MOSGALLER: Yeah\, yeah. So to me\, our becoming knowledgeable about power is so\, so critical\, because if we’re not comfortable with beginning with ourselves\, with our own [00:23:00] understanding of our own power\, when we begin working with people in communities\, one of the first things I ask people to do is draw a stick person of themselves and to write down around that stick person all the things that they are involved in or care about in their lives. \nSo it’s an opportunity to get grounded in your own power and to look at yourself objectively\, define your kind of sense of mission about who you are\, and then what are the activities and things that you’re investing yourself in\, in order to achieve that mission. And to get grounded in your own sense of being healthy yourself and your own power and feeling comfortable with that power. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I think one of the important parts of that particular activity is that it helps you think about power differently\, right? So thinking about those things as power. \nTOM MOSGALLER: That’s right. Thank you\, Jessica. It does\, because when you put down [00:24:00] the things that you have relationships with\, the networks you’re associated with\, your church\, your civic groups\, whatever it might be\, people in your neighborhood\, you know\, your hobbies you have with groups that you meet with\, your book club or the farm group that I meet with on Wednesday afternoons down at the bar. \nI mean\, all of those are networks that we don’t think about. They’re just part of our lives. But they are part of our power\, because they represent different groups of organized people that I have connections and relationships with. And then all of a sudden say\, “Holy cow\, I got all of these different networks and they have networks. And if I want to work on something that I have a passion for\, right\, then I need to be checking whether or not when I go to the euchre table on Wednesday afternoon down at the bar. I’ve got to ask the guys\, you know\, what do you think about this?” [00:25:00] Right? And find out what the desire level is to care about something deep enough. \nAnd then will they act? Or will they just sit there and come up with all the solutions they think they can have\, but that’s as far as it’s going to go. So thank you for reminding me of that. Power begins by your own assessment of your willingness and ability to act and your desire to act. And then that broadens out as you start creating that shared sense that comes when you start tapping into networks of people around you. \nThe organizing I have been part of is very clear and very disciplined about that part of power building\, is that it’s power with and it’s building that capacity. If we say we’re going to have 1\,200 people at a meeting\, we will have 1\,250\, because we have the discipline of the networks that we [00:26:00] connect with to make it happen. \nToo many groups declare themselves powerful\, but they can’t fill a Volkswagen bug with their number of people. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: What do you see happen most often when it comes to power? What do you see over and over again that you need to\, when you’re working with groups\, you need to kind of help gently correct or change? \nTOM MOSGALLER: Well\, people tend to be impatient about the building of power. They want it to be instant. They want instant putting that\, you know\, I care about it\, you care about it. So hell\, everybody must care about what I care about\, right? And then\, you know\, no one shows up. You don’t do the discipline process\, the hard work. \nI don’t consider it hard work. I think it’s a great honor that we get to go out and listen to other people and relate to them and build a network of connections with them to find out what the hell’s important in their life today\, [00:27:00] which oftentimes is way different than what the media is telling you about\, right? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nTOM MOSGALLER: When you get into people’s lives in their living room or at their kitchen table and you talk with them\, you find out what the hell’s going on in people’s lives. We got a whole hell of a lot more in common than we do in difference. But that takes the discipline of sitting down and saying\, “Who are the five people I’m going to go out and talk to this month and check with them if they care about this? \nAnd what do they care about? What’s important to them and their families today? That’s a disciplined process of building power over time. And that’s why we believe you never stop building relationships. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I always tell people that the thing that I see most often is\, it’s very similar to what you’re describing\, that we want to go immediately to the actions and like\, “Okay\, I’m gonna do this\, you do that\, you do that. Break. We’ll all go do the things and we’ll come [00:28:00] back next month and update each other.” \nAnd we don’t spend time even just talking about\, how are we going to be together? Like who are we together? And what are we doing? So anyway\, I appreciate that. Yeah. The power stuff kind of is mixed in with that. \nTOM MOSGALLER: And I think a lot of us have been\, I don’t know if it’s taught or it’s culturally subliminal\, but if we want to be polite\, we’re taught to be polite and not to agitate. The word means to stir\, to press people to open them up a bit about what the hell’s important in their lives and their families. And I think we’ve got to do that because we’ve got to break them loose from this politeness. The politeness is killing us. We’ve got to pull into action. \nIt doesn’t mean we’re not respectful. It doesn’t mean\, you know\, we act rudely or we rage. I don’t mean that. I mean\, we have to have enough courage to stand for what we [00:29:00] believe in. And that goes back to your point\, Jessica. That means we’ve got to be clear together about what that is. What is our aim collectively that we can agree on that we want to take into public life? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. I’m actually really curious\, so your kind of framework has a couple of different pieces. And I’m really curious about the relationship between shared vision and resistance. And to me\, it seems\, well\, of course\, when you face resistance\, you then talk about your shared vision. But is that true or do you find that it’s not just that? Tell us a little bit more about how\, like\, resistance interacts with the other pieces. \nTOM MOSGALLER: Yeah. So you’re raising a good point. One of the things\, and again\, I can share a story from this week\, but in the book\, we share a very simple thing that we do. It’s embarrassingly simple because\, you know\, that’s just the way we try and design everything we do\, so that people can use it on a daily basis. \nWe create a [00:30:00] bullseye diagram\, a map of relationship building that you need to do in order to have power to act on the things you care about. And at the heart of that bullseye is your core team\, the people that you trust the most\, who are in the core of your group that you care about working on. So I’m working on helping young farmers get access to land today when land has become so costly that young people cannot access the ability to farm. \nWe have a core team of people\, about eight of us that are at the core of that. And so if I was doing a relational map\, I’d be writing the names of the eight people that are in our core. And then there’s a second ring\, and that second ring are the people we want to begin initially doing the conversations with that we think will be really important to broaden out our base of associations and strengthen the breadth of our community [00:31:00] around this mission of accessing land. \nAnd then there’s a third ring\, which would probably be people that we would like to have\, not have to have\, but like to have\, which is a third ring that we would be building of all the associations that we wanna tap into. \nAnd then finally\, to your point\, are a ring of what I would call the resistors\, or the people who we have to build relationships with\, because it’s important we not ignore them because it’s not going away. Better to face into it\, find out why they feel the way they do about what we do. So we do one-on-ones with them\, just like we do with the second\, third\, and fourth rings. \nMaking sense at all? You’ve got to face into them because in their resistance\, there is possibility for compromise on our vision\, because they may have some reason why they [00:32:00] feel the way they do that we need to think about if we’re going to fundamentally make a difference around the topic we care about. \nSo I think you quench with the resistors in the best sense of that. And sometimes because you did that\, you are at least neutralizing them. At the best\, they may come toward you\, and at the worst\, you know who they are. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. So\, something you were talking about is compromise. And I think sometimes that word is used as almost like a negative bad thing. \nLike\, “Oh\, they’re a compromiser. They don’t stand for their values.” \nHow do you see compromise playing into this idea of community action and community change? And what would you say to people who think that compromise is kind of inherently not living up to your values? \nTOM MOSGALLER: Excellent question. I think we’re living in a time right [00:33:00] now where we’re continually being pushed\, particularly by electoral politics\, into a polarized environment in which you have to join a tribe or a clan\, right? \nAnd it’s getting harder and harder to find the middle ground and to find tables. It’s about us building enough power to get to the table so we can get into a dialogue to compromise. And all too often\, we’re not appreciating the table. We become brittle\, we become polarized\, and we lose the capacity. And when I go into towns to talk with people\, or to more importantly\, listen to people\, I find that\, God\, in the last 10 days in about six meetings\, we never talked electoral politics. \nAnd I know some of them are rabid blue and others are rabid red. But around the issue of cleaning up the creek or making [00:34:00] sure we got good daycare facilities in town\, or making sure we refurbish our library or have the capacity to take on this power line\, no one talks party. Everybody talks about self-interest. \nSelf-interest\, not selfish interest\, self-interest\, meaning I know who I am. I know what’s important for me around this issue. And I have heard you\, and we’re going to find common ground to act on this together. That is a lost art that only can begin from the bottom if we’re going to refurbish democracy as it was originally intended. \nIt’s always about compromise. And what we’re going through now is not unique. We’ve gone through it. The history of democracy allows us the right to do that. We are blessed to have that chance. Authoritarian people in authoritarian countries [00:35:00] don’t have the chance to do that compromising. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: You know\, addressing community issues\, whether it’s a big community issue or a small community issue\, really does require us to work together no matter how we feel about other things out in the world. \nWe still need to work together with the other people in the community to address these community issues. And I think this is a good point to kind of\, in our last few minutes\, talk about what’s a small first step for someone. And I feel like I know the answer to this\, but I’ll ask it anyway. What’s a small first step for – \nTOM MOSGALLER: Jessica\, what do you think the first step would be? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, I think it’s like going and connecting with someone who either feels the same as you or different\, or both\, right? Going and connecting with people and learning. Are there others who\, you know\, feel the same way you do when someone doesn’t feel the same way as you about that issue? What are they feeling? \nWhat is the reason behind [00:36:00] that? And really learn to kind of develop some understanding and empathy for each other and continue the conversation. \nSo that’s kind of what I feel like the answer is close to the answer would’ve been\, but do you agree that a first small step for someone who wants to help their community but feels unsure where to begin\, that that’s maybe it? \nTOM MOSGALLER: Erin\, what do you think? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Oh\, um\, I actually think the first thing I would do is talk to myself\, which sounds maybe silly\, but like\, what do I value? What do I care about? What’s my vision? What do I want to see? Yeah. \nAnd then I would go have a conversation with someone and say\, “Hey\, here’s what I’m seeing around me. Here’s what I would love to see. What do you think about that? What would you love to see?” And then keep doing that. \nTOM MOSGALLER: So thank you\, both of you\, for your willingness to share that. And Erin\, I appreciate that you raised the issue of compromise\, because I’m just finishing an article that is the first article given to us when [00:37:00] we start training as community organizers. \nAnd it’s called The Art of Being Unprincipled. And it’s not that you should not have a set of things that are your principles\, but they should be on an elastic tether so that you have the will\, the ability not to be brittle\, but to change as you go out and do those conversations. Because you become more rounded. \nIt’s like getting older and getting wiser. If you listen\, you will all of a sudden\, “I never thought about it that way.” You know? So you don’t get locked into a position and then freeze. And that’s what’s happening too much now. And so we bang up against each other rather than having the capacity to share different views\, find common ground\, actually have dialogues in order to make a difference. \nThat’s what democracy allows us to [00:38:00] do. And I feel so pleased that we have that opportunity to do that. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nTOM MOSGALLER: So if I were doing it\, in the book\, we put six universals essential to relationship building. And one of them is you build relationships before you need them. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nTOM MOSGALLER: To me\, that is so hard for people. They wait till there’s a crisis\, a housing crisis\, right? In their neighborhood or something. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: A natural disaster. \nTOM MOSGALLER: Right. A disaster. And then you’re trying to scramble. And I’m always thinking about\, how do you build a fitness program in your community over time that gives you the capacity to be able to act when you need to act on something and not scramble every time out of crisis\, right? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nTOM MOSGALLER: In order to make a difference. In DeForest\, just north of here\, I’ve had nothing to do with it\, but I’ve watched it. [00:39:00] fluoride in the water. Big issue. I mean\, there was a back and forth\, you know? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nTOM MOSGALLER: They pulled fluoride out of the water. And then people organized and somehow came to some compromise and they got fluoride back in the water. \nIt took three years maybe. I mean\, watching it from a distance. I don’t know who was involved\, but I give them\, you know\, effort for figuring that out. But then along comes the AI center that’s going to be built there in their community. They had a fitness program that they could get together and move more quickly. \nThat’s why we build fire departments rather than everybody trying to grab a bucket when there’s a fire in the hood\, you know? You’ve got to do it before you need it. And that’s the hardest thing for most of us\, to have the discipline to build networks before you need them. So there you go. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Hey\, I’ve been preaching that for [00:40:00] over a decade. \nYes. I completely agree. \nTOM MOSGALLER: Well\, it definitely ain’t easy\, right? I mean\, our day jobs\, all of the things going on in our life\, to build in time every month to go out and do one or two conversations with strangers or with neighbors isn’t easy. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I think we’re so wired that it has to be around a particular task or project to\, like\, have to do something or have to have something productive out of it that I think that’s part of what gets in the way of us just being like\, “Hey\, who are we together?” \nTOM MOSGALLER: Yeah. I mean\, what you’re basically saying is\, “What would I talk to them about?” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nTOM MOSGALLER: Right? Yeah. And\, and in fact\, all you’ve got to do is say\, “How’s it going?” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nTOM MOSGALLER: “How’s it going? What’s happening? What’s important to you\, to your family?” And man\, it just opens up. I just think about this all the time. How many times in your life has somebody taken a half hour and just sat down with you and listened? And just said\, “Tell me [00:41:00] more about that. How did that happen? What happened when that happened? How’d you get that resolved?” \nI mean\, to demonstrate that kind of curiosity about someone else in a meaningful way is a real discipline in the best sense of discipline. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Well\, thank you so much. I feel like this was such an invigorating conversation\, and I am leaving with a lot of things to think about. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I have so many more questions I want to ask\, but – \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Maybe we can have Tom back for those. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That’d be great. Well\, Tom\, thank you so much for the work that you do\, and thank you so much for joining us. Really\, really enjoyed this conversation. \nTom Mosgaller is a community builder\, teacher\, leader\, and Vietnam-era veteran who supports communities in pulling together through the power of relationships. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That’s it for this episode. Thank you so much for joining us. If this conversation got you thinking about how communities can pull together\, we hope you’ll share it with a colleague\, partner\, or neighbor who’s doing that work too. You can find more [00:42:00] resources from today’s episode in our show notes. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: We’d like to thank our announcer\, Kaylin Gobel-Mathis\, Maggie Lucas\, and Joyce Vaughn for their help with marketing\, and Nathan Grimm\, who composed and performed all the music you hear on the podcast. \nWe hope you’ll listen again soon. Until then\, keep practicing. \nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/stronger-together-a-change-framework-for-community-action/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
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DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260820T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260820T170000
DTSTAMP:20260820T152730Z
CREATED:20260820T100058Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260820T152730Z
UID:10001794-1787205600-1787245200@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Pressure Relief: What Cooperatives Can (and Can't) Do for Child Care
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]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[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 34) \nWhen child care is hard to find and harder to afford\, some communities aren’t waiting for a fix.  \nKristin Forde Hurckes of the University of Wisconsin-Madison Extension Center for Cooperative explains how cooperative models are helping – and where they hit their limits. \nKristin Forde Hurckes is part of the team of Cooperative Development Specialists at the UW Center who supports worker cooperatives in rural community\, with an emphasis on worker cooperative conversions. \nShe emphasizes the importance of both individual and collective commitment to the significant cultural and organizational change that is required to shift toward democratic and participatory decision making. \nKristin enjoys learning about the many creative ways cooperatives organize and structure themselves; and developing effective formats for group processes. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nUW Madison Center for Cooperatives \nChildcare Cooperative Resources\nCooperative Development Services\nICA Group Childcare Resources\nEnergy Capital Cooperative Childcare\nNestling House\n\nConnect with us! \n\n\n\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: [00:00:00] Hi\, welcome to Practicing Connection. I’m Erin Carlson-Rivera. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And I’m Jessica Beckendorf. Today\, we’re talking about what happens when communities stop waiting for the childcare system to fix itself and start building something different. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: When childcare is hard to find and even harder to afford\, the pressure shows up everywhere\, within families\, employers\, providers\, and entire communities. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Our guest today is Kristen Forde-Hurckes from the University of Wisconsin-Madison Extension Center for Cooperatives. Kristen works with communities across the country to explore how cooperative models\, especially worker cooperatives\, can be part of the solution and what it really takes to make those models work. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Kristen brings a deep background in cooperative development\, including years as a member of Union CAB in Madison\, where she helped lead member education\, conflict resolution systems\, and governance work. She’s also been involved in building broader cooperative networks and [00:01:00] bringing a strong focus on the cultural shifts required for shared ownership and participatory decision-making. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Hi\, Kristen. Thank you so much for joining us on Practicing Connection. I am so excited to talk about what cooperatives can and can’t do for childcare\, and what leaders and community members should know before jumping in. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Hi\, thanks so much for having me. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, let’s kick it off by talking a little bit about cooperatives. \nYou work at the intersection of cooperatives and community economic development. For listeners who may not be familiar with your center’s work\, what drew you to childcare as an area of focus? Or you could even more broadly tell us about what the center does and how it’s been involved in childcare. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Sure. So the UW Center for Cooperatives has been around for a long time and does research and education and outreach to promote the cooperative model across sectors. Folks at the center have worked on childcare in the past\, but we are [00:02:00] facing a pretty significant crisis\, I would say\, across the country\, and especially here in Wisconsin. \nAnd so our executive director\, Courtney Berner\, was in conversation with a national leader\, and they were thinking about an example called Energy Capital Childcare Cooperative that had some success with employers who came together. One of the primary employers is a cooperative\, a utility cooperative\, and they experimented with a model where employers led the initiative. \nTheir question was\, “What was their special sauce? What made this work?” And\, “Why aren’t there more?” \nAnd so that really was the beginning of this initiative. I have my own background in childcare also. I’ve spent about half of my professional life doing some kind of childcare. So it was a good match for me to take this on. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So when you’re talking with childcare [00:03:00] providers or directors or community leaders about what’s broken with the current system\, what do you hear most consistently? \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Well\, I do think it depends on who you are asking. When we talk to families\, of course\, the primary thing that’s broken is affordability. \nFamilies are unable to afford childcare\, even subsidized childcare\, really. Most childcare isn’t subsidized enough. And so families are unable to afford even the true cost of childcare. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That doesn’t surprise me\, but I’m curious\, does availability also come up with families? \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Availability does come up\, but I would say that affordability is the primary concern. \nBut there are wait lists across the region with centers. And if you were to talk to a director of a center\, they would tell you that the labor shortage is the [00:04:00] primary concern. There are centers that are operating across the state at less than 75% capacity because we have a labor shortage. To fill that labor shortage\, we would need a very large number of new childcare employees to fill that shortage. \nAnd so if you were to talk to childcare professionals\, the primary issue would be wages. Childcare providers\, meaning childcare professionals\, the staff\, they’re highly educated. Most of them have some post-high school level of education\, and they are in the bottom 2% of earners. And most childcare centers aren’t able to provide any kind of benefits. \nAnd so\, you know\, people just are not choosing that career anymore because it’s\, they can’t afford [00:05:00] childcare. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: So yeah\, again\, I think it depends on who you’re talking to. But I think for me\, after looking at the problem as a whole\, the issue is funding. There is a significant gap between the operational costs of childcare and the revenue. \nThose expenses\, the expenses in a childcare business are fixed. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: About 70%\, 67 to 70% of those costs are labor. And those are regulated\, right? The state regulates how many staff you need for the group of children that you’re providing care for\, and you can’t adjust that. And so those are fixed costs. \nReal estate is the other biggest part of the expenses. But there is a gap in what the revenue is and what the expenses are. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So you’ve probably started to get into this a little bit\, but I’d love to [00:06:00] unpack something I’ve heard you say before\, that the childcare market doesn’t work like other markets. You started to describe what the market looks like\, but what does this mean in practice? \nLike\, why can’t the sector just fix itself through normal supply and demand? \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Demand\, I would say\, is higher than supply\, right? But supply is labor. When we’re talking about supply\, we’re talking about the childcare professionals who are providing the labor\, providing the childcare. \nAnd the way that I’ve started thinking about this is that there’s sort of this economic pyramid. And in order for the economy to be held up\, we rely on childcare\, because our economy is depending on both parents to be in the labor force. That requires childcare. \nAnd as I mentioned before\, our childcare providers are in the bottom of the earners\, but they’re holding the entire economy up in some ways.[00:07:00] And so that in combination with the regulations means that this whole idea of supply and demand\, well\, you have a certain demands\, you have a certain number of children that require care. And you must have then a certain number of teachers\, right? So there’s no way to adjust that formula unless our legislators change the regulations. \nBut those regulations are in place to ensure quality care for our children\, which\, you know\, plenty of evidence shows that our brains are\, it’s like the most precious time for brain development. And so that quality care\, it has long-lasting implications. \nThere’s tons of studies that show that children who receive quality care in those early years do better in their future education. They’re far less likely to [00:08:00] be incarcerated. They are far less likely to suffer from addiction\, things like that. So those regulations are paired with these evidence-based practices that show we need more adults in interactions with young children. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That makes so much sense. It really doesn’t – it’s not a market that works like other markets. That was such a great explanation of that. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So one of the ways we’ve been thinking about how to approach this conversation was\, could we introduce the cooperative model as a way to ease pressure on the childcare issue? But cooperatives can come in several different forms\, such as parent-led\, worker-owned\, or employer-assisted. \nFor communities trying to address a childcare shortage\, how do you help them figure out which model best fits their situation? \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: It depends very much on who’s at the table\, right? Like\, who are the stakeholders who are engaging? I can provide some [00:09:00] examples maybe that will best illustrate this. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: There’s a group of folks in Viroqua who came to the center looking for some support\, because the owner of a childcare center is ready to retire\, and would like to make sure that this childcare center stays in place and that the employees get to continue doing their good work. And so they want to transition to a worker-owned cooperative. \nBut a childcare business – I mean\, the margins are just\, like\, razor thin\, right? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mmhmm. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: So in order to facilitate that type of conversion\, there needs to be a boost in capital. Essentially\, in a conversion\, the business is buying itself\, right? So the business is buying itself from the former owners\, and the business wouldn’t be able to carry that debt. \nAnd so\, because that particular [00:10:00] childcare center has community support\, they’re going to be what is considered a ‘multi-stakeholder cooperative\,’ because there are community members who are also equally as interested in making sure that this very important childcare center remains in place in their community. \nAnd so they are raising capital through community memberships. They also have gotten creative with the real estate issue. So a community member has purchased that real estate in order to make sure that it stays affordable to the business\, but that the business itself\, that the employees don’t have to finance the purchase also of the real estate\, right? \nAnd so that’s an example where\, you know\, it’s very situational\, but they brought in the stakeholders that were interested. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And any community member could buy into it. It doesn’t have to be someone who has children or has – \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Right. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: [00:11:00] Yeah. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Yeah. And so they have\, they’re engaging some of their cooperative employers that are part of the community. \nThey’re engaging community leaders who are part of the community. And parents and former parents who have benefited from the childcare center as well. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. Very cool. Well\, let’s dig into an example you brought up at the top of our conversation. The Energy Capital Cooperative Childcare in Hazen\, North Dakota. \nSo you said that eight employers came together to open a center that now serves dozens of kids. Walk us through how that came together. You started to tell us a little bit at the top of the hour\, but how did that come together? What was the catalyst? Tell us everything you can about that. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Yeah. So there’s\, it’s a really cool example of a community\, a very rural community who was experiencing what so many rural [00:12:00] communities are experiencing\, which is a childcare desert. \nAnd the utility cooperative there\, actually\, one of the employees who engages with customers and members brought the idea\, just in her mind\, though\, “Well\, there should be\, we should have a cooperative solution.” I mean\, we know that our employees are impacted by the lack of childcare. We know our business is impacted by the lack of childcare because if employees can’t come to work or an employee’s peer is unable to come to work\, there are all these ripple effects within our workplaces if there’s a lack of childcare. \nAnd so she was actually given the green light by her workplace to spend work time developing a network of employers who also wanted to address the issue. And so she went door-knocking. She went calling on other [00:13:00] employers saying\, “Hey\, you know\, how do you feel about this? You must experience this difficulty as well. Are you\, you know\, is this troubling for you?” \nAnd she ended up with\, I believe it was nine employers who were sitting around the table for a certain amount of time\, who were committed to coming up with a solution together. It ended up being a non-profit. It’s not a cooperative\, but their bylaws read like a cooperative. \nThey’re a non-profit that has community members and employer members who then also are part of the governance of the cooperative. So these employers who were at the table at the beginning continue to govern the childcare center. And they contributed dollars upfront and they continue to contribute dollars. \nSo\, you know\, that means that that gap between expenses and revenue that I’m talking about\, sort of that subsidy that all childcare [00:14:00] centers really need is provided now by a group of employers in their community. And they continue to operate\, not without challenges\, but they do continue to operate. \nAnd yeah\, this was sort of the impetus of our looking into this. Like\, “How could we either duplicate this or improve upon it?” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: It sounds like even though this is a non-profit\, it has the soul of a cooperative. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: That’s a great way to – Yeah. Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So what were you finding? You said that you were kind of studying this particular example\, even though it’s not specifically a cooperative. \nLike what makes it work? Can we do it somewhere else? And what have you found out about that? \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Yeah\, really good question. I mean\, I would say there were some really positive sides\, and some challenging sides. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: On the positive side\, all of these different [00:15:00] types of employers came together and figured out how they could specifically contribute to the solution. \nAnd each employer had different ways that they could contribute. It wasn’t identical for each employer. Some employers were not able to provide a financial contribution because of the nature of their business. The non-profit medical center couldn’t provide a direct financial contribution\, but they could provide their custodial services. \nAnd so that’s what they did. The school district provided meals\, a meal program that was shared. And so there were these interesting creative ways of putting together both financial contributions according to what that employer could provide\, and these other in-kind donations that made it work. The other interesting thing is that the real [00:16:00] estate\, as I mentioned\, that’s the other big expense for most childcare centers. \nAnd in this case\, a church that was closing\, they were either closing or moving out of their building. They sold their building at a very low cost. And South Dakota has a public bank. It’s a state-owned bank. And they had this really interesting program where they could provide a zero-interest loan. And so the real estate cost was also this interesting combination of public/cooperative/private slash\, you know\, sort of community efforts coming together. \nSome of the more challenging pieces are the employers. So there are representatives from each employer on the board\, and they are the governing body of the childcare center. And\, you know\, as you sort of alluded to before\, [00:17:00] that\, like\, the business plan\, the financial model\, the business struggles can’t be addressed with just\, like\, looking at supply and demand or when thinking about what the demand is for. \nWe’re talking about humans. We’re not manufacturing something. And there is a lack of understanding of how childcare businesses run. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Function. Yeah. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: The toll that childcare takes on providers. You know\, there’s enough of a sort of distance between those governing and those operating it in terms of understanding that that’s a challenge. \nAnd I believe it’s one that needs to be\, you know\, in future models\, does need to be addressed. And in fact\, I’ll say that the childcare cooperative that is forming in Viroqua\, they are going to ensure that over half of the board [00:18:00] members are workers. So they’re people who work there. Other members can also serve on the board\, but they’ll never be in the majority\, which ensures that the people who are doing the work are the ones who are informing the decisions. \nI think the other challenge\, and it’s related\, is that there’s a misunderstanding that childcare businesses that are starting up\, they don’t just need this infusion of cash in the beginning. And then eventually\, they’re going to kind of level out after five years and be profitable\, like many businesses are\, right? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: They aren’t pilot programs. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: No. Right. And they’re not like other sort of new businesses\, where you expect to operate with a loss in the first five years\, and then eventually you reach that point where you’re profitable. That’s just never the case with childcare. Childcare is always going to need some form of subsidy.[00:19:00]\nUnless you have a center that has\, I mean\, it’s been modeled out to show\, once you reach 100 children\, right\, you scale up to that size\, that’s where you begin to see the numbers work out. That’s a big center. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. That’s like a huge real estate space. That’s tons of employees. That’s a lot. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Right. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. Yeah. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, let’s talk a little bit about childcare workers. And I love your example of how in Viroqua\, and that’s Viroqua\, Wisconsin\, we’ve been talking about\, that they’re looking at putting some of the folks who are kind of in the operational pieces of the business on the board. And that’s great. \nChildcare workers though are also famously underpaid. And I’m wondering if the cooperative model helps to change that a little bit. Like\, did that happen in Hazen? Is it happening in Viroqua or other places? And is workforce compensation something that co-ops are better positioned to address? Or maybe that’s [00:20:00] too complex of a question\, but – \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: I don’t think it’s too complex of a question. I wish it was just a simple yes. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mmhmm. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: But I think I’ve already sort of painted this picture that\, you know\, the general sort of the revenue and expenses just mean there’s very little to work with\, and that’s with low wages. There’s a worker cooperative in Milwaukee called Nestling House. They’re a childcare center that also converted. \nAnd I had a long conversation with their director who is somebody who moved from being a childcare worker for many\, many years\, and now is the director of Nestling House\, the worker cooperative. And all the struggles of operating and working in a childcare center remain. But I asked her\, given that’s true\, does a worker cooperative make conditions [00:21:00] better? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Like conditions for the workforce. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: For the workers\, you know? Yeah. Does it make a difference that you’re decision-makers\, that you get to create policy around workplace practices? And she said\, “Yes\, absolutely.” \nSo I think there’s definitely something to say for worker cooperatives specifically. In a field like childcare\, where it’s low wages\, very hard work\, and generally speaking\, undervalued\, right? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: To have the ability to have a\, not just a voice\, but you get to advise\, right? You actually are the decision-makers. That makes a big difference for people. In fact\, my colleague\, Yanni Lang\, just put out a paper on the impact of worker cooperatives on workers’ mental health. And there [00:22:00] is evidence that there is a positive impact. \nAnd as a childcare worker myself\, I can say that I can imagine there being some relief in having the ability to decide some things. I say all that\, and will also say that in a parallel industry in home care cooperatives. Which don’t have the same level of regulation. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: As the centers\, right? \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: As childcare. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Yeah. Home care\, you know\, providing care for seniors or people with disabilities in their homes\, there’s less regulation\, and there’s less real estate\, right? So the business model is a little bit easier. Not much\, though. However\, still\, caregivers are very under-paid and with very few benefits. \nWe have an example of a caregiver cooperative in Wisconsin called Cooperative Care. And they have been known\, and across the nation\, actually\, they’re [00:23:00] known for providing slightly higher wages\, providing benefits\, and that kind of thing. So\, again\, I’m speaking mostly about worker cooperatives\, which I think makes sense\, right? \nBecause your workers are going to generally do what they can to improve the lives of workers\, including wages. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: What do you find is the hardest part of getting employers to say yes to something like a co-op? What objections do you tend to hear\, and what would move them forward despite objections? \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Well\, full transparency\, I have not had those conversations with them – that type of conversation with employers yet. \nThat’s sort of next in our timeline. We’re hosting a webinar\, and we’re going to speak with employers regionally about the issue and begin engaging. I will say that in our conversations with Energy Capital\, I’m repeating myself a little bit\, but from [00:24:00] their point of view\, first of all\, you know\, the employers didn’t want to own the center. \nSo there was no desire by employers themselves to take on ownership\, right? There’s also a difficulty understanding the need in perpetuity\, right? That this isn’t just\, like\, “Let us help you get started\, and then you can take it from there.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: So really understanding the financial model and the business model and the need for subsidy. \nA subsidy needs to be there in perpetuity. Where that’s coming from is the question right now. Wisconsin’s about to face\, well\, the end of bridge funding that was put into place during COVID. And there are lots of predictions that there’s going to be closures\, even more childcare staff shortages\, [00:25:00] higher tuition. \nAnd so that need for subsidy has just increased. Our state has reduced its current level of subsidizing. So that piece for me is what needs the greatest amount of understanding is the business model. The numbers. Why the numbers will never work out\, right? \nIt’s not about childcare professionals doing a better job of running the business. It just will never quite work out without that subsidy. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: It seems like in the childcare industry\, you know\, if you build it\, they will come\, but that is not a recipe for success\, necessarily. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Well\, if you build the childcare center\, the parents will come\, you know? Yes. There’s supply\, but without providing living wages – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mmhmm. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: The [00:26:00] childcare staff won’t come. And I would say\, quite frankly\, that is our biggest issue. You know\, we’re expecting childcare staff to live in poverty with the average wage being less than $15 an hour. They can go out and work at Target or another retail shop. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: For more. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: For more. And doing what I would argue is far less stressful work. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. Yeah\, I was working with a childcare group. It was a group of people coming together in a community trying to figure out ways they wanted to work together to address some of the pressures. And I remember telling them\, because I don’t have children\, I’ve said this before on this podcast\, but I do have pets though. \nAnd I remember I was looking into pet care for me to go away for a week. And the cost for pet care for someone stopping by twice a day or even staying at my [00:27:00] house was more than childcare. And no one’s teaching my pet anything. Like\, there’s teaching happening in childcare. There’s\, you know\, there are educational things going on. \nThere are people who have certain certifications and they know how to teach young children things. No one’s teaching my pets anything. And yet the cost was higher for a week of pet care. \nAnd I told them about this\, and they’re like\, “Yeah\, this is why we can’t keep workers because we can pay those prices.” \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Yeah. Well\, and we’re\, you know\, in order for a childcare business to succeed\, we’re depending on families to pay tuition. And families can only pay what they can afford. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Right? So that’s the whole\, again\, back to that whole business model. It’s like\, well\, that means that childcare centers\, they’re only going to set their tuition at what [00:28:00] families can afford. \nWhich oftentimes means there’s that gap. And always means that childcare workers are going to get paid less. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Childcare workers and the center directors and owners\, I see them go without quite a bit. They’re not making hand over fist profits here. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Absolutely. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So we talked a little bit about some of the ways that the cooperative model can address some of the pressure. \nBut in our other conversations\, you’ve been pretty clear that it doesn’t solve the underlying problem\, that more money is needed. But in terms of relieving some of that pressure\, where does the co-op model start to hit that ceiling where it’s not relieving enough pressure anymore? \nIs it strictly with wages and affordability? Is that pretty much the buck stops there\, literally? \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Yeah. I think that’s it. We can certainly talk about ways that [00:29:00] communities and the cooperative community can be the ones who come together and figure out a mutual fund that’s helping fill that gap. And that’s where cooperatives thrive\, is that cooperatives have always historically come together and been formed to address a need that’s not otherwise being met\, right? \nAnd it’s a social need\, a cultural need\, a financial need. One of the challenges with childcare is for us as communities\, as however large you think in terms of community\, but as a society\, to understand that quality childcare is a common good\, right? That we all benefit from quality childcare\, which means that perhaps we all contribute to the financial abilities [00:30:00] of childcare providers. \nUltimately\, we would have them consider that a public good and they would be publicly funded. And I do think that\, you know\, there are many examples of cooperatives who also do that advocacy work. Energy Capital Cooperative that we’ve spoken of\, they’re going to their state capitol\, still advocating because they still don’t have what they need to pay their childcare workers. \nAnd as you mentioned\, I’m glad that you mentioned that – the administrators\, all of them are underpaid. There’s another example of a worker-owned childcare center in Pennsylvania who devotes a day every quarter for their workers to go to the Capitol and advocate for child credits. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Wisconsin Early Childhood Association is putting together a collaboration of employers to do advocacy work [00:31:00] on behalf of the business community in Wisconsin. \nAnd so ultimately\, for me this is just me speaking\, but that has to be top on our list of solutions. And I do think that cooperatives have\, you know\, when we talk about the special sauce\, it’s a network of people with shared values. \nThere are seven principles of cooperatives\, and one of those principles is ‘care for the community.’ Another is ‘cooperation among cooperatives.’ And those principles you can find on the walls of cooperatives around the world\, they are highly revered and they do connect our community. \nAnd so there is power in our ecosystem to address a huge issue like this together\, but there also has to be some real understanding of the childcare sector and what makes this particular [00:32:00] sector so tough to address without the contributions\, without an expectation to get something specific in return. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. So pivoting a little bit\, many of our listeners work in military communities\, either on or near installations\, in rural\, and also in semi-rural areas. Does the co-op model translate well in those contexts? And are there any unique considerations for co-ops that might serve specifically military families? \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: I don’t know of any specific co-ops that serve military families. I would say that the cooperative model is perfectly aligned with the sensibility of a military family\, right? And the military community. \nAnd that cooperatives are first and foremost democratic institutions. And so when I was first pondering this [00:33:00] question\, I just thought\, you know\, this is what we ask our military to defend\, is our ability to practice democracy. \nAnd cooperatives are on the most micro level. They are democratic institutions\, which I think is really cool. And so the cooperative governing systems – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mmhmm. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Have lots of rules and policies and procedures that follow our sort of democratic governing systems. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. So they’re familiar to a lot of people too. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: That would be familiar. Yeah. It would be interesting to develop solutions together that utilize\, right\, that sort of those fundamental democratic systems. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, that makes a lot of sense. It seems though\, you know\, given what you just said\, that anyone could start investigating this kind of solution for their area. \nSo if someone [00:34:00] listening is maybe a program manager or a family services coordinator\, or maybe they’re just a community leader\, you know\, maybe they’re a non-profit leader\, maybe they are a council member or something who’s watching childcare access deteriorate in their area or access or affordability\, the workforce\, right? Watching that deteriorate. \nAnd they’re not a business owner or a policymaker. What’s a realistic first step they could take toward exploring a cooperative model to ease some of that pressure? \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: I would say just begin having conversations with the people who they are already in conversation with\, right? \nAnytime I do any of this work\, it’s just about having the conversation over and over again until you find the people where there’s a spark. And eventually\, you have the business owners. Eventually you have the policymakers. Especially in rural communities\, I find that we’re all just [00:35:00] like one – there’s one person between\, you know – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Uh-huh. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Us and that policymaker\, the person who’s on city council\, and that person is connected to the county\, and that person’s connected to the state\, right? And same within our business communities. \nAnd so just starting the conversation\, talking to fellow parents\, neighbors\, and looking for the connections that we do have with the people who have influence. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Just start talking. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Just start talking. Just start talking. You’re – It won’t take long until you find something. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Bang the drum a little bit. Like\, “Hey\, guys\, this is a problem. I’m noticing it.” Yeah. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Yeah. Yes. I love it. Yes. And\, you know\, talking about it from different points of view is helpful\, right? \nSo the opening question\, “What are you hearing the most\, depending on who you’re talking to?” So talking about it from those different vantage points\, I think also is going to help [00:36:00] find the connections. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Are there any resources\, toolkits\, or technical assistance pathways through your center or with partner organizations that communities can access? \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: We don’t have toolkits\, but we are very accessible at the UW Center for Cooperatives. And so reaching out to any of us through the information request portal\, you will hear back from any of us at that point. An organization that we are working with on this project is Cooperative Development Services. \nThey are out of Minnesota and are also doing this research. They service Minnesota\, Wisconsin\, and Iowa. ICA Group is an organization on the East Coast\, but they work nationally\, and they have done a lot of childcare work as well. Come to similar conclusions that we have. Their emphasis is also on worker cooperatives. \n[00:37:00] But they’re really engaging in questions around real estate. How can we get creative within our community around real estate to at least shrink that part of the pie.. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, not everyone can sell frozen tundra like the Packers did for theirs. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Right. Yeah. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: We’ll make sure to include a link to the Center for Cooperatives\, and some of these other organizations that you’ve mentioned that you work with. \nBut I’d like to switch a little bit to kind of thinking ahead. You spend a lot of time in rooms where people are trying to solve this problem. Where are the areas that you find reasons for hope? Because of what you’ve said\, I know that you likely haven’t seen it anywhere where the problem’s solved. It’s done. It’s solved. Great. We can model this. We can follow this model\, right? \nSo where are the areas that you can find some hope? Like maybe it’s some genuine evidence that things can get better? \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: You know\, I’ve [00:38:00] referred to a couple of examples that illustrate both the challenge\, but also\, I would say\, do illustrate hope. \nI mean\, you know\, Energy Capital is an example of people putting in blood\, sweat\, and tears to make that happen. And while there is still a lot of struggle\, they’re still there. Not only the center\, but the people. I mean\, a good number of the people who started it are still there. And to me\, that speaks to some success. \nSimilarly\, the childcare center I referred to in Milwaukee\, the Nestling House\, it’s a similar story. I mean\, the devotion of childcare workers\, and the love that they have for their work does give me hope. \nAnd in Viroqua\, one of the childcare [00:39:00] workers\, an employee who\, the childcare staff\, she’s the one who came to me to begin with. She’s leading the cause\, right? The center director is now facilitating the entire conversion. And a whole community is rallying around it because they value the program. \nAnd again\, the workers love it too. I think at the heart of it for me is the people who choose caregiving as a field of work. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mmhmm. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Their hearts are so big. They have so much passion for teaching young children. I mean\, imagine being in a room full of\, like\, I don’t know\, say 15\, you know\, zero to three-year-olds. Like\, that’s – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: No\, I don’t want to imagine that. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: It’s a lot. Anybody who has raised a child and knows what it’s like to have [00:40:00] one two-year-old or one three-year-old or maybe\, you know\, two or three\, you know\, I know many\, but it’s a lot. \nAnd the childcare staff who do that work\, they love it. They love it. I mean\, across the board too\, right? Like the people who are just fiercely advocating at every level\, the folks at Wisconsin Early Childhood Association are amazing. It’s not easy work because there is this lack of understanding. You know\, as I mentioned before\, these childcare workers\, they’re holding up our economy for us\, right? \nAnd that’s always been the case. It’s just that for a long time\, the childcare providers stayed home\, and now they’re not. And so we have to pay people to do this work. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: So I think there is hope. I think there’s hope because we have the people who love to do this work. We need to value them and figure it out. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: What is a question you [00:41:00] wish more people were asking about childcare that they’re not even thinking about? \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Well\, this does feel redundant\, but that’s okay. Because I do think it’s really important. We’ve all heard the question\, like\, “Are the kids okay?” And I think that is really an essential question to be asking. \nBut I think we need to be asking\, “Are the people who care for our kids okay?” I think that’s it. Because if they’re not okay\, our kids aren’t gonna be okay. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Wow. Thank you so much for the work you do\, and thank you for joining us\, Kristen. \nKRISTIN FORDE HURCKES: Thank you. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Kristen Forde-Hurckes is a cooperative development specialist with the UW Madison Extension Center for Cooperatives\, where she supports worker cooperative development in rural communities with a focus on cooperative conversions and participatory governance. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That’s it for this episode. Thank you so much for joining us. If this conversation got you thinking about how [00:42:00] your community is responding to childcare challenges\, we hope you’ll share it with a colleague or a partner who’s in that work with you. You can find more resources from the Center for Cooperatives in our show notes\, along with links to some of the examples we talked about today. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: We’d like to thank our announcer\, Kaitlyn Gobel-Mathis\, Maggie Lucas\, and Joyce Vaughn for their help with marketing\, and Nathan Grimm\, who composed and performed all the music you hear on the podcast. We hope you’ll listen again soon. Until then\, keep practicing. \nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3. \n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/pressure-relief-what-cooperatives-can-and-cant-do-for-childcare/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260813T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260813T170000
DTSTAMP:20260904T211730Z
CREATED:20260813T100044Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260904T211730Z
UID:10001792-1786600800-1786640400@oneop.org
SUMMARY:The Connective Tissue: What Statewide Military Family Coordination Looks Like
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]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[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 33) \nMany military families don’t live near a large installation.  \nJennifer Holliday\, Alabama’s first Military Family Liaison shares what it takes to coordinate support for geographically dispersed families and what any service provider can do to build that connective tissue in their own community. \nJennifer Holliday serves as the first Military Family Liaison for the State of Alabama. She is a military spouse with over 21 years of military life experience with her Army husband Doc Holliday\, including 7 wartime deployments and 9 PCS moves while raising their three children. They now live on the “retiree side\,” in Huntsville. \nHer past military spouse leadership roles centered around Family Readiness Group Leader and Advisor positions\, including the 3d SFG(A) Headquarters and 3ID Headquarters. Jennifer was also the Vice President of the Stan the Man Foundation from 2006-2010\, helping the organization continue and expand its mission to support military families in need at Fort Bragg. \nSince moving to Alabama in 2016 for Doc to serve as the Redstone Arsenal Garrison Commander\, Jennifer has cultivated an expansive network across the local military spouse\, civilian\, Federal\, and Veteran communities. She has volunteered in a variety of roles across the community and continues to serve as the Communications Director for the Semper Fi Community Task Force. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nThe Heroes Welcome Initiative website\nHeroes Welcome LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/alabama-heroes-welcome-initiative\nHeroes Welcome on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AlabamaHeroesWelcomeInitiative\nJennifer on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferholliday1\n\nConnect with us! \n\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]JESSICA BECKENDORF: [00:00:00] Hi\, and welcome to Practicing Connection. I’m Jessica Beckendorf. Today\, we’re talking about what it looks like when states step more directly into supporting military families\, and how coordination\, connection\, and shared responsibility actually play out on the ground. \nAnd I’m really glad to have two of my one-off colleagues joining me as guest co-host today. I have Kim Smith and Jenny Rae here. Kim Smith is the spouse employment program coordinator at OneOp\, where she designs professional development for those serving military families with more than 25 years of experience in higher education and a focus on access and opportunity. \nAnd Jenny Rae is an Assistant Professor of Practice at the University of Arizona and the incoming principal investigator for the OneOp Military Spouse Employment Team. Her work focuses on military spouse employment\, career continuity\, and workforce mobility. And she brings both research expertise [00:01:00] and lived experience as a military spouse. \nKim\, Jenny\, welcome to your first time being here as a co-host. \nKIM SMITH: Thanks\, Jessica. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Hopefully not the last time\, too. \nKIM SMITH: Thanks\, Jessica. I’m glad to be here and looking forward to this discussion. \nJENNY REA: Thank you. It’s great to be part of this conversation as well. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, Kim\, I’m gonna now turn it over to you as a co-host\, to introduce our guest. \nKIM SMITH: Thank you. Joining us today is Jennifer Holiday\, the first military family liaison for the state of Alabama. A military spouse of more than 21 years. Jennifer brings firsthand experience navigating military life alongside her husband during multiple deployments and relocations while raising their three children. \nThroughout her experience as a military family advocate\, Jennifer has led and supported military spouse and family initiatives through roles with family readiness groups and community organizations. In her current role\, she [00:02:00] works to strengthen quality of life for military families across Alabama and nationwide by advancing policies\, building partnerships\, and connecting communities. \nJennifer\, we’re really glad you’re here. Thank you for joining us. \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: Thank you all for having me. I’m excited to be here\, too. This is gonna be great. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, I’m so excited for this conversation. I will kick us off. So Jennifer\, you’ve lived military life for over 21 years. Seven deployments\, nine PCS moves\, permanent change of station moves. Three kids. Before we talk about the work you do now\, what did you learn from being on the receiving end of military family support systems that you carry into this role every day? \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: There’s a lot\, but I think some of the key things are communication\, which is\, you know\, I say it all the time\, it is the base of all of our problems. If we could improve our communication\, we would solve a lot. Relationships are key to strong support for anybody\, but especially for the military community [00:03:00] where they’re constantly moving and changing\, and having to develop new relationships. \nSo having that kind of strong introduction to a community\, and even within a unit\, is really key to having a successful experience. And just being curious. Always digging deeper and asking questions\, and not always taking no for the final answer. Sometimes you have to\, and I have done that too. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Kind of being able to advocate for yourself and your family. Yeah. \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: For yourself\, advocate for your friends. Share your ideas\, but also be willing to\, you know\, listen to and investigate other ideas. So I think communication\, curiosity\, and just using all of that to help build strong relationships is key. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Being on that receiving end of military family support systems though\, it sounds like you had to do a lot of sort of investigating to kind of find them. Is that right? \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: That’s kind of one of those things that helps make military spouses so\, I don’t wanna say necessarily unique\, but well-trained. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: Resource navigation and [00:04:00] project management and all of the things that\, especially\, you know\, back in the old days in the 1900s when we didn’t have all the tools and resources that we have now. \nSo navigation and finding even just resources and personal connections was a lot harder than it is now. It looks different. It’s still difficult. Just sometimes in different ways. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mmhmm. \nKIM SMITH: So Alabama created this military family liaison position before any other state. How did that happen? What was the problem someone was trying to solve? And why Alabama first? \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: Well\, it’s a unique story. I’ll try to do it in a nutshell. It actually started from our lieutenant governor. His main two priorities the entire time he’s been in office\, he’s finishing up his last term now\, but he’s been focused on workforce development and the military broadly\, but also specifically within military spouse employment. \nBack in 2018\, Alabama on its [00:05:00] own I mean\, we were here\, but I was not involved in any of this stuff. They actually passed a Military Family Jobs Opportunity Act in 2018\, giving license reciprocity to military spouses almost across the board. \nAnd since that time\, we’ve added a few things that have covered just about everybody\, on our own\, in addition to all the interstate compacts that are out there. But because they had done that 2018 bill\, they felt kind of good. But when DOD started pushing on family programs and license reciprocity\, and making it a priority for states to sign onto those compacts\, they very quickly realized\, “Well\, even though we already have our own internal\, we really need to participate in this\, and join these compacts.” \nAnd so they started doing that pretty quickly. So Lieutenant Governor Ainsworth wanted to have a place to put all of this new information for the spouses\, for the families. It started with the idea of having a webpage or website. I had worked\, my husband being the Garrison commander at Redstone\, I just\, on my own\, I had created a website for North Alabama resources [00:06:00] across our communities\, and broken up by different categories. \nI had worked with our government affairs lead at the Chamber of Commerce and didn’t know that he was on this Military Stability Foundation board. So when all of that was happening\, after my husband retired\, and they were having these discussions\, and Mike said\, “Hey\, you know\, we have this model website\,” everybody got excited about it. \nThey reached out to me\, and my first meeting\, I didn’t know it was a job interview\, but it was. And so they hired me and CeCe Gallagher\, who was a military spouse at the time stationed at Fort Bliss\, Texas\, to design this website\, which was great. We survived doing that all through COVID without even getting on video. \nWe just\, you know\, put our heads down\, got it done. But during that time\, we were suggesting that there could be something more. We didn’t offer ideas on that. We just said it could be something more. And the Lieutenant Governor and the Military Stability Foundation said\, “Oh\, okay. We have an idea.” \nAnd they came back to me and said\, you know\, “Lieutenant Governor wants a subject matter expert on the military family [00:07:00] and spouse items\, quality of life\, and we want you to do it. But no one else in the country’s doing it. There’s literally no one to follow. \nYou have to do it. There is no model. You have\, you know\, here’s your silver platter\, but you have to figure it out. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: You have to create the mold. \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: Exactly. Exactly. And I love starting new things. So like\, okay\, let’s go. And so we did. That was six years ago this week\, and I kind of just have realized that recently it’s been six years. \nWe launched it in early July\, both the website and this position\, only later to find out that a year after we launched\, Washington state had created a similar position\, and they’ve grown from there. I think we’ll talk about that later. But theirs had come up from a spouse Roundtable event/listening session type of thing. \nOurs came\, you know\, just completely. My position is wholly unique and started that way. I love it. But it does offer its own challenges that way. \nJENNY REA: It sounded like it was a great experience. \nI just wanted to ask\, in that process\, so you were saying you were [00:08:00] working with CeCe Gallagher\, and I’m sure other folks who were in that\, like\, council space\, right? It made me just think about\, so did you reach out to other military spouses\, other people within the community to bring in those outside perspectives to broaden that resource list or anything of that sort? \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: Absolutely. Yeah. You know\, CC was more connected at the national level\, and I was more connected at kind of the local and Alabama level. And so although I had used a lot of those national resources\, I had never really been engaged and involved with them. So it was great to be able to have the two of us coming at it from different perspectives to begin with. \nAnd then we reached out to all the communities. We reached out to spouses. We reached out to the installations\, just pretty much anybody and everybody we could think of. I like to say\, I’ve kind of built a network of networks. And so I’ve kind of always done that with\, for the FRGs\, the family readiness groups and things within a unit\, but I was never really engaged out in the broader community the way that [00:09:00] I was when we got to Redstone. \nAnd so I actually had a lot of connections in our other communities that could help bring in and say\, “Oh\, you need to remember this.” And the Military Stability Foundation board and the commission that it’s connected to are all from different parts of the state and all around. \nSo we can reach out and say\, “Hey\, you know\, what are some of the vetted resources for mental health awareness or education?” And reach out to the different state departments and say\, you know\, “What\, what do you want to highlight?” \nSo it’s been pretty broad\, and it’s ever-growing. I mean\, it will never be complete. I am constantly looking. So anybody who has ideas or resources or whatever\, I’m always – when I was in kindergarten\, I didn’t speak a lot. I was not this! I didn’t talk a lot. And there was some concern\, but my teachers were like\, “No\, no\, no. She’s just a sponge. She’s soaking it all up.” \nAnd that’s typically what I do\, is just kind of bring it all in and then try to help share it out as best I can. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I just wanted to point out that I’ve seen many [00:10:00] initiatives get started with the idea of\, “Oh\, well\, what we need is a website that will kind of contain\, like\, we need a resource site\, or we need a resources repository or whatever that is.” \nAnd a lot of times\, it’ll start to get built. Maybe it’ll get finished. I really think it’s cool that it was recognized that more was needed\, that the website was just sort of like a thing that could be useful\, but that actually someone was needed to coordinate and not just coordinate the website\, but to coordinate some of the actual relationship building and stuff. \nSo that’s one of the things I noticed. \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: Yeah\, it’s really cool. I am a designer by nature\, words and visuals and everything\, which is what kind of brought me to that website design part. But I can’t stand just like a list of links. It had to be more engaging than that. It needed a person behind it\, and now I’m at a point where I’m like\, “Okay\, now it needs to be more interactive.” \nSo we’re constantly [00:11:00] trying to evolve it broadly what we’re offering. \nKIM SMITH: So\, the title military family liaison for the state of Alabama. It’s pretty broad. If you had to describe your actual day-to-day job to someone who had never heard of it\, what would you say? I \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: It’s different every day. Every single day is different\, which I love. That’s great for me\, personally. But\, I am constantly in research mode. I am very curious by nature. And so\, I’m always kind of keeping an eye out for new resources\, new connections. LinkedIn is a great place for me to spend a lot of time because people share on their more on the professional side. \nAnd so when someone’s moving\, that’s\, you know\, that’s a life change. And so they may mention that. They may mention where they’re going. But it’s a great way to connect\, whether they’re job seekers or not\, I find them on there a lot. So spending a lot of time\, engaging that way on social media and things\, and really a lot of email\, a lot of outreach. \nI’m [00:12:00] constantly kind of\, behind a screen\, whether it’s doing\, you know\, virtual meetings and things. So I do try to meet with people in person as much as possible\, whether it’s here locally in the Huntsville area or when I travel to other places\, trying to you know\, kind of get that human connection in person. \nBut having the video is also great because I’ve managed to speak with so many more people that way than I would have if we couldn’t do this. So\, it’s really been great to get some of that connection with individuals\, but also with a lot of the organizations\, like you guys\, and being able to\, you know\, say\, “Hey\, here’s\, what we’re doing\,” Or\, “Here’s a question\, problem\, concern\,” whatever\, and be able to share out with you guys too\, since I am really a party of one in this mission. \nGetting the word out is sometimes a little bit harder. So trying to connect with people who can also help us just\, you know\, amplify what’s going on. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That’s great. \nJENNY REA: So Alabama does have a strong National Guard and Reserve presence. But most of us know that with guard and reserve [00:13:00] families\, they often live in communities where their neighbors may or may not have any frame of reference of what a military family is\, what military life kind of involves. With that being said\, there’s also a lack of installation family support nearby. \nSo how does that change what coordination and collaboration have to look like for both service providers and also that local community support system? \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: It’s a great question because people tend to think\, you know\, military broadly and don’t always remember that the Guard and Reserve forces are part-time. So it’s a very different experience for the spouses\, the families\, and the service members between full-time service and part-time service. \nA lot of the time for our Guard and Reserve families\, they’re spread out. They’re all over. They may be through different states even\, not just like our Alabama National Guard. We have a lot of people that don’t live in Alabama\, but are serving here. And so it’s very disjointed a lot of the [00:14:00] time. \nNot necessarily by design\, but that’s just kind of the nature of that expansive beast. So for people who are providing a service or even just\, you know\, trying to support within the community\, it’s really important to try to think outside the box\, try to connect with those communities and find out what they need firsthand\, not just kind of guessing at what they need. \nBut then using that to build something maybe a little bit more flexible. Something that could be supportive to someone individually on a case-by-case basis. But then if there is a guard activation or deployment and the whole unit is gonna be engaged\, then you can kind of level up to support\, and kind of wrap your arms around that whole group instead of just the onesies and twosies that are maybe coming and going\, that kind of thing. \nOne of the good examples for this kind of broadly is childcare. A lot of the time those part-time service member families\, the Guard and Reserve\, they are in the community. Their families are there locally. They’re not as spread out as the active duty folks. \n[00:15:00] So they may have fairly steady childcare through the week. They’re good. They’ve got full-time childcare. They’ve got their seats. But then what happens if the service member has to pull duty\, or goes for weekend or two weeks of training\, and the stay-at-home spouse\, the one that’s working at home\, works the swing shift\, maybe as a nurse that has to go in in the middle of the night\, those kinds of things. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Or on the weekend. \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: Or the weekend. Absolutely. The weekend is really kind of the biggest impact. Childcare’s not often offered on a weekend. So where can the communities kind of pull together and figure out how to develop resources that can help support that? Some of that’s coming from the spouse community itself right now. \nThat’s a really big problem. But it’s a good example of where active duty folks are often looking for childcare and can’t get in\, because they’re not there locally already established\, but the ones that are established are still looking for alternative care because they need it in a different way at a different time. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, I think you’re kind of leading in this [00:16:00] direction. But I’m curious about how\, you know\, one of the frameworks that comes up in military family systems work is shared responsibility. That idea that there’s no single agency or program or level of government that can meet a military family’s needs on their own. \nSo what does shared responsibility\, and I think you’ve been going down this path and starting to explain it\, especially in the last question we asked\, but what does shared responsibility look like when it’s actually working\, versus when it’s just sort of a phrase that people are using like\, “We need to pull together. We need to\, collaborate more.” \nI think it’s a really easy thing to say\, and I do think people’s hearts are in the right place and they want to do it. It’s never a simple answer as a simple thing to do. So yeah\, what does shared responsibility look like when it’s working well? \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: It comes down to action\, collaborative action\, if you want to call it that. One of the things I talk about a lot is the military community really loves and appreciates it when people say thank you. That’s great. But they get a [00:17:00] deeper sense of belonging if there’s actually action behind it. \nAnd not just a Veterans Day parade\, that’s great. We have a fabulous one here in Huntsville that’s wonderful. But doing things\, an employer having a policy where if they hire a military\, an active duty spouse or even a guard reserve spouse\, because sometimes service members are activated and they go into deployment mode\, or have to PCS\, that there’s a policy at the place where you work that sees you. \nIt’s\, you know\, being seen and heard\, but also understood and having some kind of action being taken that’s waving the flag\, saying thank you. \nThat’s wonderful\, and always appreciate it\, but it doesn’t necessarily wrap your arms around the families the way that it feels like it does. \nAnd once you start as a community or service provider\, start actually engaging in that. I have seen so many times where it’s just\, it makes such a huge difference\, not just for that service member or family or even unit\, but for the people who are the action or creating the [00:18:00] policy. \nAnd it just continues to kind of\, I guess\, for lack of a better term\, pay it forward. And it just continues to grow and expand. I’ll tell you\, probably that sense of\, not just welcome\, but belonging\, a lot of the time can significantly improve somebody’s mental health state. \nThey come in\, they’re exhausted. They’ve\, you know\, moved three times across three different states across the country to completely different places. And then you walk in\, and you don’t know what’s what. You don’t know who to go to. If you find that person\, or you see that resource\, or you interview with an employer that says\, “Oh\, I can help with that.” \nI’ve seen so many times\, not just me but many times\, where it just is kind of an instant switch. I tell people all the time\, you know\, “Don’t base your new place on your old place\, right? Give it a chance.” \nAnd so the more that the community can offer that chance upfront as much as possible\, the quicker they will settle into the new place\, be a part of the community. \nI mean\, I’m not sure if everybody’s aware of this\, but [00:19:00] 70% of the military\, the active duty military community\, also lives in your community. They’re not living on the installations. You know\, here at Redstone\, it’s even a bigger number because we don’t have a lot of housing. \nBut\, the military community is your community. They’re already there. It’s just getting engaged\, and sometimes they don’t know how to do that. They need the help of the community to reach out and say\, “Hey\, come on in and hang out with us.” \nJENNY REA: I love that\, Jennifer. I just want to peek in really quick because that hit home really well for me\, just with how many moves. We recently just PCSd to Newburn and it’s like\, “Holy cow\, we’re starting all over and it’s exhausting.” And so that really hit home\, for me. And I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase\, like\, “Grow where you’re planted.” \nAnd it’s like\, “I will. I can. I know I can\, but\, like\, I need the soil that is strong to also hold me up to get there.” \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: Yes. The community is that foundation\, the fertilizer [00:20:00] to\, you know\, help you grow. And yes\, bloom where you’re planted\, grow where you are. Those things have been a long\, long\, long\, long history in the military spouse community especially. And it’s kind of in our nature to do that and to want to\, you know\, when you come in and you see a problem or a gap or whatever that you kind of want to fix it. \nAnd it would be great if it\, especially in school\, if it helps your kid\, that’s great. But more the better that it helps the people that are coming in behind\, so they don’t have to jump that hurdle that you had to do. Sometimes it works great\, and sometimes it continues to be a struggle for a while. \nIt just depends on what it is and where it is\, and where you interact. And there’s definitely things in our past that\, if I had been more aware and known what I could do in the community\, we could’ve maybe made some impact sooner rather than later. But somebody\, you know\, will come along and has done that\, and it’s great and wonderful when it happens. \nBut yeah\, the communities\, I think\, the ones that are really [00:21:00] engaged and doing those active things\, whatever that might look like for your community or your organization\, are the ones that really kind of build the relationships. And I’ll tell you\, we are still\, we may be very digital\, but the military community is very much – we work along the grapevine. Everything is experience-based. “And what did you do? And how did it go?” \nSometimes that’s really great\, and it perpetuates really great things. Sometimes\, I mean\, they’re very honest about this. Montgomery and Maxwell Air Force Base have struggled for a long time. \nAnd a lot of the folks go to the schoolhouse there with what we call geo-batch. The service member would go onto the school\, and the spouse and family would stay in another state because they weren’t interested in going for whatever reason\, whatever that was. The installation and the community have done a lot of work over the last several years\, there’s still a long way to go\, on some things\, but they’ve done a lot of work. And I have known people who literally maybe 5\, 10 years ago went and did not bring their family. And now they’re back again for another school [00:22:00] and they’re bringing the family\, and that’s a better experience. \neducation has improved\, all those things. So it is very\, very impactful what particular military service member\, spouse\, family\, especially the kids\, what they experience when they come into a new area or reach out to a resource. \nKIM SMITH: Yes\, relationships are so important. So Jennifer\, you work closely with the Defense State Liaison Office. Their function is to bridge federal policy and state-level implementation. From your perspective\, how does that relationship function\, and what difference does it make for families? \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: So it is actually super important. We work very closely. The liaisons are regional\, so we don’t have one just for each state. So they have a lot on their plate as well. But to be able to funnel things it’s kind of like a two-way bridge. So the things that they’re working on\, like I mentioned earlier\, when the priority became licensed reciprocity and signing onto the compacts\, Alabama stepped [00:23:00] up and said\, “Okay\, here we go. We’re going to do all of these. We’re going to join them.” \nWe couldn’t do them all at once immediately\, but they did several. And we went from being\, like\, number 50 to number 1 in just a couple of short years. I think as of last fall\, we were\, not to toot our own horn\, but we were number 1 on all of these compacts. \nBut it’s also fun to see the other states catching up and be like\, “Okay\, come on.” Like\, we’re all in this together. The competition is good because it helps bring everybody up\, but it also is not a\, “Hey\, we’re better than anybody else\,” kind of thing. \nIt’s just\, like\, “We did it\, so can you.” So they kind of are bridging gaps at that national federal to the states. I’m kind of doing the opposite\, kind of bridging up. \nAnd so when I hear of things from different states or at different conferences\, we can say\, “Okay\, we know that this is important. It’s a priority.” They have gained\, they have the data and all of that to bring top level information to us. But we can also bring it up from the bottom\, you know\, have that\, grassroots [00:24:00] push to bring up to their attention what we may be seeing or what challenges we may even be facing within what they see as a priority. \nWe can’t always make that work\, at least immediately. But we have been pretty good lately. Alabama is a state with\, every time they produce a priority\, we’re right there going\, “Okay. All right. What can you challenge us with next? What can we do?” And keep that momentum going. \nSo they have that wide scope we kind of fill in the funnel towards the bottom\, especially all the way down to me. Because even the state itself is a completely different level\, and all of our different departments that I’m trying to kind of\, you know\, bring everybody together and be like\, “Okay\, everybody needs a point of contact for the military. Everybody needs some policies. Who wants to join the military spouse employment partnership with me?” \nAnd\, “What are these things that we can do to help?” Because all of that stuff also helps\, from the top down\, the leadership be involved and generate that action that we’re talking about earlier from the top down. \nSo it’s not always just somebody who’s maybe a military spouse in a [00:25:00] company going\, “Hey\, what about this?” That is happening a lot and it works a lot\, but it is a struggle sometimes for them to get to the right people and all of that. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: If we’re working together with going from the top down and from the bottom up\, we could be making a very tasty sandwich. \nWhich is a really stupid joke. But – \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: But we’re meeting in the middle. That’s the\, you know\, and that’s where really the meat of the matter – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. The – \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: Works perfectly. I love it. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, the delicious middle. \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: That’s right. That’s right. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So I’d love to know\, when you’re trying to get people from very different sectors\, right? Federal\, state\, non-profit\, private\, to work together on something as complicated as childcare access or reducing military spouse unemployment\, what does it take to get them to the table and keep them there? \nLike what are some of the barriers? What are some of the things that work or that have worked? \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: Something that works is offering the table\, offering the space\, and reaching out and starting a conversation [00:26:00] and saying\, “Hey\, I see or know or understand that you do X. That’s great. Can we adjust that a little bit?” \nIt’s a really interesting kind of push and pull\, because the military community doesn’t want to be the cause of things\, and doesn’t want to be like\, “So we do this and we do it for the military.” We want to be\, like I said earlier\, engaged in that sense of belonging where\, you know\, you’re part of the team. So talking to\, whether it’s service providers or state departments\, or anybody\, a lot of the time\, it just starts with a conversation. \nAnd usually because we are all just so connected in different ways\, having a conversation\, telling a story\, if I tell a story about one family\, a lot of the time\, that person that I’m talking to will go\, “Oh\, I had that experience\,” or\, “I know a such and such that had something similar.” \nAnd it may not even be the whole experience. There’s some little piece of something that’s in there\, breaking down the [00:27:00] silos between\, you know\, a lot of times\, even within an organization or a department\, things are very kind of siloed. And we don’t even realize that something you’re doing could benefit over here and vice versa. \nAnd kind of the\, my husband was an intel guy\, and his thing is always\, “Who else needs to know?” Like\, who else needs to know about the resource\, but who else needs to know what could be maybe adjusted. So it’s really\, a lot of conversation\, a lot of human nature. And just trying to find those connections. \nI’ve said a lot that I work in small\, big things. So one example of that\, and I’m not sure if it would fit somewhere else\, but I’ll just say right here\, most states have an immunization shot\, you know\, a shot record for kids\, and they have to submit that to register for school\, right? \nSo as we move from state to state\, no matter how many kids you have\, you have to have that done for every child\, every year that you’ve moved. And it has to be done by a medical provider. You can’t just [00:28:00] say\, “Oh\, here’s a copy of my stuff\,” and go to school.” And so we’ve dealt with that multiple times ourselves for three kids. \nAnd I had a conversation\, just a one-on-one\, with a spouse down in Montgomery. They had just gotten to Maxwell. They had moved from Alaska to Virginia to Alabama once a year. They had experienced each of those three states in short order. Young elementary school kids. And we were just having a conversation over lunch\, and she was kind of venting that she had just spent the day before\, like\, three or four hours\, at the county health department\, because she couldn’t get an appointment on post to get the doctor to transfer the records\, and so she had to do it there. \nThat’s a lot of time and stress\, and just all the things that you don’t need in the middle of this gigantic checklist of things that you’re trying to do\, especially three times in three years. And so I kind of\, “Yep\, I could commiserate with that\,” at least to an extent. I hadn’t done it that frequently. \nBut\, in my head\, I thought\, “Hmm\, I’m in a position to fix this.” And when I approached the topic with my [00:29:00] leadership and said\, “Here’s the problem\,” and they said\, “Well\, does this affect everybody or just a few people?” I said\, ” Everybody.” \nIt’s something that doesn’t require funding. It required a few conversations with the Department of Ed and\, you know\, the health department\, you know\, a few people. And within a couple of months\, we had legislation written and submitted to give military\, active duty military families coming into the state\, an exemption so they don’t have to do that. So they can bring their federal shot record because it is redundant. \nYou have a federal shot record\, you’re bringing it in. It kind of supersedes the state one and you hand it in. So I am sure on the back end\, they deal with having the data if they want to have it all\, you know\, in their streamlined system\, but they alleviated the problem directly for the military families coming into the state. \nIt’s a small thing. It sounds like a really small thing. It’s an item on a checklist to do\, but for the military families\, it’s a huge thing. I mean\, I’ve had people\, I tell them that we’re doing this and they’re in tears\, like\, “Oh my God\, that’s so [00:30:00] impactful.” Sometimes it’s hard to find those things\, but being able to break through some of the walls\, I don’t think any state has really thought through the fact that that’s redundant. And it’s something we could easily alleviate. It just happened out of conversation. \nSo I think\, again\, communication is my thing\, but I think it all comes down to being able to connect with people and find out what they need. \nJENNY REA: So Jennifer\, I think what you were just talking about really reflects on what you were saying earlier about military families being seen and heard\, and where you’re able to be in that position to kind of fix or be able to help others. I love that part\, and I really hope that you can make the immunization thing happen in North Carolina. \nThat’d be great. So this role didn’t exist anywhere else before Alabama when you first started. They didn’t exist at all\, when you created it\, and now\, Washington State\, Virginia\, and a small handful of others actually have followed this lead. What does this tell you about the [00:31:00] current movement\, in the military family policy that states are starting to create these positions themselves rather than waiting for that federal direction? \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: I think it’s just a reflection of the fact that that support needs to be localized. The military families\, I think\, have known that forever and kind of wished for it to have more local support. The stuff that comes down is great. There’s a lot of big programs that offer a lot of support. \nBut\, like\, with our experience\, I really didn’t get involved in the community\, like I said earlier\, until the very end of my husband’s career. There’s a bigger push now to get engaged in the local community\, rather than staying kind of behind the gate\, whether you’re living on post or not\, and not just internalized to the unit. \nAnd a lot of that comes from the fact that\, I think I mentioned earlier\, 70% of the military families are living in the community already. And so beyond just volunteering at\, you know\, your kids’ school or something\, it’s much broader than that. I could talk about that in and of itself [00:32:00] all day long\, but\, Blue Star Families has created their Do Your Part initiative as\, again\, kind of a reflection of this. \nLike they’re realizing we really\, really do need to better coordinate locally this initiative out to the states to say\, you know\, you need to do your part. work with us. And so they have a toolkit that’s online where they’ve gone through and curated all the policies and things that have happened at the state level across many of the states so far. \nIt’s a building/growing toolkit. But stakeholders can go in there and kind of\, it’s not necessarily forward-facing to the families as much as where mine is a little bit more kind of like the actual resources. This is just kind of awareness of what’s going on in your state\, and different states\, to help people see where they can localize things. \nIt gives really good ideas and examples of things that other people can carry forward. and just really making it more of a local team effort to support what’s happening at the federal level. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. We’ll include a link to that in our show notes so our listeners can check that out. \nWell\, [00:33:00] let’s switch gears a little bit. Many of our listeners are family service professionals that are working in communities that don’t have someone in a role like yours in their state\, right? \nThere’s no state liaison. There’s no formal coordination infrastructure. So what can an individual practitioner out in a rural county\, for example\, do to create some of that connective tissue themselves? \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: I think one of the easiest things is to just start building trust by showing that you are knowledgeable about the military community. Learning\, making sure that\, you know\, you’re aware of trainings and things\, so that you’ve got\, if you’re not already personally connected\, a lot of time\, people are personally connected or working with people who are military connected\, so that helps a lot. \nBut if you can\, when you’re reaching out on social media\, be intentional. Don’t just post a flag day\, social media post\, Happy Flag Day\, and that’s your military connection. You want it to be much deeper and more intentional than that. \nSo sharing things that are [00:34:00] your resource or other resources for families to help spread the word about those things. Create a landing page. It’s a little bit\, you know\, sharing on social media is probably the quickest\, easiest thing when you’re sharing intentional\, knowledgeable things\, and reaching out to show them that you care\, not just what you offer. \nBut having a landing page\, whether it’s for the military families or the spouses\, or whatever it is for your particular thing. I even did that with our website. Our website is titled Heroes Welcome Initiative\, because it was named before they even knew that this was going to be more focused on spouses. \nSo I created a landing page for military spouses to hold more of our spouse-connected resources\, to spotlight that. So for an employer to spotlight job opportunities for those arenas that spouses may be more interested in\, or their policies. If you have a policy that’s specific to military spouses\, spotlight that on your website. \nYou know\, it doesn’t even have to be a whole landing page\, but have something on there that starts to highlight your connection to the military and supporting them. \nKIM SMITH: You’ve been [00:35:00] a military spouse\, a volunteer leader\, a foundation VP\, and now a state liaison. So we’re curious\, Jennifer\, what do you now know about supporting military families that you wish someone had told you during your first PCS move? \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: I am sure that there are a lot of things\, but the one that comes to mind\, because we’ve already just talked about it\, is\, just engaging locally. We were very internal to what was happening because it was also\, you know\, GYT. we kind of needed to be internal\, in a lot of ways. \nBut\, we also really could have leaned on the community a little bit more. And I think if we had\, they would’ve stepped up. And I think some people did. But I think generally\, from the military community and spouse side\, it’s more of an internal thing. We’ve got this and all of that HUA stuff. Just\, you know\, step out into the community\, go out and volunteer and do something out there and engage\, and be part of the community. \nJENNY REA: Jennifer\, that’s great advice. In a follow-up to that\, what is one thing that you [00:36:00] want service providers or community leaders who are listening today to do or think about differently\, after hearing this conversation? \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: I think it’s starting small. Start those small things. You can do big sweeping things\, but a lot of the time\, like we talked about earlier\, those small things are very impactful. Especially when it comes to the difference between active duty and garden reserve. \nThe same applies across all of it. Start small. but you can really make some big impacts with the Guard and Reserve folks\, if that’s what your focus is in your area\, because they don’t have a lot of that continuity on the military community side\, and really within their own communities. \nBut show up. Show up\, whether that’s virtually or in person. And if you have a service and a program that you’re providing\, how does that really impact and affect the military? Is it what they need? I guess that would probably be the even bigger thing is\, connect with the [00:37:00] military community\, and make sure that what you’re providing is what they need\, or find out how you could adjust it by actually talking to them instead of kind of guessing or assuming. \nIt makes your job a lot easier. \nJENNY REA: Thank you\, Jennifer. I really appreciate you sharing that experience. \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: Absolutely. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Jennifer\, thank you so much for sharing your experience and your perspective with us\, and for the work that you’re doing to strengthen support for military families. I think this conversation really highlighted how much of this work comes down to connection\, right? Connection across systems\, across sectors\, across communities\, and of course all of those things are made up of people\, which is the most important ingredient. \nThank you so much for being here. \nJENNIFER HOLLIDAY: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate the opportunity to\, to share with you all and\, hopefully offer some nuggets of wisdom along the way\, but\, it’s been fun. Thank you. \nKIM SMITH: Well\, that’s it for this episode. If this conversation sparked ideas for your own work\, we encourage you to share it with a colleague or partner in your [00:38:00] network. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: We’d like to thank one more time our guest\, Jennifer Holliday\, for joining us\, and our guest co-host\, Kim Smith and Jenny Rea for being part of today’s conversation. \nKIM SMITH: We’d also like to thank our announcer\, Kaylin Gobel-Mathis\, Maggie Lucas\, and Joyce Vaughn for their help with marketing\, and Nathan Grimm\, who composed and performed all the music you hear on the podcast. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And of course\, thank you so much for being part of the conversation. We’ll see you next time. \nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3. \n.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/the-connective-tissue-what-statewide-military-family-coordination-looks-like/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260806T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260806T170000
DTSTAMP:20260812T142313Z
CREATED:20260806T100100Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260812T142313Z
UID:10001791-1785996000-1786035600@oneop.org
SUMMARY:When Community Works: Care\, Connection\, and Collective Resilience with Julika von Stackleberg
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The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]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[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 32) \nBelonging isn’t just a warm feeling – it’s something people build together over time.  \nIn this episode\, we’re talking about how communities learn to do that in ways that are genuinely caring\, how they keep it going\, and what that means for people who have to rebuild their sense of community again and again\, including many military-connected families. \nJessica and Erin talk with Julika von Stackelberg\, a Family and Community Resilience Educator with Cornell Cooperative Extension\, whose work sits at the intersection of parenting education\, community development\, and systems change. Through programs like the Orange County Resilience Project\, Julika brings people together to build communities rooted in care\, connection\, and shared responsibility. \nTogether\, they unpack what “belonging” looks like in practice\, why the feeling of being cared for can matter even more than visible acts of support\, and how communities can sustain that care over time—even when people are constantly coming and going. \nWhether you work with military families or are simply interested in how stronger\, more resilient communities are built\, this conversation offers practical insights and thoughtful questions to carry into your own work. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nJulika on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julikavstackelberg/\n\nConnect with us! \n\n\n\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: [00:00:00] Hi\, welcome to the Practicing Connection Podcast. I’m Erin Carlson Rivera. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And I’m Jessica Beckendorf. Today\, we’re talking about community resilience\, what it looks like in practice\, and how people can come together in ways that truly support one another. I am so excited for this conversation\, because I had the pleasure of meeting our guest in person and hearing about her impactful work last summer while at a conference. \nErin\, let’s get started and introduce our guest. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. Our guest today is Julika von Stuckelberg. Julika is a family and community resource educator with the Cornell Cooperative Extension of Orange County\, where she works at the intersection of parenting education\, community development\, and systems change. \nShe’s a credentialed parenting educator and a certified coach who focuses on creating environments where people feel a genuine sense of belonging and support. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Her work spans everything from trauma-informed parenting programs [00:01:00] to designing community-based learning experiences that help people build resilience together. \nJulika also leads the Orange County Resilience Project\, co-chairs the Orange County Parenting Coalition\, and plays a role in shaping resilience efforts across New York State. At the heart of her work is a simple but powerful question: “How do we build communities that care for people in ways that are lasting\, adaptive\, and deeply human? \nHi\, Julika. Thank you so much for joining us on Practicing Connection. \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Hi. It’s so lovely to be here. Thank you so much for having me and for this very sweet introduction. I always get excited to have these conversations. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes\, me too. Although when I’m in your shoes\, I’m always a little bit like\, “Ooh\, did I really do all that? Did I?!” \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Same. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Well\, let’s actually start at a really nice and simple place. Can you share a little bit more about your role at Cornell Cooperative Extension and what drew you to this work around community resilience? [00:02:00]\nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Yeah\, absolutely. So I actually started at Cornell Cooperative Extension a little over 10 years ago as a parenting educator. \nAnd I came into this field really because I have three children. And when they were little\, I heard myself saying things or words coming out of my mouth that I didn’t really ever expect would come out and that\, that I told myself I would never say to my children. And so I discovered eventually that\, you know\, I didn’t know what else to say to my children. \nAnd in the process of searching for what I could say\, I found that there were lots and lots of resources for parents to raise their children that really supported them and provided some kind of questions and ways to look at my own life that uncovered that it wasn’t just myself\, it was also my upbringing and the broader network of\, you know\, the people that brought me up and so [00:03:00] forth. \nAnd long story short\, I came to Cornell Cooperative Extension as a parenting educator. And when I\, in the process\, learned about the impact of trauma on our health and well-being and where that trauma comes from\, oftentimes from\, you know\, adverse childhood experiences that we have as we grow up in our families that are supposed to be the safe places and in the communities that are supposed to be the safe places\, I became really curious about what we can do to make these places more nurturing for children to grow up into healthy adults in the long term. \nThat’s really what sort of sparked my interest in community building is about creating the sort of environments where parents\, grandparents\, people in all generation across the lifespan can thrive. \nSo that’s what broadened my parenting work very much from\, you know\, working one-on-one with parents to parenting [00:04:00] workshops and other supports\, to really thinking about community building and the structures that we live in\, and what do we need in order to be able to thrive? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Wow. That’s awesome. I would imagine\, you know\, places that are really nurturing for children might also be places that are nurturing for adults as well. \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Yes. Yes. And it’s healing backwards sometimes what I say\, you know? And it’s not just our parents\, of course. We do what we do with the knowledge that we have and the best intentions most of the time. It’s really the conditions that can make it hard. So how can we support or create the sort of buffer zones for when things happen that are hard that can allow people to recover and thrive? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. So before this call\, you shared about your Community Resilience Builder Program that is now about to start its fourth cohort. What surprised you most about how participants show up for one [00:05:00] another over those nine or ten months of the cohort? \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Yeah. So the program is really awesome in that it speaks to an intergenerational sort of group of participants. \nSo we’ve had this last year\, the youngest participant was 14 when she started. So she was a freshman in high school. And the oldest participant is someone who’s about to retire. So we really have a very diverse group of people who come from different backgrounds\, different ages\, different life experiences with different interests. \nAnd finding a place that these individuals all somehow have an interest in building\, you know\, healthy and resilient communities where they can regenerate well-being. And hearing the conversations and the perspectives of these different people is one of the things that surprised me the most in [00:06:00] just the ways that they are able to support one another\, have empathy for one another\, have interest in one another\, and really care for one another. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That’s awesome. I’m actually wondering if this would be a good time for you to maybe just share a little bit about what that program is too\, because that’s one of the reasons why I reached out to you\, was I knew about this program\, you had presented about it at the conference. So if you could tell us a little bit about that\, then we won’t have to ask you\, keep asking you all these questions as we go along. \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Yeah. So this program is basically a nine-month or ten-month program\, that the tenth month is really the graduation and collective evaluation. But it’s a ten-month journey that participants go on where they learn frameworks that support well-being. And so in this\, I look at resilience as a mechanism towards regenerating well-being. \nIf we have to be [00:07:00] resilient all of the time\, then there is something in our environment that is causing a pressure that maybe isn’t something that we can individually adapt to as easily. But if we’re able to tap into the ability of being resilient\, and there are specific ways that we can do that by having protective factors in place\, by learning tools to having dialogues\, et cetera\, we end up being able to regenerate well-being as a community. \nAnd so this ten-month program really goes through this journey where people learn about public health\, they learn about leadership\, they learn about community development and dialogues\, and so forth. And this is a master volunteer program. \nSo in other words\, people are\, as a result\, they become expertly trained volunteers who can then help to give workshops in the community or help [00:08:00] find ways to integrate specific ways to increase resilience in the classroom or for teachers or families or\, you know\, families who are experiencing a lot of change\, like military families\, really putting in place those mechanisms that can allow them to tap into their resilience so that they can regenerate well-being. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Wow\, that sounds great. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, I know\, I know. Like I keep saying\, I want this to spread everywhere. So we’ve been spending here at OneOp a little bit of time with a 2020 article from the Journal of Community Psychology called Connecting Experiences of Community\, Shared Responsibility\, and Collective Competence to the Well-being of Adults and Military Families by O’Neil\, Mancini and Bowen. \nAnd the reason I give this huge preamble before asking this question is because one of the things they describe in this article is what they call a “synergistic community\,” where people both feel a genuine sense [00:09:00] of caring for one another and actually act on it together. And I see your program as something that activates that\, that makes this operational. \nAnd so in your experience running your program\, do those two things\, the feeling and the action\, tend to show up together or does one tend to come first? \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: That’s a good question. I thought about that for a while\, and I think that one might come before the other at a certain time. But I think in general\, when you have some actions that you can take together and you’re creating sort of a space where specific feelings can be possible\, that’s really what sort of creates that type of an environment or the space or this energy\, the synergy that comes from that. \nAnd oftentimes these things\, you know\, don’t happen by themselves. But the synergy\, I think\, really can be generated by [00:10:00] holding a space and allowing for specific actions to take place so that then\, you know\, the feelings can somehow really integrate. I think that’s really where there’s so much power in a framework like that. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Where do you see\, well\, you work for Cooperative Extension. And so\, you know\, you clearly see a role for Extension in this\, but thinking globally about Extension and how they can play a role in holding that space\, how do you see that playing out? Do you think Extension has a broader role\, or were you just kind of lucky that your research kind of matched up with what your community wanted? \nYeah\, I know that’s a really complex question. \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Yeah. I actually think that’s exactly the mission of Extension\, is to create these spaces where community members can apply and utilize the resources that might be introduced to them\, but also their own knowledge. There’s so much knowledge [00:11:00] within the communities\, and\, you know\, oftentimes\, that’s what we bring back to the university and say\, like\, look\, “This is what people are experiencing and what they know.” \nAnd then universities design research around that. So it’s really this back and forth\, but I do think it is an Extension opportunity to create these spaces where community members can gather\, whether it’s in forms of workshops or special intergenerational events or in support groups or make and take events where that can be generated. \nBut I do think that Extensions can do better when they have that purpose with them. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mmhmm. \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: You know\, and really apply these questions that can sort of open up the participants to share their knowledge\, to experience those feelings that sometimes help them process their lived [00:12:00] experience\, but also find solutions and really connect in the process with others. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I love that your work is so focused\, not only on just teaching people things\, but helping them be connected with each other. I find personally that I learn best when I’m in a community where we engage with each other. And there’s almost this\, like\, magical thing that happens where you start applying things before you realize you’re applying things that you’re learning. \nAnd that’s so lovely. So your work centers on communities of belonging. What does belonging look like when it’s genuinely present? What signs can people look for? How do you know it when you see it? \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Mm-hmm. So I think when we feel like we belong\, we have a sense of\, you know\, we’re safe\, we can let our guard down\, we can fully participate\, that our contributions are [00:13:00] valued and that we really matter. \nAnd there’s three pillars that we often talk about in creating a space that provides that is when people feel connected and they feel safe and able to regulate themselves. So that means sort of where you’re really able to tap into your own knowledge\, where you can fully show up as yourself. And also sometimes there’s nuance\, you know\, that doesn’t just mean everything is always in agreement and kumbaya. \nIt’s really about being able to speak your mind and having conversations. So I think you see belonging when people really show up with nuances that they have in themselves. Like our 14-year-old participant\, at first\, she was maybe more withheld and cautious and quiet. And now she skips in the room. She says\, “Hi\, how are you? How was your month? [00:14:00] Or your week?” And\, “What can I do to help set up?” And asking questions. \nAnd you see people genuinely care for each other and show interest. And that’s when you can see that people have a sense of belonging. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, I think this is incredible. I think that in everything you’re saying\, it’s really clear that the sense of the people around you accept you\, or I’m not sure\, I’m kind of struggling with a word here to find\, but I’ll say that the people around you accept you for who you are. \nIt’s really clear that that shows up and is important. And it is supported by that research I mentioned earlier that\, in fact\, that feeling might actually matter more to people’s well-being than visible community action alone. So the community coming together to address problems. \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Mmhmm. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Which was also found to be really important in the research\, but that this feeling might actually matter more. \nSo let’s get into some of the details of your program a little bit\, because how [00:15:00] is that cultivated\, right? You just mentioned a change in the 14-year-old that was in the program from kind of being more reserved to them feeling like they can be themselves. So how do you cultivate that in your program? \nWhat are some of the practices or structures that seem to actually move people from being polite to actually genuinely caring about each other? \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: So one of the things that we do is we try to have a variety of ways that people engage with one another. Sometimes people spend time reflecting for themselves and then sharing out with everyone their thoughts. \nAnd that’s all we want to hear\, is we don’t want to have canned answers. All of it is valid\, what people experience. And then we also have pair activities and smaller group activities. And so one thing that I have learned is oftentimes people often shy away at first from really wanting to engage in that way because it’s [00:16:00] uncomfortable at first to\, you know\, speak out or to talk to a certain person. \nAnd I have learned as the facilitator not to give into people’s discomfort\, and try to make them feel comfortable\, but really trusting in the fact that\, “I know they will really get something out of it.” \nAnd so I think when facilitators can hold that space without purposefully making people uncomfortable\, but really with this knowledge that they will grow from that and they will have experiences. \nAnd trusting in that\, you create opportunities for people to really learn to listen. And practicing active listening in the sense that it’s really\, you know\, we have activities\, in fact\, where we\, in a circle\, each person listens to a different aspect of the story that a person shares. And by the person [00:17:00] reporting out on what they listen to\, they really create this big dimension of a reality and a lived experience that is valid and that means something. \nSo this idea of mattering really is supported in that process. And I think that’s how you build trust. It’s creating opportunities for building relationships and connections and finding similarities\, which we do with icebreakers as well at the very beginning and sort of builds along the program. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I always tell people that\, especially people who really hate icebreakers\, that the facilitator usually has a very distinct\, but perhaps unshared\, purpose for having that specific icebreaker\, right? \nSo there’s always a purpose for the icebreakers and they can be a really important part of starting to build that trust\, like you said. \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: And I think sometimes sharing the purpose is important too\, because [00:18:00] you basically model tools that they can then apply. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes. Especially in a volunteer training program\, right? \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Exactly. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Which is what this is. And\, you mentioned that they become volunteers and that they can deliver workshops and things like that. What is the most common thing that they do with their volunteer time? \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Yeah. So we’re just launching the fourth cohort. And the cohorts are relatively small. \nSo we have\, like\, plus/minus ten people. So we’re just kind of beginning to have that number of volunteers available to do certain things. But in the past\, we actually had some funding to start a climate action group in a community that then looked at what might be some nature-based solutions to address flooding that was particularly of a danger in that specific [00:19:00] geographical area. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: And so this group came up with this whole idea of a ‘sunflower city’ project\, engaging their community and planting more sunflowers\, because those have deep roots that can loosen the soil to make it more absorbable. And so this idea of resilience is multiple. \nIt’s\, one\, you are creating actually a physical environment that might be less prone to as much flooding\, but you’re also creating a community that has greater awareness and connection by sharing these ideas and thinking about that. \nAnd so some of the community resilience builders were really instrumental in bringing that group together and finding a space where these meetings could be housed and that sort of thing. But in the future\, yeah\, we’re hoping for engagement to address some ways that can make our communities physically more adaptable to [00:20:00] severe weather events or the effects of those. \nBut not just from an infrastructure perspective\, really also a social perspective\, making sure people know where to go for cooling stations and food pantries and that sort of thing. And then practicing ways to reduce stress\, you know? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. That sounds like a really incredible ripple effect from the work. \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: As you were talking\, I just saw this\, like\, city where\, like\, sunflowers everywhere\, and it seems like it’s probably a very joyful place because they’re such happy\, vibrant flowers. I love that image. I don’t know if that’s actually what it looks like\, but thank you for sharing that. \nSo I’m really intrigued as you’ve been describing kind of how this program works for the participants and then what they do afterwards. You had mentioned earlier helping military families. And I know a lot of your programming really focuses on building connections between people. \nAnd [00:21:00] military families are frequently relocating\, and they have a lot of transitions which can disrupt that sense of community connection. How do you think about building community with or for people who are a little bit more transient or have temporary roots in a community? \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Yeah. So I think\, you know\, that’s where real concrete tools can be incredibly powerful. I mean\, I want to say that\, you know\, luckily\, we have the ability to Zoom and to stay connected through video chats and that sort of thing. So the relationships that we often build or that families can build can continue\, even if it’s not always in person. \nBut apart from that\, I think really focusing on developing a culture so that people and families can fit in quicker\, because there are certain aspects that’s part of a culture is really important. And I [00:22:00] think also that\, participation in developing the culture and cultivating the culture is important. \nSo giving people opportunities to contribute and to share their knowledge and what they know. And then having protective factors or understanding the importance of protective factors such as parental resilience\, social connections\, concrete supports in times of need\, that sort of thing really helps families to understand that their own agency in the process of creating that resilience and their ability to adapt to the changes that they’re going through and to come back to a sense of well-being is really important. \nAnd so providing tools for that\, and kind of encouragement and support is a way that I think particularly families who are moving [00:23:00] around a lot and who are under high pressure situations can definitely contribute to that. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That makes a lot of sense. I love this idea of building an environment that people can come into and easily connect with. \nI’m not a super transient person\, and I also have had moments of moving where I’m like\, “I don’t even\, like\, how do I start? Like\, where’s the door? Where’s the inroad to\, like\, actually being with people?” \nSo I love that you’re doing all of this work to help communities build those things together. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. And actually\, thinking about the people who work with military families every day\, like counselors\, family readiness officers\, extension educators\, or other extension educators besides you\, Julika\, what’s one thing that these service providers can do or try to help the community around them become a little more connected? \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: I think\, really consciously creating spaces that are [00:24:00] welcoming. Consciously cultivating relationships. I have to give credit to another educator in Cornell Cooperative Extension who recently was talking about how she really prepares her workshops with a personal email that gets sent to every registrant beforehand\, with saying something personal that shows you it’s not AI. \nIt’s not something canned. You know\, a part of it might be canned\, but you recognize yourself in it. And then just how people come in with\, like\, the way the space is set up\, it matters. And then the same thing\, having activities within the program that allows people to connect. We are all incredibly overstimulated with information that becomes really hard to digest. \nAnd so not trying to offer more information and more resources\, but [00:25:00] really more reminding people about what they already know in those opportunities that educators and people working with the families really get to ask these questions. So make it less about adding on a lot of information\, but really reminding the families and individuals what they already know. \nAnd then following up the same way and letting folks know where they can connect again and how to reach out to someone else or making a summary of what they experienced and how lovely it was that they made the time to come\, and what they might’ve gotten out of it. So it’s really intentional relationship building. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: When I think about the things it takes to do the intentional relationship building\, I can see exactly why\, or one of the reasons why it’s so easy to just skip past it and go to\, “Okay\, what are the actions we can do [00:26:00] instead?” right? What are the outputs we can create together? Or\, what are the outputs we are going to create together? \nAnd kind of skipping over it\, because it takes so much time to do these things. And what we measure are the outputs\, not the inputs and not the beautiful little moments that happen when someone starts to feel like they belong\, or those little kind of clues and those things that people say and the caring that’s developing and the trust that’s developing. \nThose are not the things we’re measuring. We’re measuring the outputs that people do together. And I’m not saying that that’s bad. We have to have some outputs too. In a lot of cases\, we need to have some outputs and some things that we’re doing together. It’s something that has been on my mind for years. \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Mm-hmm. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. I\, it’s not really a question in that\, Julika\, I’m just – \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: The point that you’re making is so good. And so when we’re\, you know\, in a model that oftentimes measures growth [00:27:00] or ways that we look at outputs or outcomes as a way to indicate whether or not we have reached our goal\, it does not necessarily allow us to measure well-being. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: And that’s part of\, I think\, this whole mind shift that we’re trying to also look at in this community resilience builder is what might be indicators\, you know? And it doesn’t mean you scratch all of your other indicators\, right. You know\, things are useful\, but we need more depth. \nAnd so that means really taking on another lens to look at the way that we develop programs and we conduct programs and review them. \nI’m really big on participation. So participatory evaluations and ways that we can incorporate that oftentimes reveals much more of the depth and can provide or lead us to more indicators that we might want to look at in the [00:28:00] process. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. Awesome\, thank you. I love that idea of taking this\, “Oh\, but that’s not stuff we measure\,” and saying\, “Okay\, well\, how are we gonna measure it?” \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Yes. Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So what does it take for a community to keep showing up for people over the long haul\, especially if people keep changing in your community? \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: So you want to think about everyone who is a participant in this whole project\, so to speak. And that means including educators\, including\, you know\, service providers\, counselors\, et cetera. \nThey are not just the ones always creating the community. They are also the ones that are participating in it and really creating spaces through coalitions\, through professional development and opportunities for those who keep creating these spaces to come together and really [00:29:00] reflect on what they’re doing and understanding the impact that they have. \nAnd cultivating that\, I think\, is really important in the process as well. I think it translates into those who come and change communities who can take something with them and are able to apply or inform\, and hopefully create some continuity with their own transient nature in that sense. So\, yeah\, I think you have to really take everyone into consideration. \nAnd I want to say too that\, you know\, the “careers\,” in quotation marks\, that counselors and educators and so forth have is not for major profit. These are fields that are leading to great financial rewards\, but the rewards that people get from really building these relationships and seeing [00:30:00] how they can contribute to the well-being within their communities is actually priceless. \nAnd with that\, I’m not trying to diminish the cost of living that is increasing et cetera\, but it’s really an aspect that we can further cultivate as a way to help people to gain some return and that keeps them going. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Okay. Thank you. \nSo this is something that I am very curious about\, and I would love for you to explain it to our listeners. \nSo you’ve been researching social imaginaries as tools for community transition. Without getting too academic about it\, which the term itself kind of sounds like that would be very difficult\, what does it mean to help a community imagine itself differently? And how does that connect to the kind of resilience that you’re building? \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Yeah. So just to kind of backtrack for [00:31:00] a second\, so the social imaginary\, as you said\, it’s kind of a philosophical term of describing how so much of what we do and how we organize our communities is tied to a collective\, like a vision that we all have for ourselves. A lot of the research that I’ve been doing around that is really better understanding how different social imaginaries lead to different ways of how we invent and develop things and respond to challenges in our communities. \nAnd so\, you know\, sometimes I think it’s really hard for us to imagine that our communities could be any different because the problems that we have seem so overwhelming\, and they just seem too many to change. And so kind of going a little bit more at the root of what is it that’s [00:32:00] behind all of this\, I think can sometimes help us to maybe take more of a\, you know\, eagle-eye perspective in a sense that you zoom out and you look at what does a community look like that regenerates well-being? \nAnd how does it do that? What kind of infrastructure does that require? \nAs an example\, if you were thinking about planetary well-being and how we\, humans are part of nature and nature is part of us\, how would we design a city\, for example? And if you understand that\, you know\, insects are traveling also over certain pathways\, then we might think about ways\, if we consider the well-being of insects and pollinators\, we might think about how we can build corridors for insects to travel through a city or urban areas in a way [00:33:00] that sustains their well-being. \nAnd so if we think about that\, or kind of take a lens that connects our well-being\, or really shows the interconnectedness between all things living including humans as a way or a social imaginary\, how we think about the world and how we see ourselves\, then that might help inform how we build our communities. \nAnd what we really need that is not tied to some of the structures that might think about\, you know\, business development as an area of growth to generate wealth or profit in some ways. \nAnd so it just kind of gives us a way to think about some of the complex problems that we work with. I will say that with the arrival of artificial [00:34:00] intelligence and questions that come along with that\, including how are we supporting it through data centers and how our data centers run\, so many of the people who are making\, or are forced to make\, really big decisions around zoning\, et cetera\, they’re volunteers in our municipalities. \nAnd how are we expecting them to understand the complexities of these really new questions? And so social imaginaries as a tool\, I like to look at healing-informed social imaginaries. So imaginaries that really understand the impact of trauma on our health and well-being long-term\, as well as the factors that allow us to tap into resilience so we can regenerate well-being. \nThose kinds of imaginaries help us to wrestle with the questions. It doesn’t provide answers\, but it gives [00:35:00] us an opportunity to think about it in ways that we might not have been able to think about. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: In ways that don’t just sort of skip through all of the really needed conversation and perspective-taking that needs to happen\, just trying to go right to solutions that kind of enrich our ability to grapple with the questions and test solutions down the road. \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: I’m so glad you just jumped in because that’s exactly it. Yes? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Wow. Well\, this has been such a fun interview. And one thing that has\, I’m still really curious about is\, it sounds like a lot of this work is kind of long-term work. Like you don’t necessarily see impacts right away. So I’m curious\, do you have any stories or moments from your work that really keep you going\, or remind you why the work that you’re doing matters? \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: That is such a good point\, and I’m glad you’re asking the [00:36:00] question because that really is the hard part about this work. So much\, you don’t really know. I don’t necessarily see the impact. And yet\, the connections that you build when you hear people’s reflections or you suddenly see someone taking an interest or an action up\, that’s just incredibly affirming. \nAnd yes\, it doesn’t fit into the regular reports that we check on or indicators\, again\, that we can measure. And so what you are sort of reminding me of too is to emphasize this need to continue to build touch points in the long term for people\, but that aren’t necessarily built on just transactions\, but really the transformative aspect of the relationships that are being built. \nAnd I think we can probably do a better job on this. I hope [00:37:00] that we learn how to do this better. There’s only so many hours in the day\, and there are only so many people who are involved in this. And we have only so many resources. \nSo it’s okay\, but it’s definitely something I want to get better at building these conscious long-term relationships and check-in points in a way that are meaningful for everyone involved. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mmhmm. \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I love that. I think sometimes\, especially if you really build a community with a cohort that has an end date\, thinking about transitioning that into long-term relationships is such an interesting challenge. And I can see why\, especially with this kind of a master volunteer setup\, there’s almost a little bit more built-in touch points to make sure you don’t completely lose touch. \nSo I can see how the structure really works for the benefit of the community. And I think that’s not just the community at large\, but the community of [00:38:00] people in the cohort. I think that’s really beautiful. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, let’s end on this. What is giving you hope right now? Is there a story or a moment from your work recently that kind of reminded you why all of this matters? \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Hmm. We recently had a conference where we really focused on the knowledge that was already in the room. So as opposed to having a lot of experts come and speak\, we had an activity that was with four chairs on a stage\, and a question about the future that was\, “What kind of wisdom do you think we will need in the future?” \nOr\, “What do you hope to see in your community in the future?” Or\, “What would really let you know that your community’s well in the future?” \nSo we asked these questions\, and the people who came to the stage and to one of those four chairs were invited to come and speak for two minutes on these questions.[00:39:00]\nAnd I was really worried that no one would get up\, because people feel uncomfortable about public speaking. But we had so many rounds of people to come up and speak and share their thoughts. And there wasn’t one person who talked about material things in that sense. They really all talked about connection\, cultivating relationships\, being in person as opposed to always on the phones or on screens. \nAnd that gave me so much hope to see that people want this. They were all kind of talking about how they long for connection with people in their neighborhoods and communities and opportunities to really get to know each other and having spaces for that. And that gave me a lot of hope. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Hmm. I’ve been feeling [00:40:00] that for a while. \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Mmhmm. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I think people are really kind of hungry for this connection. So\, thank you so much for the work that you do. And of course\, thank you so much for joining us\, Julika. \nJULIKA VON STACKLEBERG: Yes. And you too as well. And the beautiful conversations that you hold on things that matter. I appreciate that. And all the families putting their best foot forward. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Everyone’s just trying their best. No\, thank you so much. \nJulika von Stuckelberg is team leader in family and community development at Cornell Cooperative Extension in Orange County\, New York. And I could just keep talking to you all day. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Well\, that’s it for this episode. Thank you so much for joining us. \nIf you enjoyed today’s episode\, click the share button in your podcast app to share it with a friend. We’d like to thank our announcer\, Kaylin Goble-Mathis\, Maggie Lucas\, and Joyce Vaughn for their help with marketing\, and Nathan Grimm\, who composed and performed all the music you hear on the podcast. [00:41:00] We hope you’ll listen again soon. \nUntil then\, keep practicing. \n  \nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/when-community-works/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260730T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260730T170000
DTSTAMP:20260804T220614Z
CREATED:20260730T100006Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260804T220614Z
UID:10001790-1785391200-1785430800@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Asking Powerful Questions
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The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTU0MTY1NyUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTk1NDE2NTctYXNraW5nLXBvd2VyZnVsLXF1ZXN0aW9ucy5qcyUzRmNvbnRhaW5lcl9pZCUzRGJ1enpzcHJvdXQtcGxheWVyLTE5NTQxNjU3JTI2cGxheWVyJTNEc21hbGwlMjIlMjB0eXBlJTNEJTIydGV4dCUyRmphdmFzY3JpcHQlMjIlMjBjaGFyc2V0JTNEJTIydXRmLTglMjIlM0UlM0MlMkZzY3JpcHQlM0U=[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 31) \nCommunity engagement\, co-creation and collaboration depend on meaningful conversations.  \nAsking the right question is the most effective way of expanding a conversation\, keeping it engaging and making it meaningful. \nIn this replay episode from 2024\, Jessica and Bob share a practice to help us engage people in the meaningful conversations we need to have\, in order to plan and do our work together. \nConnect with us! \n\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]BOB BERTSCH: [00:00:00] Community engagement\, co-creation and collaboration depend on meaningful conversations. Asking the right question is the most effective way of expanding a conversation\, keeping it engaging\, and making it meaningful. Hi\, I’m Bo Burch and welcome to this week’s Practicing Connection Practicast\, where we highlight a specific practice you can use in your life and work. \nThis week’s practice is focused on asking powerful questions. This practice can help us engage people in the meaningful conversations we need to have in order to build relationships and to plan and do our work together. My Practicing Connection co-host\, Jessica Beckendorf\, will be guiding us through a practice to help us build rapport and ask powerful questions in a few minutes. \nBut first\, let’s learn more about it. Jessica\, what is a powerful question? What makes it powerful? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, Bob\, I’m [00:01:00] sure there’s a lot of definitions out there on powerful questions\, but my own\, uh\, very simple definition is that powerful questions are open-ended questions that touch on a person’s motivations\, hopes\, and stories. \nThey’re powerful in part because they recognize that the person answering the question is the expert of their own experiences. They’re also powerful because they connect people through storytelling and authentic curiosity. They’re also powerful because the sharing that occurs when a powerful question has been asked opens up possibilities for more questions\, more conversation and more connection. \nAnd lastly\, I would say that they are most powerful when the person’s intent for asking the question comes from authentic curiosity rather than a desire to lead or control the conversation or to try to make a point\, or [00:02:00] because maybe they’re making an assumption about the other person they’re trying to talk to or about the group that they’re trying to talk with. \nBOB BERTSCH: Yeah\, that’s really helpful. So I’m curious about how powerful questions might have helped you in your work\, especially your work with groups. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I didn’t start out by intentionally asking powerful questions. I didn’t think\, “I do group process work. I’m going to ask them powerful questions all the time and it’s going to be amazing and everything’s going to work all the time.” \nWe all have natural patterns of interaction\, the things that we do automatically when we have conversations. We already know how to communicate is what I’m trying to say based on what we’ve observed or what we’ve already been taught\, either through others or through trial and error our whole lives. \nI was pretty good at small talk\, and I really enjoyed it and I know that’s going to make a lot of people cringe\, but I did\, I was able to build rapport quickly and get from small talk to deeper connections\, but I didn’t know how I did it for a long time. Once I started to understand more about connection and collaborative relationships and how powerful the right questions can be\, I began to use them with intention. For someone who already feels like\, “Ah\, I’m good at that\,” I’m telling you\, it can help you out a lot if you do it with intention. \nThen for someone who feels like\, “Ooh\, I’m not very good at that\,” and she was already natural at it\, so there’s no way that it’s going to work for me\, no\, that’s not true. I know people who it doesn’t come supernaturally to them and they worked at it and it works for them as well. Once I understood this\, I began to use these questions with intention. When I noticed that a group I was working with was struggling\, I would work on finding the right powerful question for the moment. \nIf I was able to\, I would plan several questions ahead of time before going into the situation\, or if I was in the moment\, which happens\, I would pull out a broader question and just trust the group to share. I think that’s so important is when we ask questions\, we have to trust the person to answer from their own experience or trust the people to answer. Sometimes a really well-placed what’s essential right now asked to a whole group or a question like what matters to you in this moment can do wonders for a group that’s stuck\, especially if everyone gets a chance to respond to the question. \nWe know people who are very excited and we also know people who will dominate a conversation. If you can give everyone a chance to answer those questions and respond on their own\, that’s even more powerful. Another way that I’ve used these questions in my group process work has been to infuse connection where it’s been brushed aside. I’ve seen it brushed aside lots and lots of times. \nI think what’s essential here is that without real social connections in the groups that we work with\, we’re just creating more meetings and tasks and obligations for ourselves and meetings and tasks and obligations are all working toward a goal. There’s some meeting there\, but it’s not the same as when there’s also some real social connections being built. \nBOB BERTSCH: You’re going to guide us through the practice a little bit in just a moment\, but I’m just trying to get sort of a context of how these work\, how powerful questions work in practice. For example\, like how many do we need for our conversation and when should we use them? Do I need\, plan out all my conversations in advance so I’m ready with my powerful questions? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I’d say that in practice\, to me\, asking powerful questions begins with noticing what we’re curious about and asking questions about it. It sounds really\, really simple\, but we need to recognize that curiosity and how we engage with it presents itself differently for each person. Some people are wildly curious about people and some aren’t. Some are more curious about ideas or about other things\, about nature. That’s perfectly okay. I’d say that developing your curiosity will help you ask powerful questions more intuitively. That’s why I like to start with curiosity. \nEssentially\, this is about being present too and noticing what your heart and mind are drawing you toward during your interactions with others. \nNotice it and engage with it by asking open-ended questions. So of course\, while you’re working on your curiosity\, I do also recommend starting out by having a couple of powerful questions that you enjoy hearing the answers to and that you’re willing to answer yourself. Never ask a question that you aren’t willing to answer yourself. \nConnecting involves at least some mutual vulnerability. We’re not asking you to\, you know… I certainly wouldn’t start with a question like\, “What’s the most [00:07:00] embarrassing thing that has ever happened to you? ” Don’t ask that question\, especially if you’re not willing to answer it\, but I also wouldn’t start with that question or a question like it. \nAs far as when powerful questions should be used\, the answer’s going to depend on the situation. I think as a general guideline\, if you’re just meeting someone or you’re just getting together for the first time as a group\, you could start by just practicing your noticing and asking skills that I just mentioned a minute ago\, a minute ago\, just to build some rapport. \nSo what you’re noticing about the person or the group that’s making you curious is\, is what I’m talking about when I say noticing and asking. Maybe it’s even something that seems simple\, like something they’re wearing or something that they’ve said about their favorite sport\, right? Those aren’t powerful questions\, but they are questions to kind of ease into\, you know\, the\, the kind of deeper\, deeper questions that we’re trying to get at. \nAnd then\, you know\, to [00:08:00] me\, once there’s a little bit of rapport built\, and this is something that I learned from Chad Littlefield and Will Wise’s work\, they have a book called Ask Powerful Questions. Once that rapport\, there’s a little bit of rapport between people\, that’s when you can get into some more of the powerful questions. \nSo\, I wouldn’t use them before you’ve established just a little bit of rapport in an interaction. \nBOB BERTSCH: Awesome. Thanks. That was really helpful just to kind of get us grounded in sort of what this looks like. So you mentioned you had some steps to walk us through\, so we’d love to hear them. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: All right. \nWell\, the first step is to have a couple of questions that you’ll always kind of remember\, and kind of have with you in the back of your mind. \nThese should be questions\, like I said before\, that you love to hear the answers to and that you’re willing to share your own answer to. [00:09:00] For example\, a question that we often use on this podcast with guests and it’s a question that I really love is\, “How did you get into your field or how did it find you?” \nYou can change up the word field with anything you want. “How did you get into that hobby?” Or\, “How did it find your…” and anything you want that you could fill in there. \nSo how did you get into blank\, or how did it find you? And it’s also good to have a follow-up question\, something like\, “Tell me more about blank. I find it fascinating\,” or\, “It sounds\, that sounds really cool.” Or\, “My grandfather used to do that\, but I never understood how he did X.” \nOr\, you know\, whatever is leading you to ask about it\, but\, you know\, “Tell me more about blank” is another kind of good one to have in the background. \nNow\, if those don’t feel natural to you\, I would recommend making up your own. \nTry to make up questions that sound natural to you\, that start with the words [00:10:00] how or what\, and then have a follow-up question like\, you know\, “Tell me more about…\,” you know\, whatever language you need to use to make it sound like you is what I recommend. So have a couple of questions as step one. \nSecond\, as you’re interacting with someone or with a group\, as you’re building that rapport with them\, you’re having sort of the shorter\, smaller talk\, whatever you want to call it\, you’re meeting with them\, you’re just in a meeting with them\, and maybe any kind of discussion that you’re having\, I want you to find your natural authentic curiosity\, whatever your heart and mind is drawing you toward and you might notice this through a gut reaction. And I would say probably a positive gut reaction like\, “Ooh\, that’s cool. Oh\, I’ve always wanted to learn that and now I know someone who does it.” \nOr maybe through sort of a lightness like\, “Oh my goodness\, so many possibilities. My mind is firing. I’ve got lots of ideas for this person. I’d love to share with them.” Or something that even just [00:11:00] makes you go\, “Hmm\, interesting.” \nYou find that thing\, and then step three is asking an open-ended question about it\, starting with how or what. \nSo\, “Wow\, how did you get into X?” or\, “Wow\, what was your process? What were you thinking about as this was happening?” \nThose are the two questions that it’s so easy to keep a how or what in your mind\, just those two words in your mind as you’re in conversation with someone and you want to get to know them better\, you use those two beginnings of questions to try to propel you to asking a more powerful question than something that might get you a one or two word answer. \nSo\, quick recap. Number one\, have a couple questions to get started. Number two\, when you’re in an interaction with someone\, find that natural authentic curiosity through your internal reactions to what they’re saying\, and [00:12:00] then ask an open-ended question about something that made you curious\, starting with how or what. \nMy advice would be to allow the conversation to go where it goes and enjoy the journey\, and that’s it. Three steps. And now you’re experts. \nBOB BERTSCH: There you go. Thanks. We’re all experts now! Thanks for getting us through that\, Jessica. We really appreciate it. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: You’re so welcome. \nBOB BERTSCH: That’s it for this episode. \nThanks so much for joining us. We hope you’ll give this practice a try and share your experience in the Practicing Connection LinkedIn group\, where people supporting military families practice the skills that empower us to work together so that we can positively impact our communities and help families thrive. \nYou’ll find the link to the group on our website at oneop.org/practicingconnection. Until then\, keep practicing. \n[00:13:00]\nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/asking-powerful-questions/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260723T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260723T170000
DTSTAMP:20260804T165547Z
CREATED:20260723T100057Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260804T165547Z
UID:10001789-1784786400-1784826000@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Finding Your Purpose as a Group\, Four Questions That Can Help
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTQxOTAzMSUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTk0MTkwMzEtZmluZGluZy15b3VyLXB1cnBvc2UtYXMtYS1ncm91cC1mb3VyLXF1ZXN0aW9ucy10aGF0LWNhbi1oZWxwLmpzJTNGY29udGFpbmVyX2lkJTNEYnV6enNwcm91dC1wbGF5ZXItMTk0MTkwMzElMjZwbGF5ZXIlM0RzbWFsbCUyMiUyMHR5cGUlM0QlMjJ0ZXh0JTJGamF2YXNjcmlwdCUyMiUyMGNoYXJzZXQlM0QlMjJ1dGYtOCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRnNjcmlwdCUzRQ==[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 30) \nGetting to a shared purpose as a group often requires digging a little deeper than usual. \nIn this replay episode from 2024\, Jessica and Bob talked about the “chaordic stepping stones\,” a helpful tool for going below the surface with a group\, and share four questions that can help groups work toward a clear statement of purpose together. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\n“You don’t have to be local” by Derek Sivers\n“Keep Going” by Austin Kleon\n\nConnect with us! \n\n\n\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]BOB BERTSCH: Hi\, and thanks for joining us for the Practising Connection Podcast. I’m Bob Bertsch with Jessica Beckendorf. Hi\, Jessica. How have you been? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Hi\, Bob. I’ve been pretty good this week. I actually have a chance to reread an essay by Derek Sivers called You Don’t Have to Be Local. As I was reading that essay\, you know\, not in the middle of it\, but this week when I was reading the essay\, I also happened to receive an email from one of my community development listservs that was really making a lot of statements about how local is everything and we have to keep everything local\, that interacting more with our neighbors and engaging more locally will be better for us in our communities in the long run. \nAnd these two kind of opposing ideas\, you know\, Derek Siver’s idea of you don’t have to be local and\, you know\, the community development listserv saying\, “Local’s everything\,” were kind of playing around in my mind a little bit this week.” And\, you know\, I do believe that engaging more locally [00:01:00] with our neighbors\, with our community is better for us and is better for our communities in the long run. \nBut I don’t know if it’s because I grew up as a military kid or I don’t know what the deal is\, but I’ve never really felt local. And so to me\, it was\, it’s inspiring to read Derek’s words because\, you know\, he’s basically proclaiming that we don’t have to be local if we don’t feel it. We can be global. And\, you know\, I don’t know how I feel yet. \nI think I’m going to keep giving local a try\, but I’ve been thinking about this all week long. You know\, I really do believe in the power of the neighborhood\, but this has been a good reflection and\, you know\, kind of some validating words. If you don’t feel local\, it’s okay because you can be global. \nBOB BERTSCH: I love that. \nAnd I love that you’re accepting\, “Hey\, there’s tension in this and that’s okay.” Yeah. We don’t have to pick one side or the other in this global\, local debate. I’ve been going back to a book that I pulled off of my shelf this week inspired\, by the way\, by our discussion of character [00:02:00] strengths- \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nBOB BERTSCH: in last month’s Practicast. \nAnd the book is Austin Cleon’s Keep Going. Super useful book. I highly recommend it. It outlines 10 ways to stay creative. And one of the ways that I’ve been thinking a lot about this week and right now is forget the noun\, do the verb. And so that’s about letting go of the thing that you’re trying to be\, which is the noun and focusing on the actual work that you need to be doing. \nThat’s the verb\, right? So instead of focusing on\, I want to be a creative person\, or I want to be an innovator\, or I want to be a leader\, which are kind of labels and\, and nouns\, you know\, instead trying to focus on the work that you need to be doing the verb in order to maybe be that\, but I guess that’s changing my focus if I’m focusing on trying to be that\, but just the work\, right? \nSo yeah\, not trying to be a creative person\, but just acting creatively. And so love that book\, and that’s kind of [00:03:00] what I’ve been thinking about this week. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: No\, I love that. And all of Austin Clean’s books are ones that I go back to over and over and over again every time I need a little inspiration\, but I love this idea of you can work creatively within the verb. \nYou can work innovatively within the verb. You can be a leader within the verb. Like\, just do the verb. \nBOB BERTSCH: Just do the verb\, everybody. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Verb\, verb\, verb. Verb is the word. \nBOB BERTSCH: Sorry. Well\, we’d love to hear what you’ve been thinking about and what’s inspiring you. so please share that with us. You can email us practicingconnection@onop.org. \nSo let us know what you’re thinking about\, what’s inspiring you right now. \nSo Jessica\, let’s learn more about finding your purpose as a group. Can you tell us a little bit more about the practice you’ll be sharing and why you chose it? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Of course I can. I love this [00:04:00] practice. I chose a practice from the chaortic stepping stones. I’ll explain a little bit about chaortic because it’s a\, not really a word. \nIt refers to a combination of words\, the words chaos and order. And it was first coined by Dehawk\, the founder of Visa International. The idea is that for change there’s a sweet spot where chaos and order overlap and leadership\, innovation and emergence thrive. \nIf you go too far into chaos\, it can be destructive. And if you go too far toward control\, the environment can be stifling. So the chaotic stepping stones is a series of practices that guide planning and action for groups to address issues that are important to them. It’s not a strictly linear process as each step can be revisited repeatedly and iterated on. \nI’m gonna actually walk through what some people might call the second step\, which is purpose. I chose this [00:05:00] practice because I have found the chaortic stepping stones to be a really helpful tool for going below the surface with a group and that’s because each step in the process is designed to encourage dialogue and connection. \nBOB BERTSCH: Yeah\, I’m excited to hear more about this. Pulling back the curtain a little bit\, we used the chaotic stepping stones when we created this podcast\, when we had the very initial idea\, we went to the stepping stones as a way of kind of really developing that and that’s\, as you said\, one of the early steps\, right\, was finding our purpose. \nSo I’m really anxious to hear about the practice. Could you walk us through it? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, absolutely. Each step in the stepping stones is really kind of a short series of questions that can be used to spur dialogue and develop\, in this case\, a shared purpose. I assembled these from a combination of sources from art of hosting practitioners\, Jerry Nagle\, Kathy Jordan\, and Chris Corrigan. \nHere’s the series of questions. Use [00:06:00] these in a group to spur some dialogue. The first question is\, if this work should live up to its fullest potential\, what do you imagine is possible? What could this work do\, create\, inspire\, and/or result in? What is the next level for our work? Where should we be heading? \nAnd then finally\, what is the purpose we can adopt that will best meet the need we are addressing? So what you would do is have conversations around these questions and record the shared understanding that comes out of those conversations. As a group then\, co-write a clear statement of purpose for the work\, right? \nI don’t recommend that you have one person take the notes from the shared understanding and have that one person write a purpose. I really think the group should do this together\, so co-write a clear statement of purpose for the work\, a statement that will guide the [00:07:00] initial direction. Don’t become too attached to this statement of purpose. \nAs your group starts to deepen your work and make more connections\, expect to make adjustments as you go because you’re going to probably invite more people in. You need to give them a chance also to share their perspectives\, especially if they’re quite different from the group who initially got together. \nSo you can come back to the questions anytime\, expect to make adjustments\, but definitely co-write that statement of purpose. \nBOB BERTSCH: Thanks for sharing that\, Jessica. I love the questions. Just so important\, I think\, to have that shared sense of purpose and speaking from experience\, it’s easy to just assume we have our sense of purpose. \nWe wrote it three years ago. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nBOB BERTSCH: and never revisit it. So\, I love your advice there. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. I actually even think a statement of purpose should be revisited every year\, like regardless of change\, like ask yourself\, is this still the thing that we [00:08:00] can adopt that would best meet the need we’re addressing? \nIs this still that thing? And if not\, how do we need to change it? It’s okay for it to change because our work adapts and evolves as we keep addressing the issue together. \nBOB BERTSCH: That’s it for this episode. Thanks for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode\, click the share button in your podcast app and share it with a friend. \nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/finding-your-purpose-as-a-group-four-questions/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260716T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260716T170000
DTSTAMP:20260804T165018Z
CREATED:20260716T100046Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260804T165018Z
UID:10001788-1784181600-1784221200@oneop.org
SUMMARY:How does a small North Carolina city become a national example of collaboration between military and community?
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\n\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”][Jessica Beckendorf]: Welcome to the Practicing Connection podcast. I’m Jessica Beckendorf. In this episode\, we’re spotlighting a community that has made partnership a central theme\, Havelock\, North Carolina. \nHavelock sits just outside Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point\, which also happens to be one of the largest employers in the region. It’s a place where the city\, the installation\, schools\, and local employers work hand in hand to support service members\, veterans\, and their families. \nThat kind of collaboration does not happen by accident. It takes leadership\, people\, time\, and a deep commitment to community well-being. Our guest today knows that work inside and out. Mayor Will Lewis has served the city of Havelock for nearly two decades\, building strong bridges between the city and the installation. During this time\, he has championed education\, STEM outreach\, and open communication across civilian and military sectors\, all while maintaining typical mayor duties\, like attending community events\, community engagement\, and working to make Havelock stronger. \nMayor Will also leads Allies for Cherry Point Tomorrow\, or ACT\, an organization that began years ago with a single mission: to protect the Fleet Readiness Center East during a round of base realignment. But ACT has since evolved into a nonprofit that uplifts the installation and the surrounding region. So today\, ACT convenes partners to expand access to engineering education\, to grow local employment opportunities\, and create pathways for transitioning veterans\, all with an eye toward long-term community and family readiness. \nThat is quite the introduction. Mayor Will\, welcome to the podcast. It’s such a pleasure to have you here. \n[Will Lewis]: Hey\, Jessica\, thank you for having me. I’m honored to be on your podcast. I’m going to do my best to make that intro do some justice to it. Thank you for that. That was awesome. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Well\, we’ve already had a couple of off-air conversations\, and I fully believe all of the things that we said about you. So let’s get started with the first thing I wanted to ask you\, was that\, you know\, you’ve served as the mayor of Havelock for nearly two decades\, and now you lead Allies for Cherry Point Tomorrow. \nWhen you think about your journey\, what personal values or experiences have most shaped how you show up for military families and the broader community? \n[Will Lewis]: Well\, I mean\, it has been\, this is my 21st year total. I did eight years as a commissioner on the board and this number 13 as mayor. So 21 years\, as you said\, for the city. \nAnd\, you know\, I think like most people who get in a position\, whether for local service\, like local government\, it is about service and it’s about people. It’s about the people in your community. So I grew up here in Havelock. And I’ve been surrounded by Marines and all of our local citizens the whole time. I just wanted to give back. \nSo when I first ran\, the thought was\, “I’m just going to be able to help some people\, whether it’s getting a stop sign right or\, you know\, fixing potholes in a street\, whatever that might be.” I really didn’t know when I first joined the board that there would be this whole component with Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point and taking care of Marines. \nAnd I grew into that. And you kind of saw it a little bit. It’s like when you grow up here\, I tell everybody\, like\, “We’re so fortunate. We live with everyday heroes.” Like\, you’re pumping your gas\, you look over and the person next to you is about to deploy or is training to deploy. We’re a very operational base. \nSo like\, man\, we live with people that protect our freedom. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Yeah. \n[Will Lewis]: So it starts simple\, like just seeing them at a local event and talking to them\, and making them feel welcome when they’re brand new\, because they change out every three years. Making them feel welcome. Then it grew into ways that we can actually affect their lives\, things that we can do for them to make their lives better. So I don’t know that there was like any one thing or activity\, or like realization. It kind of grows on you if you stay here long enough\, I guess. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Oh\, no\, that makes so much sense. And it seems like as it grew on you\, though\, you all had\, maybe it wasn’t a realization\, maybe it just was sort of a baby steps kind of thing that kind of built on each other. But it seems like you realized\, “Oh\, wait\, working together kind of floats all the boats or gets all of the planes in the air\,” however\, whatever metaphor you want to use there. But working together actually helps the wider region. \n[Will Lewis]: Yes. And I think I was fortunate enough to come along when that realization was happening. Maybe just the right place\, right time. Because for a long time\, the world of defense was\, it was always like the base did its thing and the community did their thing. \nAnd then there was like\, you intermingled\, you know\, we all played sports together and whatnot\, but we didn’t think about things like infrastructure together. We didn’t think about water supply. We didn’t think about sewer. We didn’t think about\, “What you can do as a larger community to protect families when their spouse deploys overseas?” \nAnd I think I was at the right place\, right time that all that conversation was starting. And we were able to be a part of that and grow with that thought. So as that thought process grew over the 20 years\, the City of Havelock has just been invested to grow that same way. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Oh\, yeah. And so when you look across Havelock\, the Marine Corps\, Air Station Cherry Point\, and the surrounding region\, you’ve kind of started to allude to this\, but how do you see the military family readiness system operating in real life? Like\, who are the key players? And how do they work together to support service members and their families? You’ve started to mention that they’re doing it\, but yeah\, how do you see this operating? \n[Will Lewis]: Well\, there’s a lot of partners\, right? So I should disclaim by saying anybody I accidentally forget\, you can blame it on my brain\, not on my heart. Because there’s so many ways to help take care of your installation. \nSo ACT\, Allies for Cherry Points Tomorrow\, we really represent a four-county region. So we have Craven\, Carteret\, Pamlico\, and Jones counties. And then all the municipalities that sit in those\, they all participate with ACT. And there’s so many ways that we do it\, all the way from\, for example\, all of our chambers of commerce all have a military affairs commission. And those military affairs commissions do things like service person of the quarter\, where a command recommends somebody and writes a write-up of what they’re doing in the community\, and how they’re volunteering and why they deserve to be service person of the quarter. \nAnd then we do a big lunch and all our local businesses come together\, and they donate things to that person to thank them for what they’ve done in our community in their short time here. And they do things like\, we do these chicken pickings on the base where you pick a squadron\, you go over and you just cook a whole bunch of chickens\, and everybody comes and eats chicken and hangs out with the Marines. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: That sounds like fun. That sounds like a good time. \n[Will Lewis]: They’re a blast. And every chamber has a piece in that. So it happens multiple times a year. I call that like the morale and welfare piece of it. \nBut it goes even\, like\, our schools\, like every one of our schools in Craven County or in Havelock in particular\, we all have a squadron assigned to us. So when they do field day\, the Marines come out and do field day with the kids and the teachers get to meet those Marines. And if they do science night\, they come out and spend time with the kids doing the experiments. So it’s at every level like that. \nAnd it goes all the way up to what I would say the most advanced levels\, which are us as a community trying to understand their needs\, whether it’s inside the installation or out in the community\, and then trying to provide those. \nAnd that could be anything from – perfect example: we didn’t have lacrosse in Eastern North Carolina when I was a kid. Nobody played lacrosse. That was like a Northeast thing. But you get all these Marine families that come here and they came from the Northeast. “Why is there no lacrosse here? We played lacrosse when we were in Maryland\,” or wherever. And the city evolves in that and the community decides\, “Oh\, we do need a lacrosse league.” \nAnd guess who our coaches are\, right? There are all these Marines that have moved here and understand lacrosse. And then our local kids get involved in that. And now we have lacrosse everywhere\, including even at the high school. And so I think the little pieces like that\, because it’s I say in Havelock especially\, you can’t separate Cherry Point and Havelock. We’re like completely intertwined\, right. \nBut even our entire region now is completely intertwined into that. And when everyone’s thinking about what they’re going to do\, they include\, how does this impact the military? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it something they want? \nSo there’s a million ways. And it’s everybody from school systems\, community colleges\, Allies for Cherry Point’s Tomorrow\, chambers of commerce\, even the municipalities themselves\, right. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Wow. Yeah\, that’s one of the reasons why we like doing episodes like this\, where we are uplifting stories of the military family readiness system in action\, like what’s happening in Havelock. We hope that whether you’ve got a Marine Corps air station right next door or not\, we hope that people in communities will ask\, “How might this issue impact military families in our area?” Even if it isn’t the biggest employer in the area\, even if it’s almost invisible. \nAnd we also hope that the folks who are on installations will ask\, “How is the community already addressing certain issues?” And it sounds like you guys really have that relationship down. You’re coming together and you’re making decisions together and you’re doing it in a way that is not just coordinated\, but it’s integrated into everything you do. \n[Will Lewis]: Absolutely\, Jessica\, even our planning committees and our technical advisory committees\, we include people from the installation on that. So we’re talking about traffic or projects. They can give us input to say that’s how it would affect us\, or we think that’s a good idea\, etc. \nAnd I think a lot of it\, it’s because Havelock and Marine Corps Air Station grew together. Like a lot of communities already existed. They were already incorporated. And then a military installation came. For us\, we were here as a community since the 1700s\, 1800s\, but we didn’t even incorporate till 1959. And the base came here in 1942. As the base was growing its identity\, Havelock was growing ours. \nAnd so\, I mean\, it’s kind of like growing up with your brother or your sister. You get a little piece of them whether you want to or not because you’re all growing up together. And I think that’s what made us unique. \nAnd I didn’t know we were unique\, Jessica\, I just thought that was normal. Growing up here\, I just thought every community and their base had that exact same relationship. And it wasn’t until we got involved with the Association of Defense Communities that we realized… that it isn’t. That it is kind of unique. It’s not that way everywhere. \nAnd we’ve tried to do our best to explain how we do what we do and give them a little bit of the magic sauce\, so that other communities can benefit. Because a lot of people look at it as a challenge. I look at it as this complete and total benefit that we have all these Marines and their families and sailors and their families here. It benefits us dramatically\, makes us better as a community. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Yes. Wow\, I really appreciate that comment. So the city and the base grew together\, but also ACT\, the Allies for Cherry Point Tomorrow\, started as an effort to save the Fleet Readiness Center East\, right? During\, I know the acronym is BRAC\, but I cannot remember what it stands for. \n[Will Lewis]: Base Realignment and Closure. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Thank you. And because it’s since become a nonprofit focused on strengthening both the installation and the community. So I’m wondering\, can you share a moment\, and maybe the answer is no\, there is no moment\, it just was a lot of little things that happened over time. But can you share a moment when you realized that ACT’s work was about more than one decision point\, you know\, saving the Fleet Readiness Center East – that it was about building long-term community infrastructure for military families? \n[Will Lewis]: I can talk about when the moment was for me. So I’ve been a part of ACT for\, I guess I’m right at 11 or 12 years on the ACT board. And it was some great individuals that started it long before that in the 90s when you’re talking about them. \nSpecifically\, it got larger around that the whole community coming together to protect Fleet Readiness Center East aboard Cherry Point. But I know that sometimes those decisions were opportunity driven\, and that was ours. So we always knew that we had to advocate on behalf of Cherry Point for the readiness and the mission and making sure that that was all as healthy as it could be. \nBut for me\, it was when the school system came to us at Allies for Cherry Point Tomorrow and we were heavily deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan. And they came to us during the month of April\, which is the month of the military child\, they came to Allies for Cherry Point Tomorrow. \nAnd they said\, “We do these deployment boxes.” And it was\, this box was kind of a lot of\, every branch I think has them\, but it’s got a teddy bear in it in uniform. And then it’s got some stationary to mail back and forth\, and some other things. There’s a book in there\, and it’s to help kids whose parents have to go deploy and go to war. And the school system came to us at ACT\, and I was pretty new on the board and they said\, “Hey\, we’ve got a lot of deployed military right now. We want to get more of these deployment boxes and we don’t have the budget. How could we partner to do this thing?” \nAnd that was when I think it flipped a switch in me that was like\, ‘oh\, we can do more.’ And then I feel like every year it’s like\, we can do more\, we can do more\, we can do more. So we’re always just looking for more\, right. But that was what I realized. Maybe it’s not just about advocacy. It’s also about as a community\, what do we do that kind of rings out bigger and across everybody\, and including these young people because we all\, you know\, a lot of times we forget about the kids. They’re dealing with that deployment just like that spouse that got left behind while they were gone is dealing with it. That was kind of the moment for me that I realized ACT could be a bigger impact in the community even. \nAnd that turned into just constant evolution over the last 10 years. And it’s been everything from us doing the deployment boxes to kick all that off. But then it grew into us providing scholarships at the local community colleges for transitioning military and their families. It grew into a star base. It’s leaps and bounds over the last decade from the idea of just like\, “What’s next? What can we do? How can we do more?” \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Wow. Well\, I mean\, I feel like you’ve already expanded on\, you just gave a whole bunch of great examples of this\, but I’m wondering if you have sort of a favorite example of an initiative where you saw\, maybe it was through ACT\, maybe it was through some other initiative where you saw municipal\, educational\, and military partners come together in a way that really improved readiness for families? \n[Will Lewis]: Sure. The most recent example\, literally\, like the kids actually started this week and I’m going to get super excited. So if I go on too long\, Jessica\, just tell me. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: No\, I want to hear this. I want to hear all the details! \n[Will Lewis]: So we transitioned from a C6 to a C3. As a C6\, we were just an advocacy nonprofit\, but then we became a true nonprofit. And that was really spurred by that moment when it was like\, we want to do these deployment boxes. If we want to do more\, we’ve got to be a real nonprofit\, not just a government advocacy nonprofit. That led to some scholarship things that we do through our C3 for transitioning military\, which have been hugely successful. \nWe’ve raised almost $40\,000 over the last two years. They go directly to our community colleges. We have three of them. And it is for transitioning military\, specifically for things they might want to learn or get a certificate in\, or a degree in that is not covered by the GI Bill. And so workforce items and things like that. And it’s been wildly successful. But the most recent one where everybody came\, this is the one with the most partners. And if you’ve heard of DoD Starbase\, or if you’ve ever heard of – \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Starbase. From you\, I think\, from our last conversation\, yeah. \n[Will Lewis]: So it’s a project or it’s a program within manpower part of the department. And it’s been going on since\, I’m going to say the early nineties\, I want to say the first Starbase started\, but it is a fifth grade STEM education outreach program that is co-located with a military installation. It’s funded through the department. \nAnd then you have a local nonprofit that runs the money and provides STEM education. It’s predominantly for Title I schools\, but it can be for any schools after you get through your Title I schools. And we’ve never had one here. And there are 90 of them across the country\, but there never been one in Eastern North Carolina. FRC East\, which is located aboard Cherry Point\, they have a really big STEM outreach into the community. They go to schools and they have a fab lab they bring around\, and they kind of show kids STEM and try to get them excited. \nSo FRC East was like\, “We need a star base. We’ve got to have a star base.” So we all got in this room about two years ago and it was FRC East. It was our Marine Corps Station Cherry Point leadership. It was Allies for Cherry Points Tomorrow and some school folks. And we said\, “How do we make this happen?” \nSo we filled out an application. We got letters from all of our congressmen\, senators\, both state and federal\, and even our governor got letters from our military affairs commission\, our local superintendents\, and we flooded the department with letters. And eventually they said\, “Yes\, we’re going to make you a Starbase.” \nThere was some funding issues\, always is\, right? Never enough funding to do everything everybody wants to do. But this past year\, they got enough funding to actually start a Starbase here. And so where the real partnership happened was FRC is trying to make this thing happen. They have to have a nonprofit step in to run the money. Well\, ACT’s never been a government contractor. That’s not what we do. But they came to us and they said\, “We think you’re the perfect partner. You’re focused on our kids in the community. You’re focused on our kids in the military. You’re focused on our mission. Would you be willing to partner?” \nAnd so my board said\, “Yeah\, let’s do this thing. Let’s figure it out.” So over about an eight week period with the help of FRC East and the station\, and then we had to kind of go on our own to do the actual government contract. We write the contract submission. We turned it in. It got approved. We worked out a contract. And as of October 1\, we officially have a star base. \nBut to make that happen\, to get these kids in there\, it’s just I can go on and on about the opportunity for the kids because I think it’s an amazing opportunity. But to do it\, it took the command at Fleet Readiness Center East. It took the command at Marine Corps Station Cherry Point. It took Allies for Cherry Points Tomorrow. It took every one of our four school systems\, superintendents and deputy superintendents in charge of curriculum or whatever their title was in each one. It took the buy-in of the principals of those schools because we’re asking them to give us fifth graders for five days\, to get 25 hours of curriculum. That’s a lot of time out of the school building. And so we had to kind of help them understand how exciting this opportunity would be. \nIt is rigorous\, exciting\, unique STEM education that they get to go do hands-on. They call it ‘Hands-on\, minds-on\,’ which – I love that phrase. So they’re literally like building dragsters and making boats out of clay\, and trying to understand all these STEM concepts. And they get to go on the Marine Corps installation to do that as a field trip. They go on the installation to this building that’s dedicated for the Star Base. \nWe even included our community college because Allies for Cherry Point’s Tomorrow had to hire all the teachers and instructors and the director. We don’t have a big employee payroll. So we went to our community college and we partnered with them and they came in and they actually hired them for us. And then they work for ACT. And we have this huge partnership with all of those folks. \nSo you’re talking about eight or ten partners across all these spectrums that had to come together over a very short period of time. So we were awarded October 1. We had kids in the building February 17th. So over October\, November\, December\, and January\, we literally built an entire schoolhouse as a team\, all of us together. And that included furniture\, fixtures\, equipment\, iPads\, computers. Curriculum\, you name it. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Did the curriculum have to be written? \n[Will Lewis]: So the department provides the curriculum. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Oh\, okay\, good. \n[Will Lewis]: But the curriculum\, Jessica\, is massive because they want it to work for any installation. You get to go through the curriculum and pick which ones you want to utilize. And then you’re allowed to customize them to what you do as an organization. \nSo we obviously are focused on some aviation and fabrication type stuff because of what we do. And then we get to kind of tweak the stuff\, but we have to follow that curriculum. So just going through the curriculum for the director and the instructors was a Herculean task to do in a short period of time\, because once they decided what they had to do\, then we had to order all the materials and get them here in time so they could practice. \nSo when the kids walked in the building\, everything would be just right. We were in the building the day before they came in until\, you know\, six o’clock that evening and the weekend before just making sure everything was perfect. So those kids would have a phenomenal experience. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Oh\, and by the way\, in that four-month period of time\, there were also a couple of holidays that a lot of people take off for. \n[Will Lewis]: Yeah\, Thanksgiving\, Christmas. We had a little government shutdown in the middle of all that. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Oh yeah\, we did a little bit\, just a little one. \n[Will Lewis]: Yeah\, right? So all of that combined to make it quite a challenge. We would have never gotten it done. I mean\, there’s no way ACT could have done that. There’s no way FRC could have done it. There’s no way the college could have done it. \nBut all of us coming together\, we pulled this thing off. We are now\, right now\, the only active Marine Corps star base in the country. There’s 90 of them. We’re the only Marine Corps one. There are two other ones in North Carolina. They’re at National Guard locations\, one in Wilmington and one in Charlotte. But we’re the only Marine Corps one. And we got our first kids in this week. And so far it has been phenomenal. And the kids are absolutely loving it\, which has made it all worth all the effort that everybody put in. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Well\, I’m excited that I’m getting to talk to you during the week that this huge initiative is launching because that’s not only a huge task to get done in that short period of time\, but also you must be immensely proud. You and all of the people involved must be so proud. \n[Will Lewis]: Oh\, incredibly. And just the idea that all of our school systems can bring their fifth graders there\, it doesn’t cost them a dime. They just have to come up with the ability to bus them there. And then we provide everything else. \nSo you’re talking about kids that may never get to experience that level of STEM\, get to now come and experience it for 25 hours with people that are super passionate and excited about STEM. \nI would say we’re literally changing lives\, Jessica. There’s going to be at least some kid out of the 1\,800\, by the way\, that we’re going to serve over the next year\, 1\,800 kids\, you know\, at least one\, probably a hundred are going to be like\, “Oh my gosh\, I didn’t know that this was an option\,“ right. \nAnd we have a lot of opportunity for those jobs here with FRC East\, Fleet Riding Center East\, and obviously the Marine Corps and the Navy side of what happens here. So a lot of opportunity for them to then find a career path that keeps them in Eastern North Carolina and gets them excited about STEM. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: And you just touched on the next question I was going to ask you\, is what do you hope will happen in the future? You know\, sort of what are those future outcomes that you hope will happen? And it sounds like one of them is\, ‘Hey\, we really hope that we can not only help some kids find something they’re really passionate about\, they really want to pursue\, but also that they’ll be able to actually pursue that right here at home.’ \n[Will Lewis]: Yes\, ma’am. And so if you don’t mind\, I’ll tell you a little bit about it. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: I don’t mind any of this. Please continue. We’ve talked already. You know I’m riding the wave. I love it. \n[Will Lewis]: So we have\, I think the thing that Eastern North Carolina has done really\, really well is create this sort of STEM ecosystem for kids to go through from starting in fourth grade all the way through high school and even into college. And it started with this organization called the Eastern Carolina Aviation Heritage Foundation. That is a long name. We call the ECAF for short\, but it’s a wing of the city and we started it. I was a commissioner at the time and my mayor assigned me to go over there and help start this ECAF thing. \nWe did not know at the time we would become what we are. We basically are a small museum with some airplanes and some cool stuff for kids to come see and interact with. That’s about the heritage of Cherry Point and Havelock. But what it turned into was we were the first STEM summer camp for fourth through sixth graders in Eastern North Carolina because we realized there was not one. By the time they’re in middle school\, eighth grade\, ninth grade or whatever\, it’s almost too late to get them excited about something new. You want to start a little earlier. \nSo we started this camp and we do 50\, 60 kids. We’ve done as many as 80\, depending on the year. Always have a waiting list. It’s competitive to get into it. And we run this camp through the Havelock\, through our foundation. Well\, then NC State\, North Carolina State University\, land-grant university. I’m a graduate of the North Carolina State University myself. They put a satellite location here in Havelock at our local community college where you can get a four-year degree in mechanical engineering systems. They did that to serve the base. \nSo the base kept asking them\, “How can we get engineers here faster? Because we have over a thousand engineers over there at Cherry Point.” And so they built that system. And so then there was this gap in the middle and the community college stepped up\, and they run a sixth through eighth grade camp. And then we run a high school camp with a partnership with NC State. And then you can get your four-year degree here. So in fourth grade\, if you go to a STEM camp and you’re like\, ‘this is my path\,’ then over the last decade\, you’ve been able to go to a camp every year and get more and more enhanced STEM. \nAnd all those camps work together. So they’re not little silos of STEM. They’re working together so that you’re growing in your capability every single year. And then those kids can go to NC State right here in Havelock\, get a degree\, walk right across the street\, and go to work at FRC East at a job that pays twice the average salary in eastern North Carolina. \nAnd the Starbase is just now a new component of that because all these camps cost a little bit of money. We do have scholarships and things. But the Starbase now opens that door up for people that maybe can’t afford the camp and can get excited about it\, and then figure it out through our camps or through the school system. \nI think\, you know\, my personal opinion\, East North Carolina\, that’s kind of where we’re crushing it. We are a very STEM-related base with operations and then FRC\, and what they do to tear apart airplanes and rebuild them. And we know we’ve got to build that workforce. And now we’ve had kids that started in fourth grade at our camp and went through all the years and then went on to get a degree and are now working at FRC East. And that’s pretty special. \nI don’t know of anywhere else that does it quite that way. We’re having our annual gala tonight\, Jessica. If you’re in town\, you could definitely come with us. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: I would totally do that. \n[Will Lewis]: We’re having our annual gala for the ECAF\, which is the fundraiser that supports that summer camp. And we will fill our local tourist and event center with all the companies and people that support that area. It’s a community buy-in. Everybody in the community supports those summer camps because they know that this is how we’re growing our community into something special. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Wow. Well\, I wanted to talk a little bit about\, so one of the reasons that Havelock stood out to me is your size. What’s the population? \n[Will Lewis]: So right now\, if you ask the state OMB\, they say we’re just over 18\,000. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Okay. Yes. Small city\, regardless. I mean\, even if your population swells certain times of the year\, it’s still a small area. And am I wrong in that you’re in a fairly rural area? \n[Will Lewis]: Yes\, ma’am. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: So that’s one of the reasons Havelock stood out to me\, besides\, of course\, all the incredible work you guys are doing. I wonder your thoughts on sort of the wider region\, and do you see what you all have done in Havelock as something that is at least on maybe different scales replicable in other communities\, right? \nYou’re a small community\, and I’ve worked in a lot of small communities and I know that in small communities\, the human capacity\, the amount of time people can spend on doing all of the volunteer things and doing all\, you know\, really trying to support people in the community is low. And my God\, it’s amazing that people thank you so much. \n[Will Lewis]: And if you look at even our whole region at the four counties that I mentioned\, Craven\, Carteret\, Jones\, and Pamlico\, even the population of all four of those counties combined\, I’m going to guess is in the range of less than half a million of all four counties. \nJones and Pamlico are even more rural than we are. Craven’s a little over 100\,000 and Carteret\, we’re the two biggest. So it’s probably more like 300\,000 total in the area. \nI think the answer\, I mean\, it sounds simple\, but it’s like you said at the very beginning\, it’s a lot of partners. So we noticed when we look across all of our committees at the city and even at the county\, including our ECAF that I just mentioned and Allies for Cherry Points Tomorrow\, there’s a lot of overlap. You’ve got somebody who’s on the ECAF board is also on my ACT board and is also on the Rec Advisory Board and is also on the Appearance Commission and is also on the County Rec Advisory Board. So there’s a lot of overlap. \nOne thing that we found\, and we learned this specifically in ACT and at our ECAF Foundation I was talking about earlier\, the right people matter\, the people that have that passion. You know\, there’s that old thing that says\, “If you want to get something done\, give it to the busiest person you know\, they’ll probably get it done.” There’s some truth to that. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: And it’s so sad\, but also\, yeah. \n[Will Lewis]: A lot of truth\, right? Yeah. I think the secret sauce is pretty simple for this one. It’s getting a unified vision that everybody wants to pull in the same direction. And I think what’s really unique about our area is nobody’s trying to take credit for what’s happened with STEM. \nACT is not running around saying\, “We wouldn’t have STEM if it wasn’t for Atlas Retriever Points tomorrow.” ECAF isn’t saying\, “We started the first elementary school.” \nEveryone just sits down every now and then and talks about what’s missing. What are we doing right? How can we all help each other? And how does that turn into an area that everybody wants to live in? And maybe it’s because we are in a rural area that everybody realizes we have to work together. There’s no competition. \nCherry Point is a $2.6 billion industry to our community. $2.6 billion. Nothing comes even close. There’s no other employer\, like FRC East is over 4\,000 employees. There’s nothing even close in our area. And then you add in the fact that these are everyday heroes that are literally doing the nation’s work to keep us all safe. And it kind of makes it easy to want to help them. \nBut I think you do have to have good leadership. A lot of our good leadership are folks that have maybe retired from the installation and stayed in the community. They realize Eastern North Carolina’s paradise. And then they’re like\, ‘hey\, I want to stay.’ So like the guy tonight that’s going to run our gala is the chairman of our ECAF\, a retired two-star general from Cherry Point. And he has stayed here for decades. Helping us grow Eastern North Carolina. So leadership matters. But I think having a cohesive mission that we all can just say the mission wins\, the mission trumps everything. Yeah. Mission trumps it all. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: There’s no competition here. There’s no – one thing I’ve seen in a lot of smaller populated areas is sometimes there’s this competition for the scarce dollars that are available\, or whatever the scarce resources in general\, the human resources and everything. \nBut it sounds like you guys really have built a culture of collaboration as well. And perhaps that did start with some really strong leadership saying like\, “There’s no ego here. We need to just get the job done and do it together.” \n[Will Lewis]: And define those lanes everyone’s going to swim. And so\, like\, for example\, our Chamber Macs\, they do a phenomenal job at the morale of welfare. ACT has no business getting involved in that. I don’t need to do chicken pickings and I don’t need to do pig pickings and I don’t need to do any of that because the Chamber Macs do a great job. \nSo guess what? They do that and they invite us. And we’re members of the Chamber Mac. So when they do that chicken picking\, we’re going to show up. We’re just going to serve some Marines and we’re going to talk to them. We’re going to have a good time. But they’re the ones that actually do it. \nAnd by the same note\, we’re really good at government advocacy for our base. So they all know that that’s what we’re going to do. So they’re members of our organization and we do the advocacy. So we kind of all understand what our roles are and there’s no need to duplicate efforts. And nobody kind of – we just don’t really fight over that. And I think that helps too is once you’ve got that mission and everyone agrees\, then we can just define what we’re going to do and everyone kind of accepts that. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Wow. Well\, I had a couple of other things I was curious about because\, you know\, you’ve talked about some really big initiatives\, but behind some of those big initiatives\, what are some of the everyday collaboration practices that make initiatives like that possible? \nThings like\, you know\, how you communicate with installation leaders\, or how you engage schools or employers. Or how you keep veteran and family voices in the mix. So what are some of the small kind of everyday things you all do? I know one of them you mentioned already that when there’s an issue\, you all sit down and you’re like\, ‘how does this affect the military families?’ But what are some of those other small collaboration practices? \n[Will Lewis]: One thing I know that we do really well is we talk to our base leadership all the time. So\, for example\, I talk to our base CEO\, our commanding officer. He and I talk multiple times a week. And it could be really simple stuff. Like he just might be calling me to say\, “Hey\, we’re going to do some work outside the gate. It’s going to probably slow traffic down in Havelock. You may have an issue with these lights. Just letting you guys know.” \nAnd it could be something we’re doing in town\, “Hey\, did you know this was going to happen? It’s probably going to affect you guys.” So it’s like very mechanical infrastructure things. But also it’s just like\, “Hey\, what’s going on this Saturday night? Do you guys want to come out to the club and we’ll just eat supper together and talk about what’s going on inside and outside the gate?” Kind of that more informal\, just getting to know each other. \nI think everything in the world comes down to relationships. As a mayor\, that’s probably not a hard thing to guess that I would say that. But I also say the relationship has to be real. And so those touch points where you’re just like catching a quick meal together or\, you know\, when the new CEO comes to town and you’re just like\, “Hey\, you and your family should come out and check out this restaurant. It’s a great one out in town. When you go\, give us a holler. We’ll meet you over there.” Those things are important. \nBut I think even further down in the weeds\, I know in Havelock\, for example\, our departments are talking to their departments every day\, right? So I don’t know what my police department’s doing today. I mean\, I know that they’re protecting and serving\, but I don’t know what they’re actually doing. But they’re talking to the PMO\, the Provost Marshal’s Office on the base\, and they’re coordinating traffic and they’re coordinating what’s happening in and out of the community. And they’re talking about different things that I don’t even know about every day\, but it keeps that relationship solid between the base and the city. \nAnd then from the bigger picture of Allies\, Triple H\, Tamar\, and the counties\, we have this really cool committee that the base started. It’s called the Civilian Military Community Council\, the CMCC. And once every two months\, our base hosts one representative from every municipality and county. And the municipality and county gets to pick who they send. It’s typically a mayor or a county commissioner. We all go have lunch together on the base. And when we do\, the base CO brings in all the commands and they just give you a quick brief. What’s happening? What’s going to happen in the next couple of weeks? What can you expect at the base? That sort of thing. \nAnd then the community gets to report to the base the coolest stuff going on in their community. So they say\, “Hey\, we got a grant to put in a sidewalk over here. We’re going to be doing that next week.” Or\, “We’ve got a kayak launch. We know all your Marines like the kayaks. We got a kayak launch. It’s going to be open October 4th\,” whatever. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: I didn’t know Marines like to kayak. That’s great to know. \n[Will Lewis]: Anything\, you know\, I mean. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Outdoor stuff\, yeah. \n[Will Lewis]: Yeah\, anything outdoors. So everybody kind of gets to say like what they love about what’s going on. And typically you’ll hear things like other mayors\, like I talk to the CO every day\, but other mayors don’t necessarily get that if they’re not right by the base. So they’re like\, “Hey\, thank you guys for sending Marines out to serve at our local festival. They came out and they played games with the kids and they helped serve food and it was so much fun. Thank you for that.” \nI think that is a big one and I can take zero credit for that. That was started a long time ago by a base commanding officer and it has become expected by our community. Everybody loves the CMCC. Some local boards\, their members fight over who gets to go\, because you want to go and you want to hear that brief and you want to brag about your city. It gives you those subtle touch points again where everyone kind of gets to know each other a little bit. \nThe CEO gets to know communities that aren’t even right outside his gate. I mean\, I can throw a baseball from my office to the main gate. So we talk all the time. But if you’re 20 miles away\, 30 miles away\, that’s not the case. So that’s another tool in our toolbox that we all use as a community to stay connected. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Wow. I feel like if we looked at a network map of all of these relationships\, that there would be a lot of back and forth and a lot of connections. It sounds like there’s a lot of touch points. And I think that’s rare. It kind of brings me to another question. \nSo if there wasn’t an installation near you\, I guess I’m wondering\, like\, there’s still a value we know in supporting military families in an area. Like what advice\, I guess\, would you have for community leaders who maybe don’t have an installation near them and the value of supporting military families? \n[Will Lewis]: So this is\, I like to remind people that I think that people think that if you’re in the military\, your life is pretty easy. Like you just get a paycheck. You go to work every day. \nSo the first thing I always remind my community is it’s as hard as any other job\, probably way harder. And it’s as hard on the family\, especially when we’re in deep deployment cycles. And it really doesn’t matter if you are 100 miles from a base or not. \nI think just being cognizant of the fact that they are actually\, people are like\, “Oh\, if they’re not in war\, what are they doing\, man?” And it’s such a complicated organism of what they do to protect us and to train and to be a part of the\, you know\, what Marines like to call the “kill chain\,” like to be some part of that kill chain. \nAnd so when you look at that big picture\, I think people should understand\, first of all\, that not only are they working for a living\, but they’ve chosen service\, right? Like all of us have a job. They chose to sign a check to give up part of their life for the United States of America. So like\, let’s just stop first and respect that. Whether you have a base in your community or not\, let’s respect that. Especially if you didn’t choose to do it\, like let’s respect that they’re willing to do that. \nAnd then think about how does that impact their life? I mean\, they move every three years. In the Marine Corps\, they’re moving every two to three years. So you’re packing everything you own up. You’re trying to make weight on the shipment. You’ve got to get rid of things. You’ve got to decide what to keep. You’ve got to get your kids in a brand new school. All those things are a challenge for a family. \nSo if you’re close to one\, it’s easy to remember that. If you’re not close to one\, it’s a little more difficult. I think if you’re close to one\, or you’re not\, spend some time trying to understand that. And sometimes the easiest way is just to have a conversation with someone you know that’s either in the military or used to be in the military\, and they can tell you some of those challenges. Once you understand that\, I think the rest of it falls into place. \nThen you can find ways where you can kind of get in where you fit in to try to alleviate some of that pain\, or provide something for them that makes their life a little easier. Like\, for example\, Craven County Schools put military counselors in all of our schools. So when those kids come here\, there’s a dedicated counselor that they sit down with the family and they talk about where their credits came from. Because I mean\, some of these kids come from overseas and they just got credits there that don’t just necessarily match up to what you’ve got. \nAnd picking that military counselor\, that was a big deal for our school system to do that. And I mean\, money’s short\, right? And I think if you understand the challenges\, you can find solutions in that way. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Yeah. I used to work in a county that was pretty far from an installation. And the county veteran service officer was really working hard\, trying to work with the sheriff’s department on sheriff’s deputies carrying challenge coins with them. \nAnd to start asking\, you know\, are you a veteran? When they would arrive at calls\, you know\, asking\, are you a veteran? And giving them some training on how to use the challenge coins and how to talk to veterans. And I bring this up because I think\, you know\, whether you’re far\, we were in a county that was very far from installation. I know that veterans are everywhere\, but we also know that military families are too. \nAnd so even just the simple act of asking the families that you serve\, or asking\, “Do we have military families in this area that this issue would also affect?” seems like it would possibly go a long way\, based on what you’re saying. \n[Will Lewis]: Yeah\, that’s a really cool example. And it’s a reminder\, too\, that some of these military folks just go home when they’re done\, right. So I always try to convince them to stay in Eastern North Carolina\, because we want them to stay. But some of them were like\, “Hey\, my family’s in Alabama and that’s where I’m from. I’m going to move back to this area”. \nAnd they get back there and there’s no military base close. But when they come back to that school system\, their kids still have the same struggle. They still have the same opportunity to engage with the sheriff’s department or wherever when they go back home. And even if that’s a small percentage\, it’s a percentage we should pay attention to\, in my opinion. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Yeah. I agree. \nMayor Will Lewis\, thank you so\, so much for your conversation. I’ve enjoyed every one of them\, whether they were recorded or not. I really appreciate hearing about everything that Havelock is doing\, but also just your dedication and passion for serving the military families in your area. So thank you so much for being here. \n[Will Lewis]: Oh\, it was my pleasure. I love talking about it because I can’t even imagine if I was going to be a mayor. I love being the mayor of a town that hosts a military installation. I love it because I get to take care of my own citizens\, plus people that are sacrificing for the world that are also my citizens. I think it’s a special opportunity and I love talking to people about it. \nSo thank you for having me\, Jessica. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Mayor Will Lewis is the longtime mayor of Havelock\, North Carolina\, and president for Allies for Cherry Point Tomorrow. \nThat’s it for this episode of Practicing Connection. Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed today’s conversation\, share it with a friend or colleague. \nWe’d like to thank our co-producer\, our announcer\, Kaylin Goebel\, Meg Lucas and Joyce Vaughn for their help with marketing\, and Nathan Grimm\, who composed and performed all the music you hear on the podcast. We hope you’ll listen again soon. Until then\, keep practicing. \nThe Practicing Connection podcast is a production of One Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, U.S. Department of Agriculture\, and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, U.S. Department of Defense\, under award number 2023-48770-41333.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/collaboration-between-military-and-community/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260709T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260709T170000
DTSTAMP:20260804T213248Z
CREATED:20260709T100015Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260804T213248Z
UID:10001787-1783576800-1783616400@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Applying Systems Thinking to Local Issues
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTQxODY2MiUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTk0MTg2NjItYXBwbHlpbmctc3lzdGVtcy10aGlua2luZy10by1sb2NhbC1pc3N1ZXMuanMlM0Zjb250YWluZXJfaWQlM0RidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTQxODY2MiUyNnBsYXllciUzRHNtYWxsJTIyJTIwdHlwZSUzRCUyMnRleHQlMkZqYXZhc2NyaXB0JTIyJTIwY2hhcnNldCUzRCUyMnV0Zi04JTIyJTNFJTNDJTJGc2NyaXB0JTNF[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 28) \nWhat is the value of using a systems lens in community work? \nIn today’s archive episode\, we are hearing from Bob and Jessica about solving issues in your community on a systems level\, not just on a focused project level. \nIt’s easy to get caught up in a silo\, or to talk past each other. While hyperfocusing on one event or initiative in your community can have great results\, it can also cut you off from system changes that have a greater impact on your community. \nSo what can you do to help you and your community start thinking about the whole system? Jessica and Bob have some great places to start. \nOur From the Archive series is where we update and rerelease retired content that we feel is still relevant today. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nMilitary Family Readiness Academy: oneop.org/mfra\n\nConnect with us! \n\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: [00:00:00] Hi\, thanks for listening to Practicing Connection. I’m Erin and today we’re diving into an episode about how to solve local problems using systems thinking. This episode is part of our From the Archive series where we are updating and re-releasing retired content that we feel is still relevant today. \nIn this episode\, we’re hearing from Bob and Jessica about how to solve issues in your community on a systems level\, not just a focused level. It’s easy to get caught up in a silo to talk past each other or to hyper-focus on just one project. And while hyper-focusing on one project or event or initiative can make a huge impact on your community\, it can also cut you off from systemic changes that can have a greater impact on your whole community. \nSo what can you do about it? What can you do to help your community start thinking about the whole system? Jessica and Bob have some great places to start in this episode. I hope you enjoy it. \nBOB BERTSCH: [00:01:00] So Jessica\, a couple of episodes ago\, we talked about the Community Capital’s framework\, which brings a systems lens to community development. And by that\, I think I mean that it recognizes that there are multiple factors that influence community development and that those factors are interconnected in some way. \nSo that might seem kind of obvious to some people\, so I’m wondering\, given all your experience helping people address local issues\, whether the groups you’ve worked with already recognized that local issues have multiple interconnected factors or not\, I mean\, was a systems lens obvious to any of the groups that you worked with? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, this is a really great question because it really depends on the group and what they’re coming together around. Some groups\, at least with my experiences\, some groups have been hyper-focused on generating more traffic for the local businesses\, for [00:02:00] example\, and they might tap into things like event planning\, but don’t think about how that could also have a positive impact on social capital and that having more eyes on the built capital in the area might affect decisions on how the community’s political body might spend resources like starting a facade improvement program\, for example. \nThere’s nothing wrong with being hyper-focused on generating more traffic for the local businesses and not thinking about those other things. There’s nothing wrong at all with focusing on one goal\, but there could be some secondary goals that you could design for. Like how can you design for more interaction between the businesses and the people attending the events? \nHow can you strengthen the relationship versus just getting people physically nearby the businesses? Other groups\, and\, and I would say I’ve seen this particularly when those that are coming together are working to address a health-related issue\, whether that’s mental health\, homelessness\, social isolation\, or some other community health concern\, or like food [00:03:00] systems. \nThey seem to have an awareness of systems and the interconnections that you’re talking about\, but these groups can still experience blind spots\, but overall they’ve been aware. Now that’s just been from my experience\, other parts of the nation\, other people who do this work\, you know\, there’s probably a whole slew of answers you could get for this. \nBOB BERTSCH: So that’s really interesting. You know\, one of the things that we build groups of like- minded people\, hopefully that’s what we have here in practicing connection in terms of the folks who listen to the podcast\, and of course you and I and everybody who has partnered and has contributed to the\, to the podcast\, you know\, we kind of feel like a little community and I just wonder about it because I think then we make assumptions\, either one way or the other\, maybe we make assumptions like\, “Oh\, everybody has to be able to see this. \nOr maybe we make assumptions that\, “Oh\, people who are not like us can’t see this or something.” Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think it’s really interesting to hear your experience and\, and see that it’s kind of been multiple ways. So\, you know\, I know obviously I just talked about how we share\, you know\, [00:04:00] some similar points of view around this. \nSo I’m assuming in some cases you might have wanted to bring some systems thinking to the table and I’m wondering what was the most challenging part of trying to do that to bring systems thinking to these local efforts that you were helping with? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Wanted to attempted to was shut down sometimes. So from my experience\, it has been the aspect of co-creating solutions with the people most as affected. \nYou know\, I’ve seen many groups of well-meaning\, very caring people get together and want to create positive change. They might have some conversations\, they might end up developing some group norms\, they might have several meetings together and that through even just having those meetings\, they start to develop these norms even if they don’t talk about them. \nThey might even choose some possible approaches that they plan to take together. Those are all wonderful\, wonderful things. But when they’re asked about [00:05:00] how they’ve engaged with the people most affected by the issue or how they’ve engaged with others that are not present\, there can be a significant amount of pushback. \nAnd I’ve had like very significant pushback in the past and I’ve had others say\, “Oh\, good question. We didn’t mean to\, you know\, we didn’t\, we didn’t mean to be exclusive.” But I’ve seen this pushback\, particularly when they’ve been asked about engaging with every audience pretty much from like low income populations\, you know\, how are you engaging with them? \nThey’re most affected by this\, even the guy that owns the tattoo parlor downtown with the strange window displays. Sometimes I’ve seen a glimmer of understanding. They know they need to engage more with others\, but they aren’t sure how and maybe lack the will to because sometimes because they’re judging the other person even when they’re trying to resist judgement \nSo I like to use the example of the guy with the tattoo parlor because that’s something that I’ve actually seen in [00:06:00] several different occasions. You know\, the store that’s a little bit edgy that has like edgy displays\, they’re really\, you know\, kind of making a judgement on how that person has chosen to run their business and how that person is trying to attract people who would come to their business. \nSo a lot of times they’re not sure how to get beyond the things that are pulling them back\, including their own judgement \, even when they’re willing. So the other part of this that I started to talk about a little bit ago is that this group of well-meaning\, thoughtful people get together\, they start to choose that path forward before they’ve done much engaging. \nthey might have done a survey\, but that’s not the same as relationship building and committing to the struggle. Ignoring the guy with the tattoo parlor just adds to the division. Ignoring the relationship work and doing things for people versus with them further exacerbates differences and doesn’t work toward liberation.[00:07:00]\nBOB BERTSCH: So as we’re trying to move groups forward\, are there specific tools or processes that you’ve used in groups to move them towards a systems approach or a more liberated structure? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, I think any tool or process that will help people have more understanding for each other and more understanding for how an issue affects different people is going to be really\, really useful. \nOne thing I didn’t say as we were talking\, you know\, a minute ago is that when I have seen pushback because\, a group is trying to positively affect or create some positive change for\, for instance\, a low income population and when you bring up like\, “Oh\, how are we going to engage with this population?” Sometimes you hear things like\, “Well\, but this issue\, you know\, doesn’t really have a face that kind of affects all of us at one point in our lives\,” or something like that. \nYou hear things like that. And [00:08:00] so I think anything that helps people understand how an issue affects different people who have had different backgrounds and different upbringings is going to be really great. So there are many tools that do this. I’m going to share an unconventional one that I’ve adapted from someone whose work I admire very much and who we’ve had as a guest on this podcast\, Bjorn Peterson. \nHe developed the cycle of Praxis for community development. I always tell him it has a terrible name\, sorry\, Bjorn has a terrible name\, but it’s a super simple process. It sounds very fancy\, but it’s a beautiful\, simple process. I pair the idea of having everyone gathering about an issue share their lived experience\, which is at the start of the cycle of practice. \nI pair that with different variations of activities from applied improv called story circles\, which are also beautifully simple practices\, which allows some space and time [00:09:00] for everyone in the circle to share their story without interruption or questions or judgement . So here’s the simplest version I’ve used of this activity\, but there’s\, there’s a few others that I think are wonderful for moving past understanding and getting toward action\, but we’re going to start with the\, the first one. \nHave everyone sit in a circle if possible. Then you’re going to want to call out identify the need that you’re coming together around. Usually if you’re having a meeting with people\, there’s a purpose that you’re having that meeting for. So talk about the purpose\, the issue that you’re coming together around and then have each person get a few minutes to share a story about their personal experience with the issue. \nHow has it affected them personally And you’d probably want to ask it more personally like share a story about your personal experiences with this issue. How has it affected you personally? After everyone has a chance to share and mind you\, there’s no asking questions [00:10:00] like people are just listening to each other\, no asking questions\, no comments\, side conversations. \nIt is quiet people are sharing. After everyone has had a chance to share\, collaboratively articulate two things. What diversity exists among these lived experiences? What similarities exist? Take a look at those things\, write them up on a board or papers or however you want to do it. Take a look at those lists and then ask\, is there someone whose experience needs articulation but who is not present\, who is currently not present? \nWho is this? How can we successfully invite their participation into this process? It’s not how can we successfully get them to participate\, get them to join our effort? How can we successfully invite their participation in this process? Finally\, you’re gonna analyze whether having heard all of these lived experiences\, how you might need to [00:11:00] re-articulate that need that you identified at the top before everyone shared their stories. \nHow do you need to articulate that? How do you need to describe it? Be willing to adjust this also as you gain more participation and learn more about the lived experiences of others so if everyone in the room is coming from a fairly similar background and you start to gain more information about how your issue affects other people\, be willing to tinker with the need. \nIt is actually a really simple process\, but it’s definitely full of complexity in that everyone’s rich stories have a chance to be part of creating the solutions. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That’s it for this episode. Thanks for joining us. If you enjoyed this topic or you feel like you still have more questions about what it means to actually deal with systems level thinking\, join us for the Military Family Readiness Academy this year. Every year our host organization One Op puts on the Academy a series of free [00:12:00] interconnected professional development webinars and podcast episodes that are focused on a central theme. \nThis year’s theme is building community capacity to support military family well-being. Our guests will go in deeper on topics similar to what we discussed today with practical advice grounded in what’s happening in the communities right now. The academy starts with a session on collective competence\, the idea that the communities best support military families when infrastructure and resources are intentionally designed with those families in mind. \nOn-demand recordings will be available after each session so there’s flexibility even if you can’t join us live this August. If you’d like to check out the academy\, visit oneop.org/mfra or check out the link in our show notes. We’ll be back next week. Until then\, keep practicing. \n[00:13:00]\nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/applying-systems-thinking/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260702T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260702T170000
DTSTAMP:20260706T133751Z
CREATED:20260702T100014Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260706T133751Z
UID:10001780-1782972000-1783011600@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Leveraging the Community Assets to Support Military Families
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTQxODE5NSUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTk0MTgxOTUtbGV2ZXJhZ2luZy10aGUtY29tbXVuaXR5LWFzc2V0cy10by1zdXBwb3J0LW1pbGl0YXJ5LWZhbWlsaWVzLmpzJTNGY29udGFpbmVyX2lkJTNEYnV6enNwcm91dC1wbGF5ZXItMTk0MTgxOTUlMjZwbGF5ZXIlM0RzbWFsbCUyMiUyMHR5cGUlM0QlMjJ0ZXh0JTJGamF2YXNjcmlwdCUyMiUyMGNoYXJzZXQlM0QlMjJ1dGYtOCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRnNjcmlwdCUzRQ==[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 27) \nWe talk a lot on this podcast about the importance of collaborating with others in your community. \nBut if you are finding yourself overwhelmed or with limited capacity\, this framework and practice are a great way to get started. You don’t have to make everything happen yourself! \nThis episode is specifically about the Community Capitals Framework and how to get connected with the assets that already exist in your community. Jessica and Bob discuss how this framework identifies seven types of capital and how these capitals can be leveraged to build resilient and supportive communities for military families. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nStrategic Doing\nHolding Change\nCommunity Capitals Framework\nSpiraling-Up: Mapping Community Transformation with Community Capitals Framework\nMilitary Family Readiness Academy: oneop.org/mfra\n\nRelated episodes: \n\nFeeding Military Families with Stronghold Food Pantry CEO Monica Bassett\nAn Ecosystem of Military Family Support with Nicola Winkel\nPartnering on Early Education for Military Kids\nReconnecting with Nature: Health and Well-Being for Military Communities (webinar)\n\nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: [00:00:00] Welcome to Practicing Connection. I’m Erin\, and today we’re diving into an episode about leveraging community assets as part of our From the Archive series. In this series\, we’re updating and re-releasing retired content that we feel is still relevant today. This episode is specifically about the Community Capital’s framework or how to get connected with the assets that already exist in your community. \nWe talk a lot on this podcast about the importance of collaborating with others in your community\, but if you’re finding yourself overwhelmed or with limited capacity\, this framework and practice are a great way to get started. You don’t have to make everything happen all by yourself. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Today\, we’ll be talking about using a tool from Community Development\, the Community Capitals Framework\, to inform your work with military families. Later on\, we’ll share a practice to help you utilize the community capitals. \nHi\, Bob. How are you? [00:01:00]\nBOB BERTSCH: I’m doing well. Thanks\, Jessica. It’s good to be with you. I’m excited to talk about Community Capital’s framework. It’s been something that has been part of community development for a long time. It’s a great framework for taking that asset-based approach\, which we often talk about strengths-based or asset-based approaches to development. \nI recently read a book that actually draws a lot from asset-based community development and applies that to the concept of agile leadership. The book is called Strategic Doing\, and the authors take concepts like identifying assets and linking and leveraging assets along with ideas from the agile method of project management\, if you’re familiar with that. \nAnd then they frame those as leadership skills that can help us navigate complex challenges by strengthening our shared skills for collaboration. It’s really interesting. There’s a lot of crossover with our work on the Practice and Connection Initiative\, so it’s been validating a little bit. [00:02:00]\nAnd it also surfaced\, some different skills and strategies that we might wanna bring to our work. And when I say that\, our work as the Practice and Connection producers and team\, but also our work as military family service providers\, really great book and really enjoyed it. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I did dig back into that. \nI read that book a while ago and enjoyed learning about the concepts\, but\, hearing you describe it the way you’re describing it\, makes me think I should take another look and maybe\, feature some of the practices here and there\, on the podcast maybe. I’ve actually been digging into a book myself. \nI\, lately\, I think I’ve been talking a lot about a lot of yard work on this podcast and television shows. I’ve been digging into Adrian Marie Brown’s book\, Holding Change. Right now\, I’m reading a part about fractal facilitation. I’m a facilitator and love facilitating. She talks about [00:03:00] how most group changes happen in small ways. \nSo we’ve talked about this before about change happening in fractals. And what she says is that every practice\, ritual\, and action a group takes is\, as she puts it\, a small-scale way to grow or shrink its own realization of its espoused mission and values. An interesting part of this for me is that what you might think of as a baby step or a small scale change might actually feel like it’s a huge change to someone else. \nSo if I think something’s really small\, you might be like\, “What are you talking about\, Jessica?” That’s way too scary. That’s way too huge of a change. And it doesn’t surprise me and I feel like it’s something that some of us maybe intuitively know and yet we gloss by that a lot. And so it was a really good reminder to remember to do some perspective taking when it comes to group work. \nBOB BERTSCH: That sounds awesome. I haven’t read Holding Change yet. I’m [00:04:00] looking forward to doing that. I’m a big Adrian Marie Brown fan. Thank you for this great recommendation and insight into holding change. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: All right\, Bob\, let’s dig into this. The Community Capital’s framework is what we’re here to discuss today. It was developed by Jan and Cornelia Flora\, two well-known names in our world\, the community development and organizing world. It’s a systems approach to understanding and fostering community development. \nThe framework identifies seven key types of capital that contribute to the health and resilience of communities. These capitals include natural\, cultural\, human\, social\, political\, financial\, and built capital. You could think of it this way. Families face different challenges\, and of course\, military families face some [00:05:00] unique challenges\, which can be difficult to tackle alone\, but what if we could tap into the strengths of the entire community to address those challenges? \nThat’s what the community capitals framework can help us do. So today\, we’re gonna explore each capital and how you can use this framework to think strategically about collaboration and resource utilization. \nBOB BERTSCH: So let’s start with social capital and that is the connections and relationships within a community. \nThat’s what social capital is. For military families\, building a support network is essential\, as you guys know. And as a service provider\, you can understand and assess the existing social capital in the community to inform that. Are there strong neighborhood associations\, local support groups\, nonprofits serving military families\, social clubs\, or strong online groups that you know of? \nBy connecting families to these networks\, you’re not just providing immediate support potentially\, but you’re embedding them into a [00:06:00] broader community that can offer ongoing assistance. And one great example of this is the stronghold food pantry that was started by Monica Bassett at Fort Leavenworth. \nWe discussed this in an interview with Monica in a previous episode. The pantry not only provides essential food sources to military families\, but also fosters a sense of community and belonging. Through the stronghold food pantry\, Monica leveraged social capital\, by creating a space where military families could connect\, support each other\, and build stronger community ties. \nThe pantry’s success wasn’t just about the food\, although that was very important\, but also came from strengthening the social fabric of the community and building that social capital. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. I love that example. This also makes me think of our episode with Nicola Winkle\, called an ecosystem of military family support. \nIn this episode\, Nicola emphasized how social capital was central to building an [00:07:00] interconnected ecosystem of support for military families. By fostering relationships across various organizations\, military and civilian alike\, this network created a web of support that addressed the diverse needs of military families\, ensuring that they had access to the resources and connections they needed at every stage of their journey. \nI’ll roll right into financial capital and political capital. Many families face financial challenges\, but resources can be scattered across different organizations. Who else in your community cares about providing access to financial resources? For example\, are there any existing coalitions working to influence policy and streamline access to financial support for families? \nWhich leaders can you connect with? In our episode about establishing a transitional early education programme for families at Malmstrom Air Force Base\, we saw how financial and political capital played a role. The base worked closely with the local education providers at the Great Falls [00:08:00] Public School District and community leaders to improve access to quality early childhood education for military families. \nThis collaboration didn’t just provide immediate educational benefits\, it also strengthened the overall wellbeing of the community by investing in the future of its youngest members. \nBOB BERTSCH: So the next two capitals are human and cultural and they’re closely linked. Human capital refers to the skills\, knowledge\, and health of individuals and cultural capital encompasses the shared values\, traditions\, and practices within a community. \nWhen you collaborate with educational institutions\, healthcare providers\, and cultural organizations\, you’re tapping into both human and cultural capital. Again\, in the example of the Momstrom Air Force Base\, it illustrates this by partnering with local schools and early childhood programmes. The base not only enhanced human capital by providing essential educational services\, but also respected and integrated the unique [00:09:00] cultural aspects of military life\, ensuring that these services were relevant and supportive of military families. \nActually\, going back to the episode with Nicola Winkle\, the culture of military families\, their shared experiences\, values\, and resilience was central to that collaboration’s success in Arizona. The network of organizations that were involved recognized that military families bring unique cultural strengths such as adaptability\, a strong sense of duty and deep understanding of service. \nAnd by acknowledging and integrating those cultural aspects\, the organizations were able to create services that truly resonated with military families\, making the support they offered more effective and meaningful. For instance\, programmes were tailored to address the frequent relocations and deployments that military families experience\, ensuring that support systems were flexible and responsive to their specific needs. \nSo this focus on cultural capital not only made the services more [00:10:00] effective\, but also strengthened the trust and engagement between military families and the service providers leading to more meaningful and lasting support. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Next\, let’s talk about built capital\, the infrastructure that supports daily life such as roads\, houses\, schools\, hospitals\, the fun stuff like sewer and water\, and of course\, internet access. \nWhat are the needs and what are the assets in your community around the built capital? By collaborating with local governments and other community leaders\, you can advocate for the creation or improvement of infrastructure that meets the needs of the families you serve\, including your own. In Tampa Bay\, the Chamber of Commerce brought together leaders from the military\, business\, government\, and nonprofit sectors to address a number of quality of life issues affecting military families\, including working on a project to create ferry service to MacDill Air Force Base\, which would reduce [00:11:00] commute time for service members. \nIt’s a great example of working together to enhance the built capital of a community. \nBOB BERTSCH: So finally\, let’s talk about natural capital. Everyone can benefit from access to natural spaces\, parks\, trails\, and other outdoor recreational areas. \nThese spaces can have big impacts on physical and mental wellbeing. Working with environmental organizations and local governments can help protect and enhance these natural assets\, making them more accessible for all families. And I know that military installations have been part of that\, protecting these natural assets and fostering environments and habitats for all kinds of different animals on land that is owned by the military. \nThere are therapeutic benefits of connecting with nature. Some healthcare providers are issuing nature prescriptions\, a recommendation to spend time in nature to improve a patient’s health and wellbeing. The One Op webinar\, Reconnecting With Nature\, [00:12:00] Health and Wellbeing for Military Communities talks about these nature prescriptions and how military family practitioners can help their clients in accessing and experiencing the personal and community resilience enhancing attributes of the natural capital in our communities. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: All right. I think we’re ready to share the practice or just about ready\, actually. I have a few notes. Before we share the practice\, I think it’s important to note that one of the most powerful aspects of the community capital’s framework is its emphasis on interaction. No form of capital exists in isolation. \nSo for example\, improving the built capital\, the infrastructure of a community like better access to public transportation or broadband can directly enhance the financial and human capital by providing better access to jobs and educational resources. So I really wanna emphasize the interactivity between the different capitals and with that\, [00:13:00] Bob\, I’m gonna turn it over to you to walk us through the activity. \nBOB BERTSCH: Yeah\, I would love to do that\, but as is my nature\, I have to interject\, And just build on what you were saying\, because that’s a\, it’s a great point and there is a seminal paper called Spiralling Up\, that talks about the Community Capital’s framework\, by Mary Emery and Cornelia Flora\, who is one of the creators of the Community Capital’s framework. \nAnd really what it shows is that just like Jessica said\, investing in any capital can lead to this spiraling up. And what Mary and Neil found was that one of the capitals that has the biggest impact is social capital. And I wanna bring that up because as you’re mapping these capitals\, in the practice we’re gonna talk about in a second\, it stresses how important connecting with others is to build that social capital because it can help you spiral up [00:14:00] all those other capitals. \nSo I’m gonna leave a space here for just in case\, since I just stole her thunder and took over that whole point – Just so I could mention spiraling up\, which is one of my favorite research papers out there. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I think that was perfect. \nBOB BERTSCH: All right. Let’s get to practice then. So the practice is mapping the capitals. \nWe’ve provided a downloadable worksheet on the show notes page and it goes along with this activity. So your first step is to go out and download that worksheet. You can just go to oneop.org/podcast to find the webpage for this episode and the worksheet will be there. Then begin by conducting a simple assessment. \nKeeping the families you serve in mind as you reflect on each of the capitals identify the existing capitals in the community. What resources are abundant and where are their gaps? Are there strong social networks? Is there a supportive political environment? [00:15:00] What financial resources are available? Go through each of the seven capitals and think about this. \nAnd when you’re thinking about your community\, it is your community and if you are in a community that has a military installation\, for this exercise\, that installation is part of the community\, and might bring its own capitals and assets to the table. Once you’ve mapped these capitals\, work collaboratively with other service providers\, community organizations and the families themselves to develop a plan that leverages these assets. \nThe goal is to create that upward spiral of positive change where investments in one type of capital lead to improvements in others\, ultimately creating a more resilient and supportive environment for military families. So get out there\, map your capitals. It’s a great first step to really starting any project and addressing any issue you wanna address collaboratively with your community. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. I just wanna add also\, as you get into activities like this\, I think they [00:16:00] can feel overwhelming\, but you don’t have to do all the things. Really just use this as a tool to help you think about all the different capitals that kind of contribute to community resilience and how they might impact the families you work with. \nSo don’t worry about having to have a hand in all of the capital improvements in the different capitals. really just use it to think\, help you think through and c- make connections and\, and impact\, a small area. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Thanks for joining us for this episode. If you enjoyed it\, you may also enjoy the 2026 Military Family Readiness Academy. Every year\, our host organization One Up puts on the Academy\, a series of free interconnected professional development webinars and podcast episodes all focused on essential themes. \nThis year’s theme is building community capacity to support military family wellbeing\, a central topic to practicing [00:17:00] connection. \nThe series opens with a session on collective competence or the idea that communities best support military families when infrastructure and resources are intentionally designed with those families in mind. Too often\, as service providers\, we work in silos. This series helps us understand our role in building the kind of partnerships and shared systems that actually move the needle for the families we serve. \nOn-demand recordings are available after each session so there’s flexibility even if you can’t join us live. If you’d like to check out the academy\, you can visit \noneop.org/mfRA or click the link in our show notes. \nWe’ll see you next week. Until then\, keep practicing. \n[00:18:00]\n  \nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/leveraging-community-assets-2/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
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BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260625T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260625T170000
DTSTAMP:20260625T135929Z
CREATED:20260625T100025Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260625T135929Z
UID:10001778-1782367200-1782406800@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Putting Your Icebreakers to Work
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTM5MzY0MyUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTkzOTM2NDMtcHV0dGluZy15b3VyLWljZWJyZWFrZXJzLXRvLXdvcmsuanMlM0Zjb250YWluZXJfaWQlM0RidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTM5MzY0MyUyNnBsYXllciUzRHNtYWxsJTIyJTIwdHlwZSUzRCUyMnRleHQlMkZqYXZhc2NyaXB0JTIyJTIwY2hhcnNldCUzRCUyMnV0Zi04JTIyJTNFJTNDJTJGc2NyaXB0JTNF[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 26) \nDo icebreakers always make things awkward? \nHave you ever had to do an icebreaker that made you cringe? What if your icebreakers actually helped your team do better work? \nIn this episode Erin and Jessica discuss why icebreakers sometimes suck the energy out of the room and share real world examples of what it is like when they actually work. \nThen Erin shares a practice on how to design an icebreaker that makes team building\, making connections\, and getting work done easier. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n  \n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]JESSICA BECKENDORF: [00:00:00] Hi\, thanks for listening to the Practicing Connection Podcast. I’m Jessica. Today we’ll be talking about icebreakers\, and Erin’s going to be sharing a practice with us. \nHi\, Erin. Let’s start by asking you\, putting you on the spot\, what’s the most memorable icebreaker you’ve been asked to participate in? \n‘Cause I know people hate these\, so let’s give them some good memories! \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Gosh\, okay. A couple of years ago\, during a team meeting at my office\, my boss brought a marble and she had us all stand in our circle\, and we had to hold the marble and then share a piece of wisdom\, and then pass it to the next person. \nAnd it was like really enjoyable. People had a lot of really wise words\, but I ended up being at the end of the group\, and the first three things that I had thought of had already been said by someone else. \nSo I was scrambling\, and then I also noticed as we were [00:01:00] going\, everybody got more and more sincere and it was really sweet\, but it was also like building this intensity in a way where I just\, you know\, I was second to last. There was no way I was going to say something profound at that point because like there really\, you know\, at that time there were maybe 30 people in our office so I was going 29 out of 30. \nI decided to pivot\, and so what I said was\, “Good computer hygiene is restarting your computer once a week.” And then I passed the marble on\, and the whole room burst out laughing in a really good way. Because it had been these really like sincere\, beautiful things. \nAnd then I just had this very practical\, actually honestly I wanted everybody to start restarting their computer once a week because they weren’t and it was causing problems. I was an IT liaison at the time and it was\, anyway\, it was so funny because people [00:02:00] quoted that back to me for a couple of weeks after that and started restarting their computers when they hadn’t been. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So you spread some good in the world too. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So I spread some good in the world. And it was such a jovial meeting after that\, which was so funny. \nAnd I don’t think it was just because I happened to tell a very funny joke\, but I think also people were able to share something that was important to them. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: And then it was received by the group\, which I thought was really cool. What about you? Do you have any memorable icebreakers? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, actually\, do you mind if I give you one that I participated in and one that I facilitated? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, go for it. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Okay. So the first one was during the pandemic and there was a meeting\, a virtual meeting\, and the person who was facilitating was very well versed in how she had us play this game. \nI’m going to call it like\, “Do you remember when we … ” And then\, [00:03:00] you know\, fill in the blank\, because what she did was she started out by saying\, calling out someone’s name\, like in this case\, “Hey\, Erin\, do you remember when we went on that vacation?” And then your job would be to be like\, “Oh\, yeah. We went to Greece and\, uh\, we saw the ocean\,” right? \nAnd then the next person kind of adds to it\, and I know that it’s\, it was a silly story in the end\, but it was actually an incredibly connecting experience. I don’t know if it was partly because it was in the middle of the pandemic and it was nice to just be a little silly together\, because context makes a huge\, huge difference. But we really felt connected. \nAnd we kept doing callbacks the entire meeting. We kept saying\, “Oh\, yeah\, when we were in Italy and we were at that festival\, we slipped on the tomato juice\, remember that?” You know\, it was a really great experience\, and I think that can be kind of hard. \nAnd then the one that I’m remembering that I found to be so [00:04:00] meaningful for me is\, I was facilitating a very unique workshop where it was sort of strategic planning\, but it was strategic storytelling\, and just kind of a different way. And we started an icebreaker that was a game called\, it’s pretty well known\, called Story of Your Name. And it was a multicultural workshop. \nWe had two different interpreters that were there\, that were interpreting everything that we were saying in two different languages\, and basically you choose one of your names\, whether that’s your surname or your nickname or your first name\, and we had people just tell us the story of like\, where did it come from or what did it mean to you? \nAnd this one woman told a beautiful story about her nickname and how her sister called her this nickname\, and her sister passed away when she was very young\, and she had this beautiful story about her name. And it wasn’t just this woman. They all had beautiful stories about their [00:05:00] name and they all felt so connected at the end\, and I felt so connected to them and it was beautiful. \nBut that’s not\, you know\, the appropriate icebreaker for every situation. That was appropriate for that situation. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, yeah. I love that. I’ve actually done that one before and it’s amazing how much easier it is to remember people’s names when you hear a story about what their name is. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I was so thankful that the facilitator did it because I remember stories better than I remember names. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes\, we all do. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: And I was like\, “Somebody was cooking here. Someone was thinking about what they were doing because I now know everybody’s name in the room.” And there were like 30 people I’d never met before. So it was very\, I was impressed. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And it’s funny too when there’s so many people who are like\, “Oh\, I don’t have a story about my name.” And then they start telling you about their name and you’re like\, “What are you talking about? You do have a story about your name. You just told it. ” But they always think they don’t have a very good story [00:06:00] is what it is\, right? That’s the context. \nWell\, we’d love to hear from all of you about the memorable icebreaker that you’ve been asked to do. Email us at practicingconnection@onop.org or click on the link in the show notes. We see and respond to every message and we can’t wait to hear from you. \n– break – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: All right\, Erin\, let’s talk about icebreakers\, because I know so many people dislike that. \nWhy do you think so many people dislike icebreakers? Let’s talk about that. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. Well\, I mean\, I will fully admit that I have been an icebreaker hater. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I feel so sorry for you being paired up with me because I love a good icebreaker. Anyway\, you go ahead\, sorry. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Well\, now that I facilitate things as part of my job\, I don’t hate all icebreakers. I just hate purposeless icebreakers. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, [00:07:00] yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay\, so I think ideally\, you know\, an icebreaker is something that will help build camaraderie in the room\, but often people think you can do that just by making everybody do something awkward or by sharing\, like\, a really trite fact about yourself\, like\, “Tell me your favorite color.” \nAnd that’s\, you know\, not boring\, but it’s also not interesting. So if you have a huge room and then everybody has to say their name and their favorite food\, unless you’re the person who plans to make everybody’s favorite food like me\, that’s not necessarily fun. \nSo a lot of times it feels like wasting time or it doesn’t feel like it has a purpose\, or it makes people awkward\, or it brings discomfort in this space. And there isn’t trust among the group to really survive the discomfort. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right. No\, that’s such a great point. You know\, we were talking a little bit before we started recording and I mentioned that\, it’s funny [00:08:00] because I think\, because I do like to talk and I do like icebreakers\, you would think that I would love all icebreakers\, but I don’t. I agree with you. \nI don’t like the ones that feel like they’re purposeless and I don’t like the ones that feel like it’s just forced interaction\, versus something that can be joyful and fun. The example I was giving you was\, it’s my preference to not show up to a venue and be given a card with a question on it\, and then ask to go and talk to people about that question. I would rather\, but some people are not feeling like this\, I would rather just go and talk with people. If I needed to go talk to people\, I’d rather go talk to people. \nBut a lot of people really like that game\, and so it’s really kind of\, you know\, personal\, I guess\, how you might feel about things like that. But I do think purposeless is difficult\, and I would not say that a game or an activity that asks you to discuss a [00:09:00] question on a card\, I wouldn’t say that that’s purposeless\, but – \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: But maybe you think the question’s boring? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Hmm\, maybe. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Do you like small talk\, like typical small talk\, or do you tend to like asking people small talky questions that really dig in deeper? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, that’s a really good question\, because I tend to have the ability to be able to go deeper with someone really fast\, if that’s where they want to go to. And so\, I have no problem just going and talking to people\, but I know that that’s not easy for a lot of people. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. Hmm. I think another thing that I see sometimes as a reason why people dislike doing icebreakers is when you have an icebreaker that’s effective at letting people share something personal about themselves\, or you start a meeting with a\, “How’s everybody doing?” check-in\, and then nothing that happens in that section impacts the rest of the meeting. \nLike you do the little icebreaker because you’re [00:10:00] supposed to do a community building bit\, and then you end in immediately your business. But if you spent the first 10 minutes of the meeting where everybody is saying they’re tired\, they’re burnt out\, they’re overwhelmed\, and you don’t do anything to address that whatsoever and you’re just like\, “Okay\, thank you for sharing. Moving on.” You know? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: It can even be a simple\, like\, “Okay\, is there anything we should change on our agenda based on what we just heard just now?” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Or like at one point I was facilitating a meeting and I had everybody do a check-in\, and half of the room hadn’t gotten to eat lunch and/or they had like physical pain in their body. \nAnd I just said\, “Okay\, before we move on to the content of our meeting\, I would like to take a five-minute break at the top of this meeting so everybody can go get some food and water and take care of their body. I will see you in five minutes.” \nLike\, “Get out of here\, come back in five minutes.” Or just message me if you really need to go take care of your migraine and leave the meeting. [00:11:00] And that’s where even that’s an example that makes me look really good\, but also it’s an example of what it means if you’re going to do a check-in and ask people how they are\, don’t just ignore that and move on. \nLike integrate your icebreaker into a meeting. And I think more broadly too\, I’m curious if you have any thoughts about if so many people dislike icebreakers and they’re so awkward\, what can they do for us? Why is it worth still doing them? Why is it worth participating even if somebody gives you something and you’re like\, “This is the worst.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That’s a really good question. I mean\, I always like to tell people that every single element of your meeting\, including your icebreakers\, if you’re planning icebreakers\, needs to have a purpose. You can even write down at the beginning\, maybe after a while you don’t need to write it down anymore\, but I’m going to do this activity with them\, and I think I’ve told you in the past that I don’t tend to use the term icebreaker anymore because so many people hate [00:12:00] it. \nI just say\, “activity.” But\, you know\, “Here’s the activity that I’m planning.” Well\, what do I hope it will do for people? \nSo what do I hope it’ll do for them and what do I hope it will contribute to the meeting? So not just that it’ll loosen people up\, right? I mean\, that’s not necessarily a bad purpose\, especially if your meeting is going to have a lot of participation\, but\, also\, like\, what will it do to help contribute to the meeting? \nAnd I’m\, by the way\, I’m not saying that I think that your icebreakers also need to have some sort of output for the meeting. I’m just saying think about the purpose\, and have a purpose for it. And so I think what they can do for us are many different things. If you’ve thought about the purpose\, like maybe this group\, it’s the first time they’re getting together\, so they need to get to know each other. Maybe it’s a team that’s going to have to have high trust. \nSo maybe you want to think about\, well\, maybe it’s too soon [00:13:00] for the story of your name\, like what we were talking about a little bit ago\, but maybe what we could do is\, another type of icebreaker that will get them smiling with each other\, right? \n‘Cause we know laughter is one way that people connect and start to build some trust. So\, I think that they can do many things and I feel like that’s just sidestepping the answer\, Erin\, and I don’t mean to do that\, but because I can’t list out all the things they can do for us because you need to have a purpose for it\, and once you figure out that purpose\, then you can match it up with an icebreaker that will fit that purpose. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. I get why your answer is your answer\, and I agree with it. I also think that icebreakers are sneaky ways to that – sneaky is such a malicious sounding word\, but an obtrusive way for a facilitator to get a read of the room\, \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: [00:14:00] Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Who’s comfortable talking\, who’s not comfortable talking\, who is new\, who knows people\, \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Who’s seeing through your efforts. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Who needs to move their body. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right? Oh yeah\, right. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. And so\, I think when I’m thinking about facilitating\, I’m thinking of icebreakers as\, “Here’s a beat where I can check in on the room\, give people an opportunity to move or stretch\, or like a brain break.” \nWe’ve talked about needing to change modalities so that your brain doesn’t get fatigued before\, and I think icebreakers can do that when they’re implemented well. \nI think also that\, if you’re not the facilitator\, if you’re just a participant\, and you’re asked to do an icebreaker and internally there’s a part of you that just says\, “Ugh\, I hate this\,” it’s worth doing it anyway\, especially if you trust the facilitator. Because there’s [00:15:00] probably a reason why they’re doing it. \nSo it’s a little bit of a trust the process\, and it’s also a relational building thing to respond yes to somebody else’s bid. Are you familiar with the idea of a bid? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Like a bid for connection? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. So someone is offering you an opportunity\, and I will confess that I don’t always love small talk. I love talking with people\, but if we’re only talking about the weather and sports teams\, that is not my favorite kind of conversation. \nAt one point I used to work at a front desk and I would have the same conversation with every single person who walked in the front door. They all wanted to ask me how I was doing and\, you know\, that was a struggle. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I always felt bad for people that asked me that question because I will tell them I’m not just fine. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: But a lot of what I was realizing is\, oh\, this is a way that people build a sense of [00:16:00] safety. And while it may feel rote and boring to me on occasion\, it’s worth doing because for that other person\, it helps them feel safe to have a different conversation with me later\, and the later conversations are the ones that I like. \nSo this is the thing that I can do in order to help people feel comfortable with me. So I think icebreakers are often that same kind of thing. I often\, you know\, I think people who don’t like icebreakers might also be people who don’t like small talk\, because it feels purposeless and meaningless. Anyway\, I think you should try to do it because it’s a way to engage in the community and say\, “Yes\, I’m here\, I’m here to participate.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. We should in the future think about doing an episode about small talk\, because I think it’s not as small as people think it is. Maybe that’ll be the title. So what do you think makes a good icebreaker from your perspective? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. I like icebreakers that are interesting. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: But interesting [00:17:00] according to you. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, so I’m torn because I think there’s part of me that’s like\, I like a good juicy question or a playful question or something that brings a little bit of joy or whimsy\, or something that isn’t just getting immediately to business. \nI recognize that it’s not everybody’s thing. But from a more serious like facilitator mindset\, I think what makes a good icebreaker is having the thing that you’re doing tied in either with meeting the needs of the people in the room\, or helping people feel more connected with the purpose of the gathering. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes. That’s close to the answer I was thinking of. So when I think about what makes a good icebreaker\, because they can fill so many different purposes\, and if you’ve really thought about the purpose\, then that’s a good icebreaker. \nA good icebreaker is one that meets the [00:18:00] purpose that you intended\, or\, look\, you can plan for an icebreaker to meet a purpose or to meet the needs of a group and maybe it doesn’t always work out\, but to me\, what makes a good icebreaker is just one that is either meeting the needs of the people\, or meeting the intended purpose. \nAnd when it goes wrong\, it’s okay. Learn from it\, right? Do it differently next time. \nSo\, what practice are you bringing today? I’m excited about this because I had a little clue as to what you were working on and I’m really excited. I think this is a great practice. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. So I’m going to walk us through how to write a magic question. \nHave you heard of a magic question before? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes\, I read the book you were telling me about. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Oh\, great. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: the Art of Gathering\, I think\, right. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, I learned about magic questions from Priya Parker and I know that she wrote the book\, The Art of Gathering. I don’t know if I read this in her book or if I read it in her newsletter\, but – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Got it. Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: It comes from Priya Parker\, and she describes a magic question as [00:19:00] a “Question that everyone in the group is excited to answer\, and everyone is interested in hearing each other’s answers.” It has to be both. \nSo some examples are\, ‘what’s the last time you cheered so loudly you lost your voice?’ ‘What’s a live performance you wish you could see again for the first time?’ ‘What do you own that you’re pretty sure nobody else in this group owns?’ \nI’ve done that one before. It’s very fun. And then\, ‘if someone named a menu item after you at a restaurant\, what would it be?’ \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Grilled cheese sandwich. \nNo\, I love these questions so much. I’m often asking one that’s very similar to the live performance one. I usually ask people\, ‘what’s the first live performance they went to?’ ‘Where was it?’ \nAnd there’s all kinds of follow-up questions you can ask with that as well\, and people love telling the story of their first live performance\, [00:20:00] or the first one that they really loved or whatever. \nSo I love these questions. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. And what I like about magic questions in general is they’re a really easy icebreaker to implement. They don’t need materials. You can do them a lot of different ways. They work in a big group or a small group. You can have people split into small groups. If you know that your group needs to move around\, you can have everybody stand up and go talk to a person and answer this question and then switch people. \nThere’s a lot of different ways you can use it. You can use it on Zoom\, you can have people drop their answers in the chat\, you can have people journal about it. So it’s a really\, I think\, useful way to come up with one question or a couple of questions that you can use a bunch of different ways\, depending on who’s in the room and what the room feels like. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I’ve sometimes just put it on\, like\, a big easel\, or on a slide\, and I tell people as they’re walking in\, like\, “find someone that they can share that answer with\,” which I know is opposite of what I told you\, that I don’t [00:21:00] like to do that\, but these questions to me are ones that I do want to answer and I do want to hear other people’s answers. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. And I have found one of the common threads in these questions is they’re questions that promote people telling a story about something they’ve experienced. They’re almost always questions that inspire people to share something that you had no idea about\, and it’s usually something that they’re very interested in or passionate about. So it’s a very compelling story a lot of the time. \nAnd that I think is also why magic questions are really good for getting to know people\, finding shared values\, finding shared experience. They’re really good at community building and also bringing the energy of the room up. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right. And even if you’re not finding the shared values\, just the practice of sharing values is really important. \nSo you’ve [00:22:00] given us some really great examples. Let’s talk about how to write a good magic question. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. Okay. So I have a four-step process\, and this does require a little bit of creativity because – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: A big process\, four steps? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I promise it’s not as hard as you make it sound\, Jessica. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, I know. It’s not hard. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So one of the reasons magic questions take a little bit of intentional thought is because different groups of people are going to need a different question. Different situations are going to need a different question. So I’ve set up a series of questions that I use to figure out the qualities of the room\, so that you can then write the question that’s going to work for the group and the setting and the purpose. \nSo step one is to think about who is going to be at your meeting or gathering. Do you know how many people are going to be there? Do they know each other? \nDo they trust each other? is it a formal setting? Is it an informal setting? \nJust think a little bit about [00:23:00] what is the room and who are the people who are going to be there. \nStep two is to think about what are you trying to accomplish at this gathering? Some examples might be building connection and trust\, brainstorming an idea\, making a decision\, working on a project together. Those are all common things. \nAnd then step three is what tone will best serve the purpose of your meeting? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: This is such a good one. I love that you have this tone question\, or this tone planning in here. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes\, because the difference between something that has people tell humorous stories and something that has people tell sincere stories is big. \nSo figuring out\, what emotional atmosphere do I want people to be in? And I think this is also helpful because I’ve used this before in a partner meeting\, where we had two people coming and there was some tension in the group about what is our purpose. And we were [00:24:00] making really important decisions about the future of the program. \nAnd so I wanted us to think through\, how do I ramp down the animosity intention and ramp up this sense of connection and conviction in the work that we were doing? And so that was kind of the tone I was going for\, right? \nOkay. So once you’ve figured out who’s going to be there\, what you’re trying to accomplish and the tone\, what question could you ask that would encourage people to share a story? \nThat’s a broad question\, so I’ll give you a bit of an example. So\, one time – actually I just told you about this. There were groups of people coming together to talk about a project\, and it was contentious and we were talking about how we were going to facilitate a learning experience for people. And there were a lot of different organizations who were doing it together\, and they all had very different cultures. \nAnd so the question that we started the gathering with was\, “What is something that a teacher taught you that you still think about today?” And it was [00:25:00] so good. People were thinking about this teacher\, and it was very much more sincere than funny most of the time. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: It helped people think about\, “Oh\, why was this such an impactful experience for me? \nAnd then it helped us look at what are our values for providing educational experiences for people and how do we provide good ones? And then that started to guide our decisions around how we were going to implement educational programming\, because people were thinking about their own experience in an educational program. It worked so well. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I love that. \nI really love this process\, and you are right. It wasn’t nearly as complex as I was making it sound like with four steps. It’s actually really\, really simple. And so I wonder though\, if you wouldn’t mind just briefly going over the four steps one more time before we close out because yeah\, I do think it’s nice and simple. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Step one\, think about who is going to be at your meeting or gathering. Step two\, what are you trying to [00:26:00] accomplish with your meeting? Step three\, what tone will best serve the purpose of the meeting? And then step four\, what question could you ask that would encourage people to share a story? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Love it. Thank you so much for guiding us through that\, Erin\, I really appreciate this thinking on the magic questions. I’m always encouraging people to ask more questions of each other\, and to go much beyond\, “how’s the weather?” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. And if you end up doing this and coming up with questions\, I would love to hear them. I keep a little list on my phone of good questions\, so if you come up with some\, please email us\, or leave us a voicemail. I would love to hear. There are links in the show notes if you want to do either one. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, that’s it for this episode. Thanks so much for joining us. \nIf you enjoyed this episode\, click the share button in your podcast app to share it with a friend. We’ll be back next week. Until then\, keep practicing. \n[00:27:00]\nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/putting-your-icebreakers-to-work/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260618T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260618T170000
DTSTAMP:20260624T211007Z
CREATED:20260618T100047Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260624T211007Z
UID:10001777-1781762400-1781802000@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Navigating Tricky Partnership Problems (Listener Q&A)
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTM1NTM1MCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTkzNTUzNTAtbmF2aWdhdGluZy10cmlja3ktcGFydG5lcnNoaXAtcHJvYmxlbXMtbGlzdGVuZXItcS1hLmpzJTNGY29udGFpbmVyX2lkJTNEYnV6enNwcm91dC1wbGF5ZXItMTkzNTUzNTAlMjZwbGF5ZXIlM0RzbWFsbCUyMiUyMHR5cGUlM0QlMjJ0ZXh0JTJGamF2YXNjcmlwdCUyMiUyMGNoYXJzZXQlM0QlMjJ1dGYtOCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRnNjcmlwdCUzRQ==[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 25) \nHow do you build community connections that actually work? \nHave you ever gotten stuck as you try to build community partnerships? \nIn this month’s Listener Q&A\, Erin and Jessica answer questions about classic partnership problems: \n\nWhat do you do if you can’t find time to build connections during work time\nHow do you navigate miscommunication years into a partnership?\nIf I can only do one thing\, what should I focus on?\n\nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org \n\n  \n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: [00:00:00] Hi\, thanks for listening to the Practicing Connection Podcast. I’m Erin. My co-host\, Jessica\, is here as well. Today\, we’ll be answering listener questions about partnerships. Hi\, Jessica. How are you feeling about today’s questions? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: They’re all terrible. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yikes. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: No\, of course I them. I love any questions that get you and I talking and commiserating on solutions. I’m excited to get to it. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, me too. We had several that I’ve kind of saved up over time that are specifically about partnership building that I think are\, like\, complimentary with each other. So I’m excited to dig into that today. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I love that that was an intentional theming on your part. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. Are you ready for our first question? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Absolutely. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: All right\, here we go. [00:01:00]\n“Hi. I’ve been listening to a lot of your interviews about partnerships. I work one-on-one with military spouses. I know that building community connections or maybe even strategic partnerships would help me do a better job of supporting them\, but I am booked all day with client meetings and my performance is measured by how quickly I can help my clients go through our program. How do I make time for community outreach when it isn’t supported by the way my job is set up. I don’t want to have to use all of my personal time to do it\, but I’m starting to think it isn’t possible any other way with my workload. Should I just ignore my work-life boundaries and do outreach on my personal time?” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: No\, full stop. That is\, well\, it’s no – and absolutely not. I mean\, it is really important to you know\, maintain some separation\, right\, in your life. I remember a long time ago\, way back when I was a city planner\, I was really interested – I was a [00:02:00] city planner in another city from the one that I lived in\, and I was really interested in being on the planning commission at the city that I was living in. \nAnd through a series of circumstances that got put on pause and frankly\, the more and more I thought about it\, when the mayor of the city I live in reached out to me and said\, “Hey\, I’d encourage you to\, you know\, apply to be on our plan commission\,” I was like\, “Wait\, I’m going to go to work all day and do city planning stuff\, and then I’m going to come home and do city planning stuff: I might want to rethink this. There are other ways to give back to my community.” \nAnd so\, it is really important to kind of maintain some sort of boundary between your work and your personal time. My suggestions in this situation\, I can not only relate to it\, but understand the difficulties\, especially when I think in this case you said that performance is measured [00:03:00] by how quickly you can kind of get the clients through. \nI would actually start maybe with your supervisor and\, you know\, sharing a little bit that you have a goal to connect with other people in the community who are working on issues of importance to your clients\, so that you can actually serve your clients better. They may be able to then support you in finding some relief somehow in your schedule and maybe not. \nAnd if there’s no way to fold this kind of partnership work into work hours\, maybe there’s a way to make it kind of fun and pleasurable related to\, you know\, your personal time. So maybe there’s a coalition that you’re really interested in connecting with people on but you just don’t have the space to go to their meetings and to support them in any other way. \nMaybe they’re having a fundraiser and you can just show up at that fundraiser and just contribute to it somehow or\, you [00:04:00] can just kind of be part of the fun parts of it. That might be one thing you can do\, and then you’re not giving all of your personal time away to that\, right? \nAn example I have is I know someone who their thing is throwing darts. Like they compete in dart tournaments all the time\, and they’re putting together a charity dart tournament for a charity that they support. And so perhaps there are things like that. If your thing is\, fill in the blank\, you know\, then maybe that’s something that you could kind of combine it into something pleasurable. \nBut I would start with your supervisor and make the case that this is something that could actually help you move your clients through the process. Or it could help you with your client work and perhaps there can be some relief there. \nErin\, what do you think? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. I think you made a lot of good points. I don’t have a hard no\, which is shocking to me. I’m like somewhat [00:05:00] notorious in my workplace for being like\, “Do you need help with boundaries? Go talk to Erin. She’s got the best ones.” And I was like\, “Wow\, that’s so nice of you to say. I’ve worked hard on them.” \nI think specifically to the question about\, “Should I ignore my work-life boundaries and do outreach on my personal time?” My answer is\, you shouldn’t ignore your boundaries\, but if after you’ve talked to your supervisor\, it’s clear you won’t be able to get work time to do it\, can you shift them? Like\, don’t throw your boundaries completely out the window. \nYou’re like\, “Okay\, I don’t like it\, but the reality is I will not be able to do this during my work time\, and I can’t use my breaks or my lunch to do it because I need those for my brain.” \nEspecially if you’re in client meetings all day long\, do not use your breaks to have more meetings. Go rest your brain. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So glad you brought that up\, Erin. That was on my mind too. It’s like\, don’t use your breaks to do that. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Like\, maybe if you’re extroverted and it’s refreshing to talk casually with a person\, you [00:06:00] could have a lunch with someone\, maybe\, but genuinely don’t try to shove this into your breaks because it’s not enough time\, you’ll be stressed out and you won’t get the brain break that you need to not completely burn yourself out. \nBut if you are going to do it after work\, I think it’s really helpful to kind of pause and ask yourself\, “What limits am I going to put on the time and money and energy that I’m going to expend on this?” And so I think it’s really helpful\, if you have to use your personal time\, be the most strategic you’ve ever been. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Think about\, okay\, what connections are going to most serve me\, and how do I build those? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That’s one option. The other option is be very unstrategic and go for what is going to be the most fun thing\, because genuinely some of the most interesting networking that I have done is when I’ve just gone to do something fun that I wanted to [00:07:00] do\, and I was like\, “Okay\, I’m networking with people in my community by going to this free salsa class.” \nAnd then I met people and had these really interesting conversations about the work that I was doing and the work they were doing. And\, you know\, obviously\, we make a podcast for our job that’s not everybody’s life\, but I think sometimes\, especially if you’re just trying to get to know people in your community\, you can go to a community event that is going to be fun. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Go have fun and just talk to people and intentionally make friendships with people who you don’t know. \nSo if you’re going to go do a fun thing\, don’t just go with your best friend who you’ve already met and don’t talk to anybody else. Go and talk to other people. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I would say things like chambers of commerce and Rotary clubs. I know a lot of people think\, I mean\, yes\, they’re focused on business for sure\, but there’s a lot of nonprofits that belong to them as well\, certainly they’re a more formalized sort of way\, but they’re always having events. \nI’ve [00:08:00] heard really great things about Rotary clubs in particular\, and I used to work for a Chamber of Commerce\, so I know what those events are like and they can be a whole lot of fun. \nA lot of people don’t like them because of the networking aspect and\, you know\, we talk a lot about how to have those conversations and how to talk with people\, how to start relationships with people through conversations\, \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. I will also add one last thing\, which is one of the things I’ve really learned about work-life balance is that in order to have balance\, when you leave work\, you can’t just do nothing. Find a way to do something in your off time. I think that may also help it feel less like it’s stealing from you to do this in your off work time\, if you also make time when you’re out of work to do something you care about. \nAnd\, like\, obviously capacity is a real [00:09:00] issue. I’m not saying burn yourself out. I’m not saying hurt yourself or stop sleeping. I’ve seen people really burn themselves out by like going really hard on networking\, and going really hard on everything and then never sleeping. And I would never say do that because that’s miserable. \nLike\, long-term\, it’s very miserable. But I do think if you are spending\, say you’re committing to a half an hour a week of non-work time doing intentional networking – that’s just a really arbitrary number. Also commit 30 minutes of time to doing something that you absolutely love doing\, not chores not taking – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Not games on your phone\, unless you truly enjoy that\, I guess. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I\, you know\, save games on your phone for your 15-minute break in between client meetings and your lunch. Like\, that’s when your brain needs a break\, and you need to just play those games on your phone. Because I have found it’s so much easier to not resent the amount of time I’m networking outside of work [00:10:00] if I’m also doing fun stuff outside of work. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That’s great. Let’s go to the next question. Okay\, so I’ve got this one: \n‘“What do you do when you’re already into a partnership and you realize you aren’t aligned on core values like you thought? My team recently started having conflict with a partner org we’ve had for two years\, when we realized we’ve been using the same words to mean different things. Now things are tense as we started having convos about it\, conversations\, and we can see the partner org withdrawing and thinking of us more and more as outsiders\, to save face with than collaborators. Is this a trust thing? Is this something else? How do we tell if we should push through or let the partnership die?” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Wow. Okay. A lot to unpack there. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Is it a trust thing? I mean\, probably a little bit if they’re drawing away. [00:11:00] If you can tell that they’re starting to treat you as outsiders\, something is hard there. \nI think it’s possible it might also be a process thing. I find in partnerships it’s rarely just one thing that makes it hard especially\, you know\, you didn’t say what words you have different definitions for. \nSo I feel a little bad because I don’t have specifics to get into\, but I think often what I see in collaborations is there’s different communication norms\, or there’s different decision making norms and then you think you’re going along together\, but then suddenly there’s tension. \nYeah\, wow. Okay. I think you might have more advice on that\, so I’m gonna let you dig into those things. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I appreciate what you were saying though\, because this is the stuff that\, these norms and coming to like a shared purpose\, some shared values\, these are the [00:12:00] things that consistently I’ve seen groups want to skip. They’re like\, “Hey\, we’re adults. We can handle this.” And even if they do\, even if you’ve got – I saw a reaction. Did you want to react? Did you want to share something about that? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. I just … Yes\, you’re totally right. People want to skip the\, like\, “What is our purpose? What are our norms? How do we collaborate with each other?” \nNobody ever wants to have the\, “How do we have conflict” conversation at the beginning of the relationship. Both personal relationships and professional relationships. And then\, people have breakdowns of communication and then they fight and they don’t have an understanding of\, “Okay\, how are we going to do this though?” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So that was my reaction. I was just like\, “Oh man\, you’re so right. People don’t think about how to fight before they have fights.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. I mean\, look\, even if you went through the work\, and I’ve seen a lot of groups\, they’re willing to go through the work of talking [00:13:00] about\, “What’s our shared purpose going to be? What’s our shared goals\, our even values?” Like some of them are willing to have those conversations\, but they don’t often get into the weeds of defining them. \nThey’ll be like\, “Okay\, you know\, our values are … ” And they’ll kind of have\, you know\, three words separated by periods\, right? Like it’ll be almost more like a tagline\, right? You know\, trust – \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Confidentiality. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right? “These are our values.” And then there’s no like definition\, a clear cut definition of like\, I mean\, team values are literally how internally you are going to act so that you are living your values and moving toward your purpose. \nSo not only are they internally how you’re going to act with each other\, but they’re also values that can be acted upon in a way that the external world can see that you’re living your values\, that [00:14:00] you’re working toward a shared purpose. \nAnd so my advice is to at the outset\, right from the beginning\, define\, define\, define. Define shared definition\, shared agreement on what the definitions are\, define what the words mean and what they don’t mean\, right? Not just\, “This is what it means\,” but also\, “Here’s what we’re leaving out.” \nLike\, “These are the things that we don’t mean by this term or by this word\,” right? What’s included? What’s not included? This is really a classic issue\, and so I said define this at the outset. That is the ideal\, of course and not only define it at the outset\, but also keep revisiting\, like\, “Do we still mean this? Does this still match what we mean?” \nAnd at the beginning\, it can feel a little repetitive and weird to keep revisiting it\, but it is still important\, and at some point a new person [00:15:00] is going to join. They’re going to be like\, “Whoa\, wait a second\, that’s not how I would think of that term.” And so then you can invite conversation about\, “Okay\, is this still what we mean?” \nSo\, defining at the outset\, that’s ideal. I think it is never too late though to redefine your group principles\, or to define\, to say\, “Hey\, wait a second\, we’re having some problems here. Maybe we need to actually come up with a set of principles.” \nAnd in fact\, I would say that you should\, if you’ve got group principles\, you should review them regularly together. If you don’t have them\, you can define it now. Unless things have gotten toxic in your relationship with this other organization\, right? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. Okay. So I think you raised some really good points\, and just this question was a great question\, and also there were\, like\, four questions in it. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, I know. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So I kind of talked about\, like\, realizing your values don’t align\, and [00:16:00] reopening the conversation\, and I would encourage in most cases to be more direct in your communication than you would maybe be comfortable with. \nOf course\, that is not appropriate in all contexts. Your mileage may vary if you’re from – I have heard that if you’re from the South\, sometimes really direct communication is not responded too well. I’ve found sometimes in the Midwest\, really direct communication has not responded too well. My family was not from the Midwest\, we moved here\, we learned the hard way. \nAnd also I have found sometimes that in this situation where it’s clear that there’s tension\, being the person who’s willing to take on\, like\, the shame of naming the tension and just being like\, “Hey\, I’m noticing we’re having tension around this. I think we need to have a conversation. I know it’s probably gonna be a little uncomfortable\, but I think it’s going to be easier to tell how to move forward if we actually talk about it. ” \nAnd then actually talk about it and don’t dance around it and just say\, [00:17:00] “Hey\, we think this word means this. It seems to us like you mean this. Are we correct in that? Are we getting it right?” And then give them space to communicate what’s happening with them. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Even say it\, like\, “Here’s how we look at this word or this term\, and you find out how they’re looking at it now the conversation\,” I think can become\, in the context of us working together\, “Are these at all compatible and how can we define this together?” \nLike\, “How can we come to a shared understanding of what this means?” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. I think especially in the question they said something about like\, “Viewing us as outsiders to save face with.” \nSo that tells me they feel like they need to perform a kind of way or like they can’t be imperfect. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Hmm. Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: And so I think that’s part of why that direct conversation will really help\, because [00:18:00] then you say\, “Okay let’s just figure it out\, because there’s no shame if we need to pivot how we’re working together\, or if we want to change what our collaboration looks like. We just want us to be on the same page.” \nAnd so I want to quickly just address the very last question\, “How do we tell if we should push through or let the partnership die?” And I think for me\, the answer to that is there’s no one single thing that’s going to automatically tell you. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: If you haven’t directly addressed\, “Hey\, I’m noticing a conflict\, can we talk about it?” try that first\, you know? \nLike don’t just let a partnership die or ghost on a partnership before you have the challenging\, slightly uncomfortable\, direct conversation about\, “Hey\, it seems like we’re miscommunicating. It seems like maybe we need to renegotiate how we want to collaborate with each other. Are you open to having that conversation with us? The work that we do is important and making sure that [00:19:00] our partnership is working for both of us is also important to us.” \nAnd I think being willing to have that conversation should be your first approach. And then if in that conversation you’re realizing\, “Oh\, we aren’t compatible\,” is there a way you can coordinate with each other if you’re not collaborating? Is there a way you can stay in contact and like\, do parallel work\, maybe not collaborating on things but referring people to each other?” \nThere are ways you can work with people that aren’t directly collaborating on projects\, and maybe that’s a better fit for your organizational structures and your values and how you have to use money. \nAnd we work at Extension\, which is like this really interesting combination of university bureaucracy and county government system. We work with nonprofits and we work with businesses \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Local governments too. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Everybody has different timelines. Everybody has different ways of dealing with money\, and sometimes it’s just not super [00:20:00] compatible. And that doesn’t mean it’s wrong\, it just means that you have to maybe pivot how you’re working with each other. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. For someone who thought that you weren’t going to have as much to say on this\, I think you contributed such a rich answer. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay\, great. Final question: \n“If I only have time to do one thing to upskill my collaboration\, what should I focus on?” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I think the single best thing that we can do is sort of\, like\, step zero instead of\, like\, step one\, which is knowing yourself about as well as you can. Because you’re always changing. \nSo that means continually learning about yourself. Like\, for example\, what from your past or your present influences how you think and act? What are your preferences? What are your triggers? How do you trust? Do you trust immediately until someone has broken that trust\, or do you trust not at [00:21:00] all until someone has earned it? Right. \nWhat are your boundaries? Learn them and communicate them when necessary. I think that if you only have time to do that\, get to know yourself: make it a thing that you do\, continually be curious about yourself. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. Well\, that’s a good answer. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Like\, “This person said this and it made me feel something.” Well\, what did it make you feel? Why do you think it made you feel that way? Really think about that. \nThe more you do that\, the faster that thinking about yourself happens\, the faster your kind of reflections happen\, and yeah\, that’s my answer. \nWhat do you think? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Oh\, I have two that are tied and I’m having a hard time picking which one is the one you should really do. I think I’m going to cheat and say that they’re combined. \nOkay. So I think\, and I’m very biased\, but I think the most important thing you can do is practice communication skills\, [00:22:00] specifically how to be direct and kind. I think there is so much room for miscommunication\, especially if you’re collaborating with people who are different than you\, and learning to express yourself clearly. \nAnd especially\, expressing complex ideas simply and directly can go such a huge way. It can take you so far in terms of being able to collaborate with different kinds of people\, people who don’t already know your field and the jargon of your field. \nAnd I think if you’re like\, “Communication skills are just so broad\, that’s too broad of a category\, Erin. Narrow it down for me.” I specifically want you to think about power dynamics and how you communicate across them. So what power do you have\, are you wielding it on purpose and how do you communicate? \nAnd that means sometimes you need to pause [00:23:00] before you talk in this space\, because you have a lot of power and you’ll shut down the conversation if you jump in too soon. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And in those situations\, Erin\, I just want to quickly add\, because I’ve been in a room before and I’ve talked about this here\, where a question was asked and everybody in the room looked to this one person who didn’t have any positional power in the room but had\, like\, monetary and political capital in that community. And everyone wanted that person to answer. \nThey were afraid to say anything until that person answered\, not because this person was particularly threatening or anything. And as that person\, not just holding back but maybe inviting and saying\, like\, “I would love to hear from a couple of other folks on this. I appreciate everything you bring as well.” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That’s a great example. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Holding back and/or inviting\, yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I think too\, it’s really easy to feel in some situations that you don’t have power. But if you’re in a collaboration with other [00:24:00] people and you’re serving the same clients\, that’s a weird term for it\, maybe not everybody uses the word clients\, but we’ll use that one because it’s pretty clear. \nSo if you’re trying to collaborate\, to offer services to the same group of people\, you also have power in that situation because you know that audience\, you work with that audience\, you can’t speak fully to their experience because you maybe are not a part of that audience. But I think it’s important to know that if you are going to collaborate with someone\, you will be bringing something to the collaboration and with that comes power. \nAnd so noticing\, “How do people respond to me when I’m in a room? How do I make sure I’m both participating and leaving space for others to participate?” \nI personally get a lot of feedback that I’m intimidating. Because I’m very confident and I’m very comfortable saying what I think. So when I am walking into a room\, I’m thinking a lot about\, “Am I leaving space for other people? Am [00:25:00] I leaving space for people to disagree with me\, without being afraid?” \nWhich feels like\, I mean\, I think I’m a really cheerful\, jolly person. And so I don’t think of myself as being intimidating. People are like\, “Well\, Erin\, you’re just so confident and you aren’t afraid to be called out. You’re not afraid to publicly change your mind if someone brings up a good point.” \nAnd I was like\, “Oh\, okay. That’s intimida-” like it wouldn’t have occurred to me that that was intimidating. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That’s really interesting. I’ve not had that feedback\, but I’ve never been the one in the room who – I’ve never been afraid. I’m not necessarily confident\, I don’t come off as confident\, but I’m not afraid to ask questions or to say\, “Well\, what if this\, or what if that?” \nAnd the thing is\, in the moment\, I think I often have seen the feedback has been a lot of silence\, or maybe it’s like\, “Well\, we’ll get to that later\, whatever.” But then after the meeting is when I have people reaching out to me and thanking me for\, like\, [00:26:00] saying what I said\, for naming whatever it was that I was noticing. \nThe thing is\, I’m doing it in a way where that’s just part of what I feel I think I need to do in the moment\, but I’m not\, like\, super confident when I do it. But what I’m trying to say here is that those skills maybe will look little bit different to other people\, or people will see them differently\, or receive them differently. \nI am someone who learning to be more direct is a challenge for me\, and it’s one that I’m interested in learning more about. So I’m glad that we are partnered up\, Erin\, because I can learn a lot from you! \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Wonderful. All right. Any other thoughts before I – we’ve had a good convo\, so I don’t want to – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: This is great. Thank you so much for having this conversation with me\, and for putting the questions together in such a great themed way. I appreciate it. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. All right. Well\, that’s it for this episode. Thank you for joining us. \nIf you have a question or a hot take\, or you disagree [00:27:00] with any of our advice\, we’d love to hear from you. Please share your thoughts. \nYou can email us at practicingconnection@onop.org. We would love to hear from you. We see and respond to every message\, and we promise not to share anything without your permission. \nWe’ll be back next week. Until then\, keep practicing. \nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/navigating-tricky-partnership-problems/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260611T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260611T170000
DTSTAMP:20260625T164609Z
CREATED:20260611T100024Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260625T164609Z
UID:10001776-1781157600-1781197200@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Do you see yourself as a generous collaborator?
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTMwNDQ4NiUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTkzMDQ0ODYtZG8teW91LXNlZS15b3Vyc2VsZi1hcy1hLWdlbmVyb3VzLWNvbGxhYm9yYXRvci5qcyUzRmNvbnRhaW5lcl9pZCUzRGJ1enpzcHJvdXQtcGxheWVyLTE5MzA0NDg2JTI2cGxheWVyJTNEc21hbGwlMjIlMjB0eXBlJTNEJTIydGV4dCUyRmphdmFzY3JpcHQlMjIlMjBjaGFyc2V0JTNEJTIydXRmLTglMjIlM0UlM0MlMkZzY3JpcHQlM0U=[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 24) \nDo you see yourself as a generous collaborator? Have you ever been generous with a collaborator\, only to leave disappointed?  \nThis week’s practice is all about unpacking generosity. Making time for generosity can build trust\, which is a key ingredient to collaborative relationships. \nIn this episode from the archives\, Bob and Jessica discuss what generosity can do for you in your relationships and why it can be challenging to offer generosity to new people. Then Bob guides us through a simple reflection to dig into your motivations and align with your values. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nGenuine Generosity: https://randomactsofleadership.com/genuine-generosity\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n  \n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: [00:00:00] Welcome to Practicing Connection. I’m Erin\, and today we are talking about practicing generosity in our relationships. \nThis episode is part of our From The Archive series\, so you’ll be hearing Jessica and Bob dive into this topic later in the episode. I’ve really enjoyed listening to our archives and selecting episodes to share with you all. \nOften I will pitch Jessica an idea for a Practicast only to find out it’s something we already have a recording of in our archives. This is one of those episodes. \nEvery time I go and listen thinking\, “Well\, maybe I can just rewrite it.” But honestly\, the episodes are so thoughtfully put together\, and the practices are so helpful to me personally that I find myself wanting to just pass them right along to you. \nIn the spirit of that\, I want to just provide a little bit of framework for you guys before we dig in. We often talk a lot about what it takes to collaborate with new people\, and sometimes our tools can get really complicated. [00:01:00] figuring out how to be generous in your relationships is one of those basic things that is simple\, if not easy\, but it can make such a big difference. \nI love the reflection that Bob guides us through in this episode. It is not complicated\, but the questions are really good at challenging us to be honest with ourselves about what our expectations actually are and how we’re showing up in our relationships. I hope you enjoy this episode and I’ll see you on the other side. \n– break – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yourself as a generous collaborator\, research consistently points to the power of generosity in building trustful long-term working relationships. Yet we are often hesitant to risk leading with generosity. Hi everyone. This is Jessica\, and welcome to this week’s Practicing Connection podcast\, where we highlight a specific practice you can use in your life and work. \nThis week’s practice is [00:02:00] all about generosity. Making time for generosity can build trust\, which is a key ingredient to collaborative relationships. While engaging in acts of generosity can be vulnerable\, the benefits are too big to ignore. My practicing connection co-host Bob Bertsch\, will be guiding you through a practice related to generosity later in this episode. \nBut first\, we’ll learn a little more about generosity in general. Hi\, Bob. \nBOB BERTSCH: Hey Jessica\, I’m looking forward to this conversation. Generosity is one of those pillars of the working out loud process\, which was important process to both of us. I know. So I’m anxious to talk about it. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, I’d like to start with connecting generosity to collaboration. \nHow does generosity play a role in collaborative efforts? \nBOB BERTSCH: Well\, I think there are a couple of ways generosity plays a role in collaboration. The first is in its role in building trust. In order for people to cooperate\, they have to have some level of trust in each other. [00:03:00] So when we first encounter someone new\, there’s often uncertainty because we can’t predict how that person will behave\, and as a result\, we don’t know how to behave in that person’s presence. \nSo approaching that first interaction with generosity provides a foundation for trust. It demonstrates a view of others that’s giving and assumes positive intent on their part. We’re social creatures\, so that generosity that you extend is likely to be reciprocated. Research has shown people very precisely reciprocate the degree of cooperation that they received from the other in the past interaction. \nSo with a giving attitude and an assumption in favor of positive intent\, as the basis of the relationship\, trust is more likely to be developed because that generosity is likely to be reciprocated. So the second role generosity plays in collaboration is in [00:04:00] mediating social dilemmas\, like when there is uncertainty\, disagreement\, or maybe a perceived gap in reciprocity. \nThe social dilemmas are gonna be part of any collaboration at some point\, or any relationship really at some point. Research by Clap Wick and Van Lang has shown these social dilemmas can be challenged by what they call negative noise. And what they mean by that are mistakes that cause actual outcomes to be worse than they were intended to be. \nAnd an example would be like accidentally saying the wrong thing. Many of us have done that before\, or forgetting to respond to an email\, right? Those are just mistakes\, but they impact\, you know\, the outcome. They found that this negative noise is more challenging if you’re in a transactional or tit for tat strategy in terms of the relationship\, and it was less challenging in relationships\, [00:05:00] grounded in generosity. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That is so interesting and I definitely have been the person who has forgotten to get back to emails and\, and things like that. So I’m curious to learn more about why it’s helpful to understand our motivations behind our acts of generosity. Can you share a little bit about that? \nBOB BERTSCH: Sure. So that research that I just mentioned about negative noise\, being a bigger challenge in transactional or tit for tat strategies than in those grounded in generosity. \nIf we’re going to take advantage of knowing that we need to know which strategy we’re using\, and we think we do. But the problem is sometimes we think we’re being generous. But we actually have expectations we would associate with a tit for tat strategy. John Stepper wrote about a wonderful example we can use to try and think about this and examine it\, and the example is holding the door open for [00:06:00] someone. \nSo on the surface\, it seems like a completely generous strategy. But when you think about it more deeply\, we often find that we have expectations of that being a transaction. For instance\, like how do you feel when you hold the door for someone\, but they don’t acknowledge you at all? They don’t say thanks. \nThey don’t smile. They don’t make eye contact. Do you feel differently about the action? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Isn’t it? Isn’t that them just being a jerk? I’m just kidding. \nBOB BERTSCH: That could be too. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: No\, no\, no\, no! \nBOB BERTSCH: Or if you hold the door for someone upon entering a building and then you end up\, you know\, coincidentally exiting together and they don’t hold the door for you. \nIf you find that you are expecting some kind of reciprocation\, then you might not have had a completely generous strategy in mind\, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s just a different strategy\, right? Holding the door is just a helpful example. Sometimes we think we’re being generous with others in our [00:07:00] work. \nWhen we’re really expecting reciprocity\, right? And if we aren’t clear with ourselves about our expectations\, then we can’t be clear with our coworkers and let them know that\, hey\, we’re expecting some kind of. Reciprocity\, especially if we’re presenting our actions as being completely generous\, right? So that lack of clarity can have a really negative impact on trust and in turn cooperation. \nSo I think that’s why it’s important to kind of know\, are we motivated here purely by generosity or are we expecting some kind of transaction? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: What are the things that can get in the way of having a generous strategy? Why is it sometimes difficult to be generous or to lead with that strategy versus thinking in a reciprocal way? \nAgain\, like you said\, there’s\, it’s nothing\, not\, it’s not that there’s anything wrong with thinking in a reciprocal way\, but\, you know\, [00:08:00] what gets in the way of us leading with that generosity instead? \nBOB BERTSCH: So a few things come to mind for that. One is relevant past experience. Note ‘relevant.’ So we might not be generous with someone because we have kind of learned not to. \nThey’ve taken advantage of our generosity in the past\, so we might be able to be generous with that person again\, if something has changed for them or maybe something’s changed for us or the context is different. Or we could try being generous with them in kind of lower risk ways to see if we can find our way back to trust. \nBut that’s just based on a\, you know\, past experience. So sometimes we find ourselves not being generous because\, you know\, we got burned by that person. That’s what makes it relevant\, by the way. And then finally\, another reason that it can be hard is that we often misapply past experience. \nYou know\, we have had\, many of us have had previous experiences of being hurt by those that we [00:09:00] trusted\, and that can make it difficult to be generous with someone new. So I think that’s misapplied. I think because we’re not basing that on someone new. We’re basing it on somebody who did it before. \nRight. That’s why I called it misapplication. So I think practicing generosity and reflecting on our acts of generosity can be helpful in overcoming those kinds of barriers that you asked about. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Thank you. I think it’s time for us to practice this and I think this is a reflective practice. \nSo could you please walk us through that? \nBOB BERTSCH: So I’ve adapted this practice from questions shared by Susan Mazza in her blog post\, Genuine Generosity\, and we’ll link that from the show notes and from the words of many other teachers over the years. I’m grateful for their generosity in sharing their wisdom with me\, and I’m glad to share this with you. \nSo. Let’s start by recalling a time when [00:10:00] you believed you had acted generously and found you were less than satisfied with the outcome. Try to bring to mind the place you were\, the action you took\, the other person or people involved\, and the feeling of dissatisfaction. \nSo now that you’ve brought that to mind\, think about what you really wanted or expected in return for your generosity. Be honest with yourself here. This is an opportunity to consider what motivates your generosity and why this particular situation left you feeling unsatisfied. Now with that experience still firmly in mind\, consider how it would’ve been different if you had gotten what you wanted.[00:11:00]\nWhat would that have looked like? How would it have been different for you and how do you think it would’ve been different for the recipient of your generosity? \nNext. Think about the beliefs and values that you hold that contributed to this experience. If your experience does not match what you consciously think you believe\, then you’ll know there’s work to be done to align your beliefs and values with your actions. And finally\, now that we’ve kind of considered that situation\, think about one way that you can be genuinely generous this week. \nHow can you let go of your expectations for reciprocity of any kind and just be generous. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: [00:12:00] Wow. Thanks so much for guiding us through that practice. I actually practiced it while you were saying it. I really appreciate that\, Bob. Thank you so much. \nBOB BERTSCH: You’re welcome. I really enjoy talking about generosity and these kinds of ideas and it was my pleasure to share that. \n– outro – \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That’s it for this Practicast. Thank you for joining us for the simple but challenging reflection. I hope it helps you be more generous\, not only with others\, but also with yourself. \nIf you enjoyed this episode\, please consider sharing it with a friend or a colleague. We’ll be back next week. Until then\, keep practicing. \n[00:13:00]\nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/do-you-see-your-self-as-a-generous-collaborator/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
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BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260604T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260604T170000
DTSTAMP:20260603T211024Z
CREATED:20260604T100021Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260603T211024Z
UID:10001773-1780552800-1780592400@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Why Community Engagement Efforts Fall Flat
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTI3OTk0NSUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTkyNzk5NDUtd2h5LWNvbW11bml0eS1lbmdhZ2VtZW50LWVmZm9ydHMtZmFsbC1mbGF0LmpzJTNGY29udGFpbmVyX2lkJTNEYnV6enNwcm91dC1wbGF5ZXItMTkyNzk5NDUlMjZwbGF5ZXIlM0RzbWFsbCUyMiUyMHR5cGUlM0QlMjJ0ZXh0JTJGamF2YXNjcmlwdCUyMiUyMGNoYXJzZXQlM0QlMjJ1dGYtOCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRnNjcmlwdCUzRQ==[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 23) \nMost of us don’t ignore input – we just ask for it too late. And by then\, the decisions are already made. \nWhat if the biggest issue with community engagement isn’t whether you do it – but when and how? \nIn this episode\, Jessica and Erin explore a simple but powerful two-part practice that can transform how collaborative work unfolds: engaging with people before decisions are made\, and closing the loop afterward by showing how their input shaped the outcome. \nThey unpack why even well-intentioned teams often bring in community voice too late\, how that affects trust and participation\, and what it looks like to embed engagement into the way you work – not just treat it as a final step. \nIf you’ve ever wondered why engagement efforts fall flat – or how to make them more meaningful – this episode offers a small shift that can make a big difference. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nEpisode: “What the Room is Telling You: How to Read the Room”\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n  \n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: [00:00:00] I feel like this is something we do all of the time. We bring really smart people together to address a big important community issue. We have great conversations. We design something really thoughtful\, and then we ask for community input after every decision is already made. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: It’s like\, “Here’s what we’re thinking. Any feedback?” \nAnd really I want to be clear that I think we mean it sincerely. And most of the time\, all the groups I’ve worked with\, they mean it sincerely. But by that point\, even if the group doesn’t think this is the case\, a lot of the big choices have actually already been made. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes\, I agree that it usually comes from a really good place. It’s usually\, “Oh\, we don’t have time\,” or\, “This is so important\, we have to be moving on it. We have to get something done.” \nBut then they put all this energy and effort into it\, and they’re surprised when people push back or when they get no engagement at all. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right. Or\, people show up and it feels like they’re reacting to what you’re saying instead of helping to shape the project. When maybe your intent was\, you were hoping people would come and [00:01:00] help shape the project\, but they seem to be reacting. Yeah. It’s an issue. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So let’s explore a small shift that can make a really big difference in how all of this plays out\, especially in collaborative work. \n​- intro music – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Today we’re talking about a practice that connects really closely to the kinds of collaboration we often focus on in this podcast\, it’s this idea of engaging with people before decisions are made and then closing the loop on it\, showing your work and sharing it back with the people you engaged with. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. I love that you’re saying both of those things\, because you really need both. You need to ask for input and then close the loop or else it isn’t effective. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: We talk a lot about cross-sector collaboration\, like bringing together different organizations\, different perspectives\, different kinds of expertise\, but one thing we haven’t really focused on as much is [00:02:00] what it looks like to fully include community voice in that work\, not as a separate step so much as part of the collaborative work itself. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, that makes sense. Because it’s really possible to have a strong collaboration across organizations and still not be meaningfully engaged with the people most impacted or affected by an issue. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, and pretty often when engagement does happen\, it happens later than we think it does\, like later in the process. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Hmm. Or later than it should happen. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Yeah\, exactly. Which brings us to the first part of this practice: Engage before you decide. \nThe first part of this practice is really about timing. It’s about bringing people in when things are still open\, when there’s still real opportunity to shape what happens next. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So I think one thing that’s helpful to say here is that we’re bringing them in at the beginning\, because part of the community voice that you need is having the community shape how the problem is defined\, not [00:03:00] just responding to a proposed solution. \nAnd I think that’s so important because sometimes your solution doesn’t hit what the community needs because you aren’t aware of what they need. \nRight? You don’t know their side of the problem. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Or you’re not aware of all the perspectives\, because once a group has spent time developing a plan\, even if it’s informally\, right\, you’ve just kind of gotten together and you’re like\, “Hey\, wouldn’t it be cool if we were addressing this issue?” \nIt becomes much harder to change direction\, there’s already momentum and some of those on the planning team might even become defensive of the plan\, even if they truly do want to hear feedback. \nLike we said\, we think people genuinely do want to hear feedback most of the time. And when it’s gotten to the point where you’re like\, you crafted something and you’re like\, “okay\, what does everyone think?” It’s already a little bit too late because there’s a plan in place\, right? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes\, and people can tell\, people know when you’re railroading them. If you’ve already put down the tracks and there’s already a car on the tracks and you’re like\, “See\, we’re [00:04:00] going to the zoo\,” or whatever\, and you’re like\, what is happening? The zoo is maybe a bad example\, but you know\, people can feel when you actually are willing to change things or when you’re just performing. \n“Oh yeah\, we care about your opinion\,” and it can really be demoralizing and just kind of like stop things before they get started. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, and I mean\, in all the reading I’ve done on this topic\, one thing that really stands out to me is that engagement isn’t just a set of tactics. I think a lot of times it’s how are you going to do your engagement? How are you going to do that? Is it going to be through surveys? \nAre you going to have community forums? Are you going to have a booth at the local fair where you\, you know\, have a clipboard and you’re asking people at the fair their opinion on things. \nIt’s more than that. This is something that needs to be embedded in how you work\, and timing is a really big part of building that embeddedness. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So in practice\, this could be a pretty simple shift. Like before you move forward with a plan or a [00:05:00] decision\, you pause and ask who or who else has direct actual experience with this issue? And have we talked with them yet? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. And\, have we talked to them in a real way\, right? Like that old 80/20 rule. You should be doing only 20% of the talking and the rest is all listening. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, I think those percentages are probably imaginary\, but I think the point behind them is so true because when you’re engaging the community\, you need to listen to what’s being said and also to what’s not being said. \nAnd small plug for our own podcast: we have a great episode called How to Read the Room. If you feel like you need more help figuring out what the community’s not saying\, you can check that out. We’ll put it in the show notes. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: All right. So the second part of this practice is called Closing the Loop\, this is also though where a lot of engagement efforts can break down. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, that makes sense. Imagine if people are asked for their input\, and then never hear what [00:06:00] happens or what decisions were made\, or they listened to the input session and absolutely none of it makes it into the final progress or project. \nAnd then they don’t explain why. Like there’s nothing at all about why the decisions were made the way they were made. Oof. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. And that’s a good way to put it. When there’s no clear connection between what they shared and the decisions that were ultimately made over time\, that makes it a lot harder to sustain engagement. So if you need to go back and get more engagement in the future\, they’re not sure that their input’s actually gonna be making a difference. \nSo the trust breaks down\, and engagement is ultimately about building trust. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. I think that that’s such an important thing to keep in mind as you’re deciding how you do engagement\, is that trust aspect because it’s easy to think\, “Oh\, they’re gonna be disappointed that we’re not doing what they asked us to do.” \nAnd the answer is like\, yeah\, they [00:07:00] probably might be disappointed. And that doesn’t inherently mean that you’re going to break trust. If you can explain\, “Here’s our reasoning\, here’s why we made the choice that we made. We understand you might be disappointed and we feel like this is the best path forward to meet x\, y\, z things.” \nAnd just even communicating an acknowledgement of\, “We know this isn’t what you expected\,” can leave space for trust to not be broken and completely destroyed. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, I love that. You know\, really taking what they said and sharing out ‘here’s what we heard.’ \nAnd not only that\, but having a little bit of sharing or sharing your work about how the input was not used\, right? Because both of those things matter. So sharing back about “Here’s how your input was used\, and oh\, we also have this input and we weren’t able to use it\,” because\, you know\, fill in the blank. \nClosing the loop tells people what you heard\, [00:08:00] what changed because of what you heard from them and what you couldn’t change and why you couldn’t change it? I cannot tell you how many times I’ve seen decisions that were made\, like new policies created\, things like that\, and they don’t share why they made the final decisions or what all went into those final decisions. \nThey don’t show their work\, but they expect everyone to get on board. It’s just so frustrating. And you know\, they don’t understand why people either reacted\, like we said earlier\, reacted to it\, or why they’re just not engaging with it. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, sorry\, I’m having flashbacks here. Sounds like that hit on some reality with you. There are many times where I wished that people just hadn’t even asked for my opinion because they didn’t even address it. And I was like\, “Well\, why did I waste my time with this? Right.” Oh\, ooh. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Not that you need more examples\, [00:09:00] I’m sure people have had a similar experience at some point\, so I am so on board with the showing your work. \nEven if you can just tell me why you made a different choice\, that is so helpful to me. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, even if I don’t agree with that\, like there have been times when someone did share with me why they didn’t go a certain direction\, it was a direction that they were just kind of showing their work about it in this way that we’re talking about. And I was able to disagree with the direction they went in\, yet I could go along with and support what was being done in the end because I understood\, I at least understood. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. Okay. So we just had a great long conversation. Can we just\, like\, in the shortest way possible\, can we just re-talk about the two components together? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Absolutely. \nSo I mean\, really what we talked about today was concepts that can be turned into practices\, right? So the first one is\, engaging with people before you [00:10:00] make any decisions. This is front loaded listening or front loaded co-creation\, whatever you want to call it. \nThis is about just taking that moment to pause when you’re in a collaborative effort\, especially one that calls for some community engagement and you say\, “What kind of engagement do we need? Who needs to be here? And\, “How can we engage with them? \nAnd then once you’ve done that\, do not forget to go back after the final decisions have been made. You’ve chosen a direction\, your project is going to go one direction or another. You need to go back then and say\, “Hey\, thank you so much. Here’s how your input is making a difference\, and here’s what we weren’t able to address and here’s why we weren’t able to address it.” \nThose are the two things that we’re asking you to do. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Beautiful. Thank you so much for that summary. \nSo I imagine that not every collaboration you work on will require community [00:11:00] engagement\, but those that do would benefit a lot from both of these strategies being used\, and specifically these two pieces being used together\, because they really do reinforce each other. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, you could think of them as bookends in a way. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I like that. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. They really do reinforce each other\, and when you engage with people before you make any decisions about the direction you’re going to go in\, you get better input and better alignment right from the start. \nAnd then when you close the loop\, you build the trust that makes future engagement stronger. \nIf we’re thinking about collaboration as a system\, working toward addressing important issues\, community voice has to be part of that system\, not something that sits outside of it. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. While community engagement can feel like one more thing and you don’t have time for it\, folding it into your process can help you build trust for the implementation [00:12:00] phases for future projects. \nAnd it’s so worth giving it a shot\, because if you think you don’t have time to do community engagement\, you don’t have time to do this project three or four times. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Love that. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I mean\, three or four is maybe not every project\, but if you think you don’t have time for engagement\, you definitely don’t have time to have to start all over two years from now. So just a little plug\, try it out. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That’s it for today’s episode. We’d love to hear what you thought about this episode. Send us your thoughts and questions at Practicing Connection@oneop.org. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: You can click the like or share button in your podcast app to share this with a friend or a coworker. \nWe’ll be back next week with a new episode. Until then\, keep practicing. \n[00:13:00]\nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/why-community-engagement-efforts-fall-flat/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260528T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260528T170000
DTSTAMP:20260608T153632Z
CREATED:20260528T100055Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260608T153632Z
UID:10001772-1779948000-1779987600@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Empathy in Action: Going Beyond Surface-Level Interactions
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTI1MTc2NSUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTkyNTE3NjUtZW1wYXRoeS1pbi1hY3Rpb24tZ29pbmctYmV5b25kLXN1cmZhY2UtbGV2ZWwtaW50ZXJhY3Rpb25zLmpzJTNGY29udGFpbmVyX2lkJTNEYnV6enNwcm91dC1wbGF5ZXItMTkyNTE3NjUlMjZwbGF5ZXIlM0RzbWFsbCUyMiUyMHR5cGUlM0QlMjJ0ZXh0JTJGamF2YXNjcmlwdCUyMiUyMGNoYXJzZXQlM0QlMjJ1dGYtOCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRnNjcmlwdCUzRQ==[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 22) \nEmpathy mapping is a simple tool for helping you imagine someone else and their experience. \nIn this From the Archive episode\, Bob and Jessica explore a powerful tool designed to deepen your connection with others—empathy mapping. \nWhether you’re working with military families\, service members\, or anyone navigating life’s challenges\, this practice can help you step into their shoes and understand their experiences on a whole new level. \nJessica shares her insights on how empathy mapping can move us beyond surface-level interactions\, offering practical steps to apply this tool in your work or personal life. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nEmpathy Map Activity\nOpening to Joy and Love by Sebene Selassie\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: [00:00:00] Welcome to Practicing Connection. I’m Erin\, and today we’re diving into empathy mapping as part of our From the Archive series. \nIn this series\, we’re updating and re-releasing retired content that we feel is still relevant today. I picked this episode for two reasons. One is in the first half\, Bob and Jessica have a short discussion about Joy that I absolutely love. \nI’ve been on the “work should be more joyful” train since my very first episode. So anytime I can bring joy into the conversation\, you know I’m going to do it. \nThe second reason is that empathy mapping is a really simple tool for a thing that we all need to do all of the time\, and that’s imagining someone else and their experience more complexly. \nA huge part of being a service provider or even just being a part of a community is working with people who are different from you. This is a nice tool to have in your back pocket for when you get stuck. \nI hope it’s as helpful to you as it is to me. \nBOB BERTSCH: [00:01:00] Thanks for listening to the Practicing Connection Podcast. I’m Bob\, my co-host\, Jessica is here as well. And today we’ll be diving into a tool that can really enhance our ability to connect with the people we serve. And Jessica will be sharing a practice with us related to that. Hi\, Jessica. First of all\, happy birthday. \nDid you have a good birthday? How was it? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I did. It was actually exactly what I needed several years ago. It kind of happened quite by accident. I started to take the day off from work\, which that part’s not an accident\, but I started to take the day off from work\, and that first year I just kind of tooled around town. \nI just went where I felt like going. And it felt so freeing and it reminded me of how much I enjoy an adventure\, even though\, you know\, I was really just kind of going around town. But I was going to different places and that I don’t normally go to\, and I was spending\, you know\, two hours in a bookstore just kind of [00:02:00] looking at books and\, you know\, looking at all the possibilities. \nSo yeah\, that’s what I did this year. I took the day off\, you know\, I went to some thrift stores. I enjoy the adventure of finding interesting\, odd antique pieces and I didn’t really find anything though. Yeah\, I just did a\, a few things like that. \nBOB BERTSCH: Well\, that’s awesome. It’s not about what you find\, right? It’s the journey \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Exactly. \nBOB BERTSCH: Looking for. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That’s exactly what it was for me. And I just kept gut checking\, like\, just because last year I went to a yarn store doesn’t mean this year I need to go to one. And\, uh\, just because in the past I’ve gone to a bookstore\, didn’t mean this year I needed to go to one and I didn’t. Even though that’s one of my favorite things to do on my birthdays to go to a bookstore. \nBut you know\, last year I bought two books and I am three quarters of the way through one of them at this point. So I’m like\, I don’t want any more books. Let me get through the ones I have. So \nBOB BERTSCH: well\, that sounds You doing awesome? I’m doing great. Yeah. I’ve been thinking about [00:03:00] joy\, \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: ah\, \nBOB BERTSCH: because of some meditations that I’ve been listening to. \nThe Zen teacher\, Charlotte Jo Beck has a quote and she said\, joy is exactly what is happening\, minus our opinion of it. And the. Recorded meditation I was listening to and she shared that quote\, which I hadn’t heard before. And seven A said that Charlotte Jo Beck was trying to get at the distinction between happiness and joy. \nAnd that’s something I really hadn’t. Thought about and one distinction that seven A shared was like\, happiness has an opposite\, right? Unhappiness\, but what’s the opposite of joy? And that was pretty thought provoking for me. Seven A describes joy as the capacity to appreciate the good in each moment without pushing away what might be unpleasant. \nSo I’ve been thinking about that a lot. Trying to get in touch with that feeling of joy in that sense that I’m willing to take things [00:04:00] as they are willing to let things be as they are\, and not confusing joy with happiness. So that’s not super inspirational or anything like that\, but it’s what I’ve been thinking about. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Oh\, that’s really interesting. And Snet is actually one of my favorite meditation people. I feel like anything she says\, I get some sort of inspiration out of this idea that it’s a joyful act to appreciate the good in the moment\, even when there might be some unpleasantness going on that is really thought provoking. \nI’m really glad you shared that. I’m\, I’m gonna have to think on it a little bit. \nBOB BERTSCH: So Jessica\, I know you’ve chosen to talk about empathy mapping today\, so could you share a little bit more about the activity and why you thought it was important to highlight it? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, absolutely. Um\, I’ve used [00:05:00] this activity quite a lot for developing communication strategies. Um\, so when we first talked about the idea of perspective taking\, um\, this of course kind of leapt to my mind. \nI pulled up my empathy mapping activities and started pouring over them and remembering really the successes I’ve seen people have as they’ve used it. So empathy mapping is often used in the context of marketing to design customer profiles. Communication strategy\, but I’ve also seen empathy mapping work really well as a tool for building understanding of a person. \nOr a group as we’ll talk about later. It’s not a perfect tool. It should be one of several tools\, but we’ll\, we’ll talk a little bit about that later. But for example\, I’ve used it to help community members get a better sense of where county board members are coming from. Recognizing that these officials really want to be good stewards of public dollars\, even when it might seem like they’re just kind of focused on the budget\, and that’s it. \nJust the dollars. It’s meant to help you [00:06:00] get past your assumptions and begin to understand someone else’s perspective. Um\, which is really important when working with military families and service members. \nBOB BERTSCH: Yeah\, that’s a great point. This idea of perspective taking is important to understand\, uh\, the unique challenges that military connected individuals face\, especially during transitions like deployment\, relocation or reintegration into civilian life. \nAnd really just to\, you know\, try and understand better everybody’s experience. ’cause we all come from different experiences and bring. Our experiences to whatever we’re dealing with in that moment. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, I appreciate that you put it that way. And you know\, this also ties into\, um\, something that we’ve talked briefly about called the Military Transitions Theory\, which provides a framework for understanding the various phases that military personnel and their families go through during their transitions. \nThe theory highlights the importance of understanding\, not just the physical changes [00:07:00] like moving to a new duty station\, but also the psychological and social adjustments that come with those changes. By taking the time to kind of see the world from a different perspective\, we can better support military families through these transitions and well\, that’s kind of why I thought of this activity. \nBOB BERTSCH: So how does it help us apply sort of our understanding of different perspectives in\, in practice\, in a practical way? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Um\, because it’s structured as a way to step into someone else’s shoes\, it can help us move beyond the surface level observations and really dig into what a person is experiencing. \nAgain\, we’ll go into this in a minute. This is one tool of many\, right? You are using your own knowledge of that person. To fill this out. So unless you’re ground truthing it\, you’re not really digging into what they’re experiencing. But it’s a way for you to start to see the perspective\, the different perspective. \nSo for military families\, this means understanding not just what they’re [00:08:00] doing or saying\, but also what they’re thinking and feeling as they navigate these transitions. Right? You might be hearing what they’re saying and seeing a little bit of what they’re doing\, but this really helps you dig a little bit into what they might be thinking and feeling as well. \nBOB BERTSCH: This is really interesting. I’m excited to learn how to use this. Could you walk us through how to put empathy mapping into practice? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Absolutely. So we’ve provided a link in the show notes where you can download the template. This template has kind of a goofy looking individual in the middle of the paper and around this individual are some different areas for you to focus on. \nAnd\, um\, add your notes too. So in the first box\, you’re gonna wanna start with defining who you’re focusing on. It’s often really\, really helpful to think of someone specific. So even if you are trying to think of a group of people\, try to think of someone specific. A military spouse who’s just relocated\, perhaps a veteran transitioning to civilian life\, or a kid [00:09:00] coping with a parent’s deployment. \nDepending on what your role is\, think about a person. Then consider their goal something that they need to do. So for example\, maybe a military spouse needs to build a new support network after a move\, depending on what your role is\, figure out what kind of goal they’ve come to you for. This goal should be something observable\, something you can see them trying to achieve. \nThen you’re gonna move on to thinking about what they see around them. So there’s another box there that says\, what do they see? What’s their environment like? Are they surrounded by new places\, unfamiliar faces\, or challenging situations? So understanding what they see can give us insight into their daily reality. \nAnd then move on to looking at what they might be saying to others. So what are they communicating about their experiences? This can reveal a lot about their mindset and what’s important to them\, which will be really helpful to you later. And then after you move on to thinking about what they’re [00:10:00] doing to reach their goal. \nSo are they already taking steps to connect with others? Are they seeking out resources? Are they trying to maintain their routines and trying to maintain some structure in their lives? Finally\, you would listen to what they are hearing. So this sounds kind of confusing because I said we’ve gone through. \nUh\, what are they seeing\, saying\, doing\, but what are they hearing? What are the advice\, the opinions and expectations that they might be hearing from those around them? And then finally\, look inward after considering these external experiences. So what they’re seeing\, saying\, doing\, and hearing\, we shift to their internal world. \nThis is where you can focus on their thoughts and feelings. So what emotions might they be dealing with? I think there’s a lot of information out there for some of these transitions about the typical emotions that people go through as they’re experiencing things like deployment\, for example. So what emotions are they dealing with? \nWhat worries or hopes might they be carrying? And [00:11:00] this part of the empathy map helps us connect with their experience on a deeper level. All of that said\, I have some tips. I’ve alluded to it a couple of times already. I really want you to consider a tool like this to be one tool among many\, and the practice should really be approached with care\, using it together with other methods and feedback mechanisms. \nSo what I mean by that\, for example. Keep in mind that empathy mapping starts with what you know of a person you can\, and you should find ways to ground truth your map\, or you could end up with superficial insights. Um\, you could also end up with some stereotyping. And things like that. Another tip I have is just like any activity\, try to go into it with an awareness of the biases and assumptions that you have that may affect the results. \nSo for example\, with financial clients\, you could do the financial genogram activity we talked about some weeks ago on this podcast. Um\, that could help widen your awareness of your biases and [00:12:00] assumptions when it comes to financial applications. Otherwise\, the process could end up being more of a reflection of your views than the actual experiences of the person being mapped. \nAnd then lastly. Consider the systemic or structural factors that affect people when completing your map. The empathy map activity often focuses on individual experiences\, so definitely keep those other things in mind. So I know that those are three really big tips\, but I would not let that scare you away from going through this activity ’cause I’ve gone through it many\, many times with people and it is really a helpful tool. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That’s it for this episode. Thank you for joining us. If you do this empathy mapping exercise\, we would love to hear how it went. You can email us at practicingconnection@oneop.org or use the link in the show notes. \nWe’ll be back next week. Until then\, keep practicing. \n[00:13:00]\nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/empathy-in-action/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260521T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260521T170000
DTSTAMP:20260608T155008Z
CREATED:20260521T100054Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260608T155008Z
UID:10001771-1779343200-1779382800@oneop.org
SUMMARY:School Liaisons and Extension: A Network of Support for Military Youth
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTE4NzU5OCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTkxODc1OTgtc2Nob29sLWxpYWlzb25zLWFuZC1leHRlbnNpb24tYS1uZXR3b3JrLW9mLXN1cHBvcnQtZm9yLW1pbGl0YXJ5LXlvdXRoLmpzJTNGY29udGFpbmVyX2lkJTNEYnV6enNwcm91dC1wbGF5ZXItMTkxODc1OTglMjZwbGF5ZXIlM0RzbWFsbCUyMiUyMHR5cGUlM0QlMjJ0ZXh0JTJGamF2YXNjcmlwdCUyMiUyMGNoYXJzZXQlM0QlMjJ1dGYtOCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRnNjcmlwdCUzRQ==[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 21) \nWhen military kids move\, their whole world shifts—schools\, friends\, routines\, and support systems.  \nIn this episode of Practicing Connection\, school liaison Karen Watkins-Diouf and 4-H educator Jeremiah Johnson share how they work together across military and civilian systems to make sure those kids don’t fall through the cracks. \nMilitary-connected kids move more often than most of their peers\, and every move disrupts their relationships\, routines\, and sense of belonging at school and in the community. In this episode of Practicing Connection\, we talk with Karen Watkins-Diouf\, Army School Liaison at Fort Campbell’s Army Child & Youth Services\, and Jeremiah Johnson\, Christian County Extension Agent for 4-H Youth Development at the University of Kentucky. \nKaren and Jeremiah describe what school liaisons and county Extension educators actually do\, how their roles intersect\, and how their partnership creates a wider network of support for military families—on and off the installation. They share practical stories about bridging military and civilian systems\, navigating “two languages\,” and keeping families at the center when youth are dealing with repeated transitions. \nYou’ll hear concrete ideas for connecting with school liaisons and 4-H in your own area\, and a simple first step any school\, organization\, or community leader can take to start building similar collaborations to support military-connected youth. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nLook up the 4-H military liaison in your state: https://www.4-hmilitarypartnership.org/find-your-liaison.html\nFind a Military School Liaison near you: https://installations.militaryonesource.mil/search?program-service=12/view-by=ALL\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n  \n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Hi\, welcome to the Practicing Connection Podcast. I’m Erin Carlson Rivera. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And I am Jessica Beckendorf. I’m really excited for this episode because I’ve been learning a bit about the important role of school liaisons\, as a hub and a connector in the networks of support for military families\, and I’m looking forward to diving into this conversation to learn more. \nOur guests today are Karen Watkins-Diouf\, Army-School Liaison at Fort Campbell’s Army Child and Youth Services\, and Jeremiah Johnson\, Christian County Extension agent for 4-H Youth Development at the University of Kentucky. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Karen has been a dedicated Army school liaison for four years now with the Army Child and Youth Services\, to expand over 25 years of CYS experience to her mission of supporting military connected families. Her journey includes roles as a teacher\, curriculum specialist\, and a director within Army childcare programs\, when she isn’t serving military families. \nKaren is a published children’s book author [00:01:00] and currently working on her second book. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That’s so cool. And with over a decade of experience in 4-H youth development\, Jeremiah focuses on leadership\, agriculture\, and supporting military connected youth through programs in STEM\, financial literacy and civic engagement. \nHe’s also a published author and a nationally recognized leader in 4-H\, including receiving the Distinguished Service Award from the National Association of Extension 4-H Agents. \nHi\, Karen and Jeremiah. Thank you so much for joining us on Practicing Connection. \nKAREN WATKINS: Good morning. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So Karen I’d love to start with you. Could you walk us through what a school liaison actually does\, day to day? Because I think a lot of people might not fully understand the scope of your role\, or maybe I should just speak for myself\, because I don’t fully understand the scope of your role. And the more I learn\, the more I want to learn. \nWhat does it look like? \nKAREN WATKINS: A pretty large scope. School liaisons are located at each installation\, and we are the [00:02:00] main contact for military families\, local school systems. And we also work hand in hand with our command team\, the installation leadership on the installation\, so we work with our top commanders on the installation for school related matters. \nWe’re their subject matter experts for school related matters\, pre-K through 12th grade. We also build partnerships with the civilian and military community to help address common education challenges that military families have. We help with school transitions\, when military families are moving stateside or overseas to other schools. We contact other school liaisons to help with that school transition process. \nAnd we do so many other things\, but school transitions are our main job. We help with deployment support\, college and career readiness. We do parent and educator workshops\, me and the other school liaison that I work with here. It’s two of us\, and I work with Laquvia Garrett. We are both Certified Master [00:03:00] Resiliency trainers. \nSo we do a lot of resiliency training for military students in the schools. We work closely with counselors – military life consultants. We also work closely with the military interstate compact\, the Mik 3\, to make sure that schools are in compliance with military children. \nIt’s a lot. We do a lot every day\, all day\, and we work all summer. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Oh\, you work all summer? \nKAREN WATKINS: Yes\, planning for the next school year. And we’re also before and after school programs\, doing workshops and things like that for the youth. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So Jeremiah\, for listeners who might not know what a county extension educator does\, can you give us a quick picture of your role in general\, and then share how 4-H youth development fits into supporting the military community? \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: Yeah\, definitely. So as a county extension agent for 4-H here in Kentucky\, our role is to\, in short\, [00:04:00] take research-based practices and educational opportunities for families and youth in our counties from that university. And using a list of needs that our county has identified\, we take those back to the county so that we’re able to have the most impact and meet the needs of our county. \nWe cover a ton of different areas ranging from agriculture\, natural resources\, communications\, expressive arts\, healthy living\, leadership\, civic engagement\, the list goes on. But we have a ton of different opportunities. \nAt the end of the day though\, it’s all about that research based curriculum and resources that we have. I think that sets us apart. And allows us to have the greatest impact for families in our community when it comes to military audiences. \nWe add another level to that in that you look at military families\, oftentimes they’re very transient\, so they’re moving all over all the [00:05:00] time. And extension is national. \nWe exist all across the country\, and we are that consistency for families\, for youth\, so that whenever you move and you’ve got a kid that maybe they’re in Georgia a week ago and now they’re in Kentucky\, 4-H can be that consistency. \nSo it’s a lot of similar programs. Maybe not exactly a mirror of each other\, but it’s a lot of similar programs for those families\, and it creates that sense of consistency and belonging for those youth. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Wow\, I hadn’t thought about that. I’ve worked at Extension for a long time myself\, but I can see that kind of continuity piece being really impactful\, especially for young people. \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: Yeah\, definitely. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I wish I had known about 4-H when I was a military kid. It’s funny though because my mom was really involved in 4- in Wisconsin\, before she met my dad when she was a kid\, [00:06:00] and when I started working for Extension and I saw all the things that 4-H does\, I was like\, “Mom\, it’s not just animals! It’s all these other things. I could have joined that.” And she was like\, ‘Oh yeah\, I know. I used to do sewing all the time.” \nAnd I’m like\, why didn’t you tell me?! \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: Right. 4-H has grown so far beyond what you traditionally expect. One of our largest areas in our county is consumer and financial education. Just basic finance for families\, and who doesn’t need that\, whether you’re a kid or an adult\, like that is something that we have found that transcends generations. \nBut also it doesn’t matter your background and which installation you’re transferring from or anything like that. Like that is something that is needed. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Just before this meeting\, Jeremiah\, you and I talked a little bit or we were all talking a little bit about how your collaboration with Karen\, or Karen\, your collaboration with Jeremiah\, has been [00:07:00] ongoing since you guys met on different projects. \nSo how did the two of you first connect\, what was that initial spark that kind of brought a school liaison and an extension educator together? I mean\, already we see all of the reasons why you should connect\, but tell us your story. \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: So I think what’s that saying? ‘Hindsight’s 2020.’ When I first started this journey\, trying to find ways to partner with military youth\, I didn’t really know where to go. I didn’t know I guess where that door was to walk in. \nAnd it all happened by accident. Karen and I just happened to be on a Zoom call that was talking about 4-H programs and resources that were coming out\, and a new curriculum that was coming out\, and it was one of those\, I mean\, we’ve all been on those Zoom calls. \nIntroduce yourself in the chat. And I saw her name pop up and it said\, Fort Campbell\, Kentucky. \nAnd I said\, hold on a minute. So I’m immediately chatting over here\, “Hey uh\, Ms. Karen\,[00:08:00] let’s set up a meeting and talk. I’m in Christian County\, I’m right here with you.” \nThat’s really how we met the first time. \nKAREN WATKINS: Yep. And the rest is history. \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: Right. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, and I think\, Jeremiah\, you were mentioning that one of the things Karen was working on at the time was homeschool kids. And I guess\, how did you start realizing that there’s a potentially great partnership here? \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: I think it was after that call. I emailed Karen\, we chatted\, we sat down and had a meeting\, and then it was one of those we already had some programming going on at Fort Campbell. It wasn’t to the level it is now by any means. \nAnd so we talked about that\, and that’s when I learned a lot about what Karen’s job is and how she is extremely connected with every aspect of the installation. And she had that pulse on what was going on and what was needed. And so Karen brought up the idea of homeschool [00:09:00] groups and how we serve that population. \nKAREN WATKINS: Yeah. Because one of the services to include what a school liaison does is non-traditional homeschooling options for families and including homeschooling. We have a large population of homeschool families on the installation. \nAnd most people don’t think of military families as homeschooling because we have schools on the installation. If we have an installation that has schools\, you know\, civilians assume\, Oh\, they don’t do that. But no\, we have a large population of homeschool families. \nBut the other school liaison that I worked for\, me and Mr. Revia\, we were in the process of rebuilding our homeschool program to offer lots of options. And I was getting a lot of questions from parents. They would call the office and they would want resources\, but the parents were asking the same questions. It was like different parents with same questions. And I’m a data person\, so I’m like writing this down and I’m putting little check marks by the questions that were asked again. \nAnd [00:10:00] so I went to my coworker and I was like\, “Hey. I’ve got a lot of homeschool parents asking a lot of the same questions\, wanting resources. They want different things just for homeschool families.” \nBecause you know\, home school families can feel isolated\, because they’re kind of set apart. And so I went to her and I was like\, “Why don’t we have a meet and greet or something?” So then I started asking parents what they would like to have for their children? And they were like “Well\, can’t we have some of the same things that the schools have and things like that.’ \nSo I start researching\, and I’m a 4-H kid\, I grew up in a rural town\, and I was like\, man\, we should try to get some 4-H programming in. And then that’s when Jeremiah\, I was talking to him about it and then when he reached out to me and I was like\, “Hey\, how can we incorporate 4-H into our homeschool program?” \nSo that’s how we like really got that started because I started asking the parents and pulling the parents\, “Hey\, [00:11:00] would you like 4-H?” And again\, that continuity of care with 4-H\, it’s national. Then parents were like\, “Oh my gosh\, I was a 4-H kid and I did this. Yes\, we would love to have that.” And we didn’t have that here\, in our homeschool program. \nSo Jeremiah and I got together and we started building it in our program. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Wow. That’s great. So it sounds like you guys work pretty closely together. What do you think is the thing that really makes collaborating work for the two of you? \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: We talked a lot about this the other day. I think it’s just open and consistent communication. \nKAREN WATKINS: Mm-hmm. I think a lot of times whenever you’re trying to partner with folks\, like\, we both ask a lot of questions to each other about the program. You name it\, we’ve talked about it. And it has really blown my mind. \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: I’ve learned a lot about Karen’s job through that\, but I’ve also learned a lot about the installation and what things there are. And so it’s just those open lines of communication with each other [00:12:00] to better understand what all we can each offer and through discussions we were like\, oh\, we can join together on this project. \nAnd so we’ve found some other avenues of involvement with the installation now too\, because of that. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, the more you’re in contact with someone\, the more opportunities and the more you think of them too\, when you’re like\, “Oh\, I wonder if Karen’s thought about this before\,” and then you just keep the conversation going. \nIt sounds like you guys have done that really well. Cross sector partnerships\, and this is one of them I think\, even though you guys have a lot in common\, but cross-sector partnerships can be really tricky. Military and civilian organizations don’t always speak the same language. What’s been your approach to bridging that gap? \nI hear this\, by the way\, from all of the cross-sector folks that I’ve talked to that ended up collaborating. I think this was one of the biggest things they had to overcome. “Sometimes I don’t know that it was yours\,” but yeah. What’s your approach to bridging that? \nKAREN WATKINS: So one of the things\, [00:13:00] me being on the military side\, there are lots of regulations. Okay. So there are lots of regulations\, acronyms\, you know\, limits to things that I explained to Jeremiah. \nHe’ll say\, “Karen\, what about this?” And I’ll be like\, “Oh\, well\, according to article so and so regulation this\, we can’t do that.” So me understanding the military side of what can be done\, what can’t\, as far as military children and installations\, that helps us a lot. \nAnd me explaining acronyms to him\, “Hey\, Karen\, what does that mean?” And blah\, blah\, blah. And then I’ll explain to him. So on my side\, that helps us a lot. \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: Yeah\, I was definitely going to say both the military and extension love some acronyms\, and none of them makes sense to anybody if you’re not in that circle. \nKAREN WATKINS: Exactly. \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: So it was like\, we have had to sit down and be like\, “What are you talking about? I don’t know what this is..” or\, “Oh\, [00:14:00] that means this for us.” \nKAREN WATKINS: Yeah. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And then even within organizations\, and Karen\, I’m not sure if this is true for the military\, but within Extension\, like I don’t know what 4-H acronyms are and Jeremiah\, I’m sure that if I told you some of the acronyms from\, you know\, community and economic development\, you’d be like\, “What?” \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: Right\, right. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Does that happen in the military as well\, like across the silos? The acronyms are difficult. \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: I would say so. We talked the other day because we work with a lot of other 4-H agents that are working with other installations\, and even from the different branches\, school liaisons sometimes are called different titles\, or they’ve got just school liaison officer or school liaison. So it’s really knowing that branch of the military and how those positions work. \nBecause I’m telling you\, we love some acronyms. They love some acronyms. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: What about\, I want to take this in a different way [00:15:00] as well\, there’s the language\, there’s the literal language\, but what about ways of working also\, did you find anything that you had to navigate there? \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: I think it’s more of a reporting piece on the backside\, but again\, we just call them different things. \nKAREN WATKINS: Mm-hmm. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Got it. \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: Where the army might call it a storyboard\, I’m calling it a success story. Like it’s the same thing. We’re highlighting what all we’ve done and the statistics and all that. \nKAREN WATKINS: Yeah. And we do have to report that. Because the army\, yeah\, we have 4-H and BGCA programming in our programs\, our youth programs. So it’s expected of us\, and then we have to show\, “Okay\, you’re utilizing this\, is it useful for you?” And things like that. \nBecause the Army wants to make sure that the programming is very useful for youth. So the more we use it\, the more the Army is looking into it. Like Jeremiah and I with this homeschool [00:16:00] programming\, it’s like it got recognized at the top\, “Wow\, look at what Fort Campbell’s doing with homeschool.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Oh. \nKAREN WATKINS: So that data is important. Yeah. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That’s great to hear. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So this is either\, one of you can answer or both if you both feel passionate about it\, can you share a specific moment or story where you saw that your collaboration made a real difference for a military family? \nKAREN WATKINS: We were talking yesterday\, but I did\, ’cause I have to\, again\, data with the Army\, I have to write everything down. \nBut I have a family that came for – we have to send homeschool resources. There’s a process. If they’re on the installation\, they send a letter of intent to the superintendent. Then the superintendent just sends their name to our office and we supply them with tutor.com resources\, and other things that parents are asking about. \nAnd I had this one parent\, and Jeremiah\, I don’t know if you remember her\, but she was at the homeschool meet and greet last September. And she sat in on the session that [00:17:00] you gave for the parents\, the workshops\, and she was a 4-H kid herself and things like that. \nAnd she sent me what we call an ice comment\, where parents or patrons\, on the military base\, they can gripe or they can brag about an experience they had\, and she put in an ice comment and it was a good one. And she was so excited about homeschool program and how helpful we were to her. \nAnd then she just went on and on about 4-H\, and she says\, “My children are going to get to experience 4-H\,” you know\, like she did\, as a youth. So I thought that was really cool. I can think of it yesterday\, Jeremiah\, but yeah\, she put in an ice comment. \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: I love it. \nKAREN WATKINS: Really cool. You know you’re doing the right thing when those simple things like that\, when parents let you know that it was an asset to them. \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: I think even that day at the kickoff for homeschool families\, we received a lot of comments that were [00:18:00] like\, “We finally have something that we can do with our kids\, and we’re not left in the dark\,” because so many things are just tied directly to the schools or the centers. This was something that we could just make happen. \nAnd I will say\, go back to partnerships. And those communications. When Karen came to me with the idea or the need of homeschool programming\, she had already found a partnership on the installation where we were going to have access to a facility. It had gymnasiums in it. It had a computer lab\, it had a kitchen. \nSo we could do all the things that a traditional club would do\, and have the resources there available with staff that were ready to help make it happen. \nKAREN WATKINS: Yeah\, our CYS sports program\, shout out to Ms. Page. And she was excited about it because years ago\, you know\, they had some 4-H\, activities going on in the building and then she was [00:19:00] like\, “Oh my gosh\, this would be great.” \nAnd so when we all met\, then we just started expounding on stuff. We knew that we were having our homeschool PE. Because we have homeschool PE there\, and so when we have our homeschool meet and greet on the day of the meet and greet\, they sign up for homeschool PE. They get to meet the staff that’s going to be working with their child. Then of course they get to meet Jeremiah and get to have a parent workshop\, a 4-H parent workshop\, and then they get to see my face. \nIt’s so funny when we have the meet and greets because I only connect with them through email. So when they come to the meet and greet\, they go and then they’re hugging me. So the whole school is like this little\, this one little community. So it’s like really cool when they see me\, and Ms. We are face to face\, when they know us over email  all year and they finally get to see us. \nAnd Jeremiah and I\, we’re planning more things to do for the homeschool families. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That’s awesome. \nKAREN WATKINS: Yeah. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So I know that Fort Campbell spans multiple counties and [00:20:00] states. I’m wondering\, do the extension educators from those other counties\, and the others in Tennessee as well\, do you all get together and coordinate? \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: So I’ve met with some of them a few separate times. So as you all are aware\, every state has different extension resources. So there are some things that I do not have as much of that Tennessee might have. So they’re helping out with some of those things. \nThey’re also doing a lot of military programs for those families that live off the installation in their community\, and we keep\, again\, open communication with them\, because we have some families that are homeschooled associated with Fort Campbell\, but maybe live on the Tennessee side. \nSo we still have those conversations with those agents to keep them in the loop and work with them on providing opportunities for their families regardless of what their zip code is or where they live. \nKAREN WATKINS: And [00:21:00] we make sure we invite them to the meet and greet. And we had a lot more this last time from the Montgomery County area that came to the meet and greet. Some of them come on the installation for their homeschool PE requirement and things like that. And because we have the 4-H\, we’re getting a lot more families coming to do the enrichment programming. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That’s great. \nKAREN WATKINS: Yeah\, it is. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Let’s talk a little bit about the off-installation stuff. So Karen\, you are available to work with any school or organization in the state that wants to support military kids. And maybe I should say military school liaisons or school liaisons are available to work with any school or organization in the state that wants to support military kids\, not just those that are near the installation. \nDo you get a sense that like everyone knows that\, I mean\, how do you get the word out about that? Because that’s something that I had not heard and I had no idea. \nKAREN WATKINS: We not only serve the schools wherever there are military [00:22:00] connected students\, we are there for everyone. We not only serve the M post schools\, but we have Clarksville\, Montgomery County\, and she and I split the county because it’s a large county. \nAnd then we have Stewart County\, Tri County\, Todd County. So we have surrounding counties\, wherever there are military connected students\, we are there to offer services. So we are in those schools. \nAnd we really had to introduce ourselves\, reintroduce ourselves when we got this job to the schools again: who we were\, let them know what school we are assigned to and that we are here to assist you. And once those principals and assistant principals and counselors realize who we are and what we can offer them\, but we had to put ourselves out to let them know that it’s\, “Wow they utilize our service.” \nAnd then we’re in a community. We’re at the autism walk. We set up information booths. We have the gold star wives festival\, we set up a table there. So we are [00:23:00] out there in the community. We just finished our month of the military child fest last weekend\, and Jeremiah was there. And he and I set up a table together\, and there were so many parents coming in when they saw the 4-H. \nSo that’s how we get that word out\, we have to put ourselves out there. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Wow. \nKAREN WATKINS: We get out\, and then we get invited to a lot of different things. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: If there’s a school across the state that has a few military connected kids in it and they’re like\, “Hey\, we’d like to know how we can make sure these kids feel welcomed and stuff\,” is that something they can call you about? \nKAREN WATKINS: Yes\, because we have a program called Army Youth Sponsorship\, and just like years ago\, soldiers\, when they would go to installation stateside or overseas\, they would be assigned a sponsor for that family\, and that sponsor would help that family get acclimated to the area. Help them with where to go to register for school\, basic things when you move to a new place\, you want to know [00:24:00]. \nThe Army had sponsors\, well now we have Army Youth Sponsorship\, so we have youth sponsors for the children\, yes. We train the counselors and the administration on Army Youth Sponsorship Training\, explain to them how it works. They get a banner for their school. So they know that they get excited for being an Army Youth Sponsorship School\, they get this big Army youth sponsorship banner. \nSo when military families move and they come to a civilian school and they walk in\, they go\, “Oh\, wow. They have an Army Youth Sponsorship program for my youth.” And it is youth driven. We train the staff and then they incorporate it in their programs. We have Purpose Star schools. Purpose Star schools are schools that are in the state that are recognized as military-friendly. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nKAREN WATKINS:So we have Army Youth Sponsorship and we have purple star schools\, and we let the administration know\, “Hey\, this is what we can do for you.” \n[00:25:00] The training is free. This is part of our job that we have to do. And they get recognized. We get proclamations from the mayors in Christian County and Montgomery County every year to be recognized as purple star schools and purple up day. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: It’s a whole community of support. \nYou know\, I ask that partly because I think not a lot of people realize that military families are more spread out than we think they are. A lot of times they’re not just on or right next to the installation. \nKAREN WATKINS: Right. Because they may be in a reserve unit\, yeah. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes. Reserve guard and active duty. They’re more spread out than we often think. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. I think this one is for Jeremiah\, so extension educators are in nearly every county\, and school liaisons are positioned near every installation. That’s a really powerful alignment as you’ve talked about earlier. \nDo you see potential for [00:26:00] that to be leveraged more broadly outside of the two of you across Kentucky\, or in other places nationally? Do you think this is a type of partnership that could be duplicated in other places? \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: Definitely. That was something we talked about the other day. When Karen and I first met\, it was just by happenstance. I did not know what her role was. I didn’t know how it fit in\, and I’m gonna be honest\, the school liaison officer is\, I don’t want to say the gatekeeper\, but they’re the front door to the installation. They know all the connections. \nAnd I think if there are other extension educators out there that don’t know that\, it’s going to be more difficult for them to build those partnerships with the installation\, it’s going to be more difficult for them to find those connections. And I think if they start with school liaison or school liaison officers\, it opens a lot of doors for them. \nAnd it also helps create partnerships that are meaningful because like I said earlier\, Karen [00:27:00] has a pulse on the needs of Fort Campbell\, so she knows where we need to help as far as programming and curriculum and specific things. And if she doesn’t know\, she knows who to talk to to get that answer. \nSo this partnership has been very good\, and it is something that can be replicated very easily elsewhere in the country. Even in Kentucky\, we’ve got folks with our other installation\, there’s some active duty soldiers that are at that installation\, but their kids are located four or five counties away. Because when they came back to Kentucky\, the mom wanted to live with a grandparent\, and it just made it simpler for the family. \nYou know what I mean? But the school liaison folks are still able to help that family out\, even though they’re not really right there next to the installation. So I think just recognizing that partnership and then on the extension side\, I’m able to communicate that with some of the other extension agents so that they know that that’s a good resource for them and that they can continue to build [00:28:00] partnerships there to support all kids. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that\, Jeremiah\, it sounds like the two of you\, like you said\, it was a happenstance kind of meeting. But in a way\, you know\, Karen\, you chose to be at that meeting that day. Jeremiah\, you chose to be there also. I have meetings that\, or I should say Erin and I have meetings now\, that we go to in our state where we get the word out about even just OneOp. \nAnd I’ve been carting around some 4-H cars\, because Wisconsin 4-H has had some activities going on for military families\, and so I’ve been carting around some slides for them\, and so I make sure that this information’s being shared. And we’ve had people come up to us after meetings saying\, “How have I never heard of you?” \nIf we don’t get out there\, that’s not going to happen\, or people aren’t going to know. And so I guess where I’d like to go next with this is\, maybe Karen\, I’ll start with you. And Jeremiah\, please chime in as well. [00:29:00]\nYou guys met by chance. And it’s great. And now you both know so much more about the work that you all do and you can build off of that. So keeping that in mind\, what do you wish more community organizations understood about how to support military families? \nKAREN WATKINS: I wish they understood\, first of all\, that it’s possible\, and then the possibilities. Utilize the resources that we have. \nA lot of times when we go to schools and we tell them what’s available to them\, just like you said\, they’ll say\, “Oh\, I didn’t know you existed!” Or they don’t really take on the opportunity of utilizing the resources that we have. \nAnd in schools we are assigned at\, I wish that schools knew to utilize\, when we make our visits\, we have mandated visits that we have to make. So when we come in and do a visit and we say\, “How can we help you? Could we help with this? Could we do this?” [00:30:00] Take advantage of that. \nI just don’t think schools realize the advantages and the bridge that school liaisons have. We don’t want to come in just when there’s issues or problems\, or when a parent comes in and wants us to help resolve an issue with their child’s education. \nSo we really want them to know that we are there to help with other things too. Really positive things\, yeah. \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: Yeah\, and I\, backing that up\, honestly simply put\, it’s easy to partner. I think as a community partner\, sometimes when you think of military installations\, you know\, there’s regulations\, there’s rules\, there’s specific things you have to follow. And I think for some partners they think about that and they’re like\, “I just don’t have time. I can’t make this work.” \nAnd that’s where Karen comes in. She already knows those policies\, she knows the connection\, she knows all of that. So [00:31:00] Karen and school liaison officers are able to put your fears at ease\, but also say\, “Here’s the things\, here’s the areas we can focus on. Here’s the resources we need\,” and really open those doors. \nKAREN WATKINS: Yeah\, the support is easy. I really want them to know that it’s simple. The support is so easy and we’re so willing. Our command team on the installation\, our garrison commander\, our command Sergeant Major\, they want to help. \nWe have a meeting every year called the start meeting. It’s a strategic meeting where all of the local superintendents and school directors come in and they express the needs that they have\, and they talk about what’s going good and what’s not going good in the schools. \nSo our command\, our Army command is very interested\, and want to help support not only our military connected students\, but our military community\, our community as a whole. They just need to see how easy it could be and how helpful it could be\, that’s what I wish they [00:32:00] knew. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, at the end of the day\, it’s about supporting kids and the families\, and so how awesome it is that there are so many people out there that want to do this. And I would say extension and the school liaisons\, the more I learn about the school liaisons\, you guys both make it easy to partner. \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: We try to. The CYS folks at Fort Campbell are absolutely amazing\, and Karen has been that gateway to make it happen and just to have those open discussions about partnerships and things\, it’s been wonderful. \nKAREN WATKINS: Fort Campbell is pretty cool. \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: I agree. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: You’re not at all biased though! \nKAREN WATKINS: Great leadership. We have great leadership though\, you know\, our leadership is awesome\, \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. \nOkay. I have one final question. I often hear this idea\, and I think probably both of you can answer this\, but I’ll probably start with Jeremiah and then Karen\, you can do the follow up. But I often hear this [00:33:00] idea that the military takes care of their own\, and then there’s this silent addendum of\, “Oh\, so we don’t have to care about it.” \nAnd I am curious what would you say to people who don’t conceptualize military families as being a part of their community? \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: I look at it as I serve everyone in my community\, period. It doesn’t matter about background or anything like that. We’re here to serve our entire community\, and I do think the military provides a lot of wonderful resources for their families\, but we also have additional resources for them. \nBut part like Ms. Karen said earlier\, part of some of the requirements for the installation is they have to have extension and 4-H programming there. So yes\, they provide for families\, but we are part of that. We’re providing that piece for them\, I guess is what I’m trying to say. And it helps us serve all youth\, period. \nKAREN WATKINS: And like our youth\, like you said\, the programming is through that programming. \nWhen me and Ms. Laquvia\, when we go [00:34:00] into public schools and we do resiliency programming\, that’s not just for military connected students. So we touch everyone. Yes\, it’s for everyone. \nSo when we do these things\, just like youth sponsorship\, when we go in and we train counselors and administrators in schools on youth sponsorship\, that programming\, it touches every student. So it doesn’t matter who moves to that new school\, they’re still going to have a youth sponsorship team of youth welcoming them and something like that. So our programming\, what we do\, our services\, what we do for the military community\, it serves all youth. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nKAREN WATKINS: We happen to be there because of the military\, but our programming and what’s so awesome about it\, it spills over into the community. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That’s wonderful. That’s wonderful. I mean\, creating places that people can feel like they [00:35:00] belong includes\, you know\, including everyone in that discussion. \nIf there’s an organization or a school that wanted to make sure they were supporting their military families\, whether that school is\, across the state from the nearest installation or right next to the nearest installation\, what’s the first step you would tell them to take? \nAnd this could be for either one of you. Maybe I’ll start with you\, Karen. Of course. \nKAREN WATKINS: Start with me. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Start with the – so even if they’re across the state\, they should contact the liaison at the nearest installation. Okay. \nKAREN WATKINS: Because even if they contact me from another state\, I can contact another school liaison in that state. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So everyone contact Karen! \nKAREN WATKINS: Yeah\, Yeah. You know\, I can connect them with the school leads. And that’s what we do for our soldiers when they’re moving and they fill out paperwork and say\, “Hey\, I’m moving to Alabama.” And we’re [00:36:00] like\, “Oh\, okay\, I got that.” They fill out paperwork\, I get all their information. I send that transition referral to the school liaison in Alabama\, and that’s how that works. \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: Yeah\, definitely your first stop should be to call your school liaison office. I will add that is one area that we communicate the same on. There is a national network of 4-H military liaisons\, and every state has one point of contact. So if you’re on the school liaison side and you’re wondering how to get in touch with 4-H and you don’t have that local connection yet\, simply do an internet search and you will find a searchable database by state of 4-H liaisons\, and they can connect you with the local folks or they can help you work through that and how to have that partnership. \nSo the word of the day is liaison\, whether it’s school liaison or the 4-H one\, but it will get you to the right direction. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: [00:37:00] Thank you so much for joining us\, Karen and Jeremiah. I have really learned a lot about the school liaisons\, and I would love to talk with more of them. So\, Karen\, I’m going to call you since you’re the first point of contact for school liaisons. \nThank you so much for joining us\, both of you. \nJEREMIAH JOHNSON: Thank you for having us. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That’s it for this episode. Thank you so much for joining us. If you’ve enjoyed today’s episode\, click the share button in your podcast app to share it with a friend. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: We’d like to thank our announcer Kaylyn Gobel\, Maggie Lucas\, and Joyce Fond for their help marketing and Nathan Grim\, who composed and performed all the music you hear on the podcast. We hope you’ll listen again soon. \nUntil then\, keep practicing. \n[00:38:00]\nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/school-liaisons-and-extension-a-network-of-support/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260514T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260514T170000
DTSTAMP:20260603T201036Z
CREATED:20260514T100007Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260603T201036Z
UID:10001770-1778738400-1778778000@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Who's Missing From Your Network?
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTE2ODA3MiUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTkxNjgwNzItd2hvLXMtbWlzc2luZy1mcm9tLXlvdXItbmV0d29yay5qcyUzRmNvbnRhaW5lcl9pZCUzRGJ1enpzcHJvdXQtcGxheWVyLTE5MTY4MDcyJTI2cGxheWVyJTNEc21hbGwlMjIlMjB0eXBlJTNEJTIydGV4dCUyRmphdmFzY3JpcHQlMjIlMjBjaGFyc2V0JTNEJTIydXRmLTglMjIlM0UlM0MlMkZzY3JpcHQlM0U=[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 20) \nMost of us don’t mean to work in silos – but our calendars and inboxes quietly build them for us.  \nIn this episode\, Jessica and Erin guide you through a five-minute exercise to map your work relationships\, notice who’s missing\, and take one small step outside your silo this month. \nWe get busy\, go to the people we already know\, and stay in our lanes. In this episode of Practicing Connection\, hosts Jessica and Erin walk you through a simple\, five-minute exercise to map your work network and make the invisible visible. \nYou’ll list the people you’ve talked with about work over the past month\, then explore patterns across sectors\, roles\, geography\, and experience. Along the way\, you’ll surface quiet assumptions\, notice who’s overrepresented\, and identify whose voices are missing from your conversations. \nFinally\, Jessica and Erin invite you to choose just one gap to focus on this month—and to reach out for one conversation that takes you a step outside your silo. It’s a gentle\, practical way to start building a more intentional\, inclusive network that strengthens your work and your community. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]JESSICA BECKENDORF: [00:00:00] Think about the last five people you talked to or collaborated with on your work. \nYou’ve got them in mind? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Now ask yourself\, do they all work in the same sector as you\, the same organization\, same type of role? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: If the answer is yes\, you might be working in more of a silo than you know. \n– intro – \nWelcome to Practicing Connection. I’m Jessica. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: And I’m Erin. Today we’re giving you a short practice-based episode\, where we give you something you can actually do to strengthen connections in your work and in your community. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And today we’re talking about something that sounds kind of obvious\, but can actually be really hard: to see the shape of your network. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Ooh. I’m gonna be honest. I don’t even think about the shape of my network at all\, so I’m glad you’re bringing this forward. Because I don’t conceptualize it as a shape at all. So that’s [00:01:00] super fun. But I’m guessing that we’re talking also about the kinds of people who are in our network? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. It’s like\, is it lopsided in ways that we don’t want it to be lopsided? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. Sure. That makes sense. You know\, I think most of the time you don’t wake up and say to yourself\, “Well\, I’m only going to talk to people who already do exactly what I do\, and think exactly what I think.” But I imagine that happens pretty easily. It certainly has with me in the past\, where you get busy and it feels good to have somebody agree with you. And maybe you’re avoiding conflict if you’re a mid-westerner. \nAnd then you just kind of stay in your lane. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes we stay in our lanes because of that time issue\, like you were saying. And before you know it\, you are operating in a silo\, right. And being in Wisconsin\, I guess\, many of us operate in silos naturally. \nI’m just kidding. Terrible joke. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Nah\, we love farmers. Don’t fret. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: We do\, we do. But [00:02:00] seriously\, before you know it\, you’re operating in a silo\, right? You’re solving problems with the same few people. \nYou’re hearing the same perspectives\, and you might be missing entire groups of people who are working on the same issues that you are\, but they’re working on it from a different lens or a different experience\, or different part of the community or state. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay\, so today’s practice is about making the invisible visible. We’re going to walk you through a simple exercise to map your network and spot the gaps. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And then we’ll talk about what to do with that information\, because awareness without action is just\, I guess\, it’s just sort of interesting. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That’s nicer than I would’ve said. Sure. A very diplomatic action is good. All right. How do we get to the action? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Okay\, here’s what you’ll need: \nA piece of paper\, a pen\, and if you’re MacGyver\, maybe a rubber band and a nail. No\, I’m kidding. \n[00:03:00] You need a piece of paper\, a pen\, and about five minutes of uninterrupted time\, maybe 10 at the most. You could do this right now if you want to pause us along the way\, or you can do it later. It’s totally up to you. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: And full transparency\, this might feel a little uncomfortable. You might notice things that you wish were different. That’s okay. And that’s actually the point. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, we’re not here to judge your network\, and you shouldn’t either. Just be open to seeing it more clearly so that you can be more intentional about where you build your network in the future. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: All right\, let’s walk through it. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: All right. \nFirst step\, make a list of the people you’ve talked to about work in the last month. The people that you’ve talked to substantially\, right? Maybe you’ve even collaborated with them on something. \nIt’s not just meetings. Include things like emails\, phone calls\, coffee conversations\, text threads\, anyone that you’ve engaged with about your work. \nSo you’re making this list. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: [00:04:00] And you don’t need to overthink it. Just write down the names that come up for you\, and aim for at least 10 to 15 people if you can. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Once you’ve got your list\, move to step two. This is where you’re going to look at patterns. If it’s easier\, you could\, if you’re like me\, you could find a way to visually see these patterns by using color coding or symbols. But if you do that\, just make sure that you create a key\, so that you know what it all means later on. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Are you speaking from practice\, Jessica? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I am speaking from experience. Yes. But you don’t have to do it that way. You can really just consider our questions while you’re looking at your list. That’s totally fine too. And write down your observations\, on the side. \nSo we’ll start by posing some questions\, and I want you to just look at your list of names that you just came up with\, and just notice what comes up as we ask these questions. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. The first question\, “What sectors or fields are [00:05:00] represented?” Are they mostly nonprofits? Government education\, private sector\, faith-based\, military connected. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: – Not military connected. \nSo just look at your list and consider what’s overrepresented for your context. What’s overrepresented\, and what might be missing entirely. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: And the next question\, “What roles do these people have?” Are they mostly peers or people who do similar work to you\, or are there supervisors\, funders\, directors\, community members\, frontline staff\, people with direct experience of the issues you’re working on? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Again\, just notice\, who’s on the list? Who’s not on the list? Whatever matters for your context\, for the work you do\, who’s there\, and who should be there but isn’t. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Third question. “What about [00:06:00] geography?” Are you talking to people mostly in your town\, in your county\, in your state? Are there rural voices? Are there urban voices? Are there suburban voices? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Here’s a big one: “Are you talking to people most impacted by the issues you’re working on\, or are you mostly talking to other professionals about them?” What’s important for your role and for the people you serve? Just notice what you notice. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. Now take a breath and look at your list again. What stands out to you? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Maybe you’re really connected across sectors\, but everyone’s in leadership roles. Maybe you talk to lots of peers\, but no one from the communities you serve. Maybe your network is geographically narrow for the work you do. Where is your network rich and where might it be homogenous? \nThere’s no perfect network\, but there are intentional networks\, and that’s what we’re aiming for. \nSo now that you’ve mapped [00:07:00] it\, here are a few reflection questions for you to sit with a bit. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Question one. Where are my silos invisible to me? What perspectives am I not hearing from? Because I’m not in a relationship with people who hold them. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Question two\, if I’m trying to solve a problem or serve a community whose voice is missing from my network and how does that limit my effectiveness? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: On question three\, what’s the gap? I could start to close this month? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And I want to emphasize: one gap\, just one\, Not\, what are all the gaps that I could start to close this month? One gap. \nYou know\, that’s all we’re asking for. I really don’t want to overwhelm anyone who are trying to develop the perfect network\, because they notice that there’s a whole bunch of gaps in their network. \nThe perfect network doesn’t exist\, like I already said. So choose one gap that you noticed. Maybe it’s a sector you don’t know [00:08:00] well. Maybe it’s a type of role you don’t usually engage with. Maybe it’s a community you serve\, but you don’t have many relationships in. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: And then reach out to one person in that gap just to learn. You could say something like\, “I realized I don’t know much about the work that you do\, and I’d love to understand it better. Would you be up for that conversation sometime?” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And that’s it. I mean\, I’ve said this before\, that change happens one conversation at a time\, and I really do believe that. \nBut in this case\, in this context\, one conversation can mean one step outside your silo. And what I think is most exciting about this is that when you start to step out of your silo like this\, you’re not just expanding your network. You’re sowing the seeds of becoming a network weaver\, and making collaboration and resource sharing easier and more possible. \nIt’s not going to make your work harder\, but it does take these moments of stepping out. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, I can [00:09:00] see that. I think this also can help you model something to other people on your team\, or maybe in your circle that you collaborate with\, that it’s worth the effort to reach out and learn from each other. \nI don’t know how much we’ve touched on it here\, but part of the goal of helping you to notice where the gaps are in your network\, it’s not just to give you more work to do\, right? We’re not here trying to make your life harder. \nBut because genuinely hearing more perspectives helps you be better at your work\, and sometimes it makes your work easier\, and sometimes you can solve problems that you didn’t think could ever be solved when you start talking with new kinds of people about it. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. So their needs stay close to the top of your mind. Your needs stay close to the top of their mind. \nYou might meet someone else\, and you realize\, “Oh\, I know just the person to connect you with and you close that triangle.” \nAnd you introduce people\, and that’s sort of how all of this\, you know\, grows. And [00:10:00] it’s how our jobs can be made easier\, by spending a little bit of upfront time to get to know each other\, and find out where those resources are. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I love that. Okay. I know\, I know\, we’re trying to be very on track. And also if you have never had the high of connecting two people who don’t know each other and having them be a perfect fit\, and then them doing really cool stuff\, you’ve never worked for extension as a community educator! But like you just don’t know that professional high. \nIt is so satisfying. Whether it’s like connecting someone with a mentor\, or a project partner\, or helping somebody get a job\, it is so satisfying. This is what makes networking worth it. \nFor me\, I’m not a big small talk person necessarily. I love talking about weird stuff and deep stuff\, but small talk is sometimes not my favorite. \nAnd I can see how having the kind of small talk\, “What’s going on with you\,” conversations have led [00:11:00] to some of the most interesting deep conversations. But you’ve got to know where the deep waters are before you can dive into ’em. Right? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right. And you know what\, I do think in a future episode\, we should talk about the difference between network building and networking\, because those are two different things. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So\, yeah. We’ll handle that in a future episode. \nBut that’s it for today’s episode\, and we’d really love to hear from you\, about how this went. \nWhat did you notice when you mapped your network? What gaps maybe surprised you? You can reach us at practicingconnection@oneop.org. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: And you can click the share button in your podcast app to share this with a friend or a coworker. \nWe’ll be back next week. Until then\, keep practicing. \n[00:12:00]\nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/whos-missing-from-your-network/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260507T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260507T170000
DTSTAMP:20260608T155035Z
CREATED:20260507T100032Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260608T155035Z
UID:10001769-1778133600-1778173200@oneop.org
SUMMARY:How to Handle Workplace Expectations and Other Listener Q&A
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The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” 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use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTEzMjAxMCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTkxMzIwMTAtaG93LXRvLWhhbmRsZS13b3JrcGxhY2UtZXhwZWN0YXRpb25zLWFuZC1vdGhlci1saXN0ZW5lci1xLWEuanMlM0Zjb250YWluZXJfaWQlM0RidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTEzMjAxMCUyNnBsYXllciUzRHNtYWxsJTIyJTIwdHlwZSUzRCUyMnRleHQlMkZqYXZhc2NyaXB0JTIyJTIwY2hhcnNldCUzRCUyMnV0Zi04JTIyJTNFJTNDJTJGc2NyaXB0JTNF[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 19) \nThis month’s listener Q&A gives us three juicy areas to cover: struggling with frequent task switching\, dealing with burnout and unachievable workloads (and the expectations associated with this)\, and how our practices integrate with personal reflections. \nErin and Jessica respond to your questions with insight\, experience and resources\, to give you some great\, actionable steps in your daily life. \nEpisodes referenced in this episode: \n\nEveryday Practices for Organizational Resilience:\nhttps://oneop.org/learn/everyday-practices-for-organzational-resilience/\nTurning Conflict Into Collaboration:\nhttps://oneop.org/learn/turning-conflict-into-collaboration/\n\nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nSign up for our monthly newsletter: https://oneop.aweb.page/practicing-connection-newsletter\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: [00:00:00] Hi. Thank you for listening to the Practicing Connection Podcast. I’m Erin\, my co-host Jessica is here as well. Today we’re answering listener questions. \nHi Jessica. How are you feeling about today’s questions? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I mean\, this is the second time we’re doing this kind of episode\, and I was super stoked last time\, and I might be even more excited this time. I mean\, it’s really nice to\, I guess\, have more of an exchange\, right? Because podcasts are much more of a one-sided kind of thing. \nSo it’s nice to have at least a few moments like this where we can kind of have an exchange with people who listen. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. I love that. I think for me\, I also really love how it feels. Some of them almost feel like getting a case study\, where we’ve taught you a concept\, and then here’s a case study. “Here’s a real life example of using it\,” which is maybe a little bit easier to wrap your head around than our interviews\, which are combining a bunch of things altogether\, and this is a little more narrow [00:01:00] focused. \nSo all of that to say\, I am also very excited. Are you ready for our first question? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I am. Go for it. Do it. Floor is yours. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay\, question one. “I balance so many different responsibilities in my role\, and have found myself struggling more and more with transitioning between tasks. Do you have any practices to help? Please? I’m drowning!” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Oh\, no. Oh\, that one sounds very – well\, we better say this really quick and like\, let’s publish this episode before the one we just recorded so that this person has help right away! \nNo\, so I mean\, really if only this were a simple answer and simple to implement\, it’s just like you and I always say\, you do need to find what works for you\, right? And try different things. \nBut I’m happy to share some of the things that have worked for me. And\, you know\, one of the reasons why it’s also not a super simple answer is that we don’t always have as much control over our schedules as we’d like. [00:02:00]\nI’ve been doing a lot of reading\, or I’ve done a lot of reading in the past\, but of course\, I do a lot of reading just in general about productivity\, and a lot of the things that I’ve read\, give you this advice or that advice\, or they give you a whole system to follow. \nI have not once found an entire system out there that I could follow\, the way the person set it up for themselves\, that worked for me. And so I always tend to find like a little piece of this system here\, a little piece of that system there\, and I pick what works for me. I try things out if it works for me. \nSometimes I only keep it for a few months\, because that’s when I really desperately needed that particular tool. Sometimes I drop it for a while and I come back to it later. \nSo here’s some of the things that I do. I like to hold aside about an hour in the morning to plan and do things like read articles\, kind of easing into the day a little bit. And by reading articles\, I’m not talking about like In Style Magazine or whatever. I’m talking about\, you know\, articles that are related to my [00:03:00] job. \nSo\, I’ll spend that time planning\, reading articles\, blocking time on my calendar\, and then during this time\, I choose no more than three things that I need to get done that day. \nThe reality is\, and this is what I used to do\, I would list out every single thing that needed to be done. I would copy over things I didn’t get done the day before from a list\, and I’d write them out again the next day. And a lot of times there would be like 10\, 15\, 20\, 25 things on that list. It was overwhelming. \nAnd if I could get 25 things done in a day\, that would be great. But guess what? Tomorrow there’s gonna be 25 more\, because it just seems like it never. Really. Ends. \nBut sometimes I only have time to get one thing done. That reality\, when I really realized that\, that was a huge wake up call. It just depends on what that one thing is\, and how many meetings I have\, right? Because we know sometimes the one thing on your list could be a 3\, 4\, 5 hour [00:04:00] project\, or your one thing could be a 30 minute email you have to write. \nAnd then if you have a lot of meetings\, well maybe you only have an hour here to get things done between meetings an hour there\, half an hour there. Sometimes I could only get one thing done in a day. So I choose the three priorities during that kind of one hour block where I do a little bit of reading\, a little bit of time blocking\, et cetera. \nAnd I think I’ve talked about how I like to put them on a small post-it note that doesn’t have much real estate\, so that I can’t keep adding to the list. But once I choose those three priorities\, I block off time that day to do each. And that’s where I start to realize\, “Oh\, I don’t have time to do these three things today. One of them is gonna have to give and go on to tomorrow.” \nSometimes I have to drop an item because there’s not enough time between the meetings to get to it. So to me the biggest takeaway though\, from how I do this\, is that I don’t write out [00:05:00] everything that needs to be done in a big\, long list. This helps me focus and limit how many transitions I make. \nAnd that’s to me the key with the question that’s being asked about transitioning. And sometimes to be honest\, I’ll start out by only writing down one thing. Because I see my meeting load for the day\, I might add a second thing to it. If I actually get the one thing done\, I might add a second or third thing to it. \nBut I really have just gotten very realistic about what I can actually get done in a day. And it really does help me limit the number of transitions that I make. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I still have too many transitions\, I’ll be honest. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, it sounds like this is a thing you think about a lot\, because you immediately had a lot to say about this. I love that. \nI think that’s really useful to figure out ways to limit your transitions. One of the ways that I do that is I try to bundle things. So\, you know\, I think of my workload in different themed buckets\, and then I try to have like days or half of [00:06:00] days where I work on one particular bucket. \nAgain\, this is not always possible\, because sometimes I’m going from a meeting about one bucket to a meeting about another bucket\, and I just\, you know\, there’s no magic fix for that\, but some of the things that have helped me are scheduling buffer time in my calendar. \nSo I actually have a setting in Outlook where my default meeting length time is 50 minutes. Which I think is really helpful. It’s not always possible depending on the culture of where you’re at. But I think that’s really helpful. Or sometimes if I know I have a meeting right after\, I’ll say at the beginning of the meeting\, especially if it’s a one-on-one meeting\, this is a lot easier\, just say\, “I’m so sorry. I have a hard stop of this time. Does that work for you?” Kind of negotiate a little bit of like a five minute break. \nSome other things that have really helped me with transitions are physically moving my body when I’m moving between tasks. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I’ve sometimes gotten up and like [00:07:00] timed myself and gone on like a five minute walk around my office. It seems silly because I’m just doing a loop\, but – \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, literally. Sometimes it’s just\, ‘I’m gonna stand up and walk across the room to touch the other wall and then step back.’ It takes me 30 seconds\, but even just physically moving my body helps my brain unfocus and refocus\, which is great. \nSometimes when you’re in a work environment\, you don’t want to get up and have walks all the time\, because then there’s this appearance of you’re not working or something. \nYou know\, it can just be\, it can be messy. So other things that I’ll do is I’ll have water or a little snack that I can eat\, to transition between tasks and do some kind of care for my body\, help me be in my body\, and that helps my brain switch. \nI think the other thing that has been so helpful is to not start my day by reading emails or messages. So I [00:08:00] try to schedule like an hour buffer at the beginning of my day where I can sit and think about what are my priorities for the day? What’s important to me? What things do I need to think about? And really kind of figure out what’s going on in my work\, and bring myself back to focusing on work mode and not the rest of my life mode. \nAnd the thing that’s really helpful about that is if I start by reading my email\, I get decision fatigue immediately. So I like to try to make my decisions about my day before I get inundated with a billion messages. And that has been so helpful. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: This is also reminding me\, some of the things you’re saying\, remind me of this great activity you can do just sitting at your desk. \nIf you didn’t want to get up or\, or whatever\, and it’s the – have you heard of the 5\, 4\, 3\, 2 1 activity? \nOkay. So\, if you need sort of this little bit of a transition time\, because that’s another thing you can do is even if you can’t change how many transitions you have in a [00:09:00] day\, maybe you’ll be able to find like 30 seconds to a minute to do something like this\, just to kind of allow you a little bit of buffer time. \nAnd so\, it starts with five. You name five things that you can see around you. Chair. A plant. Your hands. Your laptop\, whatever. Just name five things that you can see. \nAnd then name four things that you can feel. So maybe it’s your feet on the floor\, maybe you’ve got a blanket in your lap. Like I often have maybe your smooth desktop\, your mouse\, whatever it is. Four things you can feel. \nAnd then name three things you can hear. So in my case\, it’s right now my laptop\, my voice because I’m talking\, you know\, and I have a space heater running right now\, and I can hear that. \nAnd then two things you can smell. So that one sometimes gets a little harder\, which is why it’s only two. \nAnd then one thing you can [00:10:00] taste. And so this might be\, you know\, lingering toothpaste or food from your maybe coffee breath\, whatever. It doesn’t matter. One thing you can taste\, and if you can’t taste anything\, then maybe just name your favorite smell or the favorite thing that you can see. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. \nThat’s a great transitional activity. Because I feel like it really pulls you out of wherever you are\, and it’s very like\, regulating activity. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Yeah. I really like it. It’s very calming too. Okay\, let’s go into the next question. I’m going to read this one. \n“It feels like I’m the only person on my team who cares about not giving ourselves burnout with unachievable workloads. We never say no to anything. Or even ask for an extension. How do I bring this up without sounding like I’m unwilling to take one for the team or without sounding like I’m uncooperative?” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Oh\, oh wow. Okay. This is a good question. [00:11:00] I am this person a lot. \nOkay\, some things that are really helpful are appealing to underlying shared values. So do you have a shared value for quality of work? Do you have a shared value for relationships? Do you have a shared value for sustainability? \nWe have episodes where we talk about collaborating with people you disagree with. And I think that practice may also work here\, because there is a disagreement happening here\, which is you have a different tolerance for chaos and unreasonable achievements. So\, think that’s a thing that you can do. \nYou know\, often in a situation\, the only thing we can control is ourselves. That doesn’t mean that there’s not a systemic issue happening\, it just means the thing you can control is you. So if you need an immediate thing to do\, that’s one. Figure out where you have a shared value and then [00:12:00] connect the unachievable workload\, unachievable expectations\, conversation with a value. \nAnd I find if you talk about it too\, in terms of long-term stability or you know\, if you can really frame it from a place of\, “We want our deliverables to come quickly\, but we also want them to be accurate\, or quality.” \nSometimes that conversation can really help especially if you’re working with community members or clients\, or if you’re producing this work for somebody else\, quality does matter. You know\, like you don’t want to break trust by doing so much that you’re dropping balls. I think that can be really helpful. \nWhen it’s a situation of I am not in charge of a team\, or there isn’t shared leadership on a team and I’m just being asked to do many\, many things\, I will ask the question\, “What would you like me to stop doing to work on this new priority? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm.[00:13:00]\nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Or\, “What task would you like me to do later so that I can do this one right now?” \nAnd sometimes just asking that blunt question helps pull people out of the\, like\, ‘we have to rush\, we have to do all the things\,’ conversation into\, ‘Oh\, what’s the priority order for these tasks? Is there anything that we can do later? Does everything have to happen right now? Or are there some things that are more flexible?’ \nAnd that’s kind of a sneaky way to start helping people rethink about\, oh\, not everything’s immediate. Often I see this for people who have been in crisis mode for a long time and they don’t know how to shift out of crisis mode into a slower pace. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Any other thoughts? I said a lot there. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I do. And I love that we’re taking slightly different approaches here because what came to my mind when I saw this question was something I’ve learned [00:14:00] with systems thinking\, and that’s maybe one way to do this without seeming like you’re unwilling\, to whatever\, be a team player\, which is totally not the case here\, right? You’re just trying to raise the yellow flags and say\, “Hey guys\, we gotta think about this a little bit\, right?” \nBut I would suggest really fleshing out with your team a definition. Like\, “Let’s really define what success looks like here. Let’s define what we’re talking about with this project.” \nSo what are all the things that would define success for this project? And what do we not mean? Right? What are we leaving on the table? That’s still important\, but it doesn’t need to be part of this right now. Like\, “What do we mean by success and what don’t we mean?” \nI want to be clear here that I’m not talking about what does success mean and what does unsuccess mean? What does not being successful mean? I’m talking about at a minimum\, how are we defining this project\, [00:15:00] and how are we defining what’s not included in this project\, so that you can get really clear about all of the pieces and parts that make it up. \nAnd people can make choices when they see\, “Oh\, we mean all of these things by success.” That means now\, when we take a look at what our capacity is\, which is\, you know\, one of the other things you would think about with systems thinking\, that means we have a lot more thinking to do. It just sort of slows everyone down a little bit without you seeming like you’re being uncooperative\, right? \nYou’re just saying\, “Hey\, we gotta define this.” That’s all you’re saying. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. This made me think of another episode that we recently released called Everyday Practices for Organizational Resilience. And this talks about how to do a bit of a debrief\, which means you’re going to have to be strategic. \nYou might not be able to launch this one whenever you want to\, but after you’ve completed something\, if it was high cost and you’re all tired\, you can do some of the [00:16:00] questions. There’s like an inventory that we walk you through\, or you walk us through to help you figure out\, “Oh\, what were the warning signs?” \nThis feels indirect\, but it’s directly getting people to pause and reflect\, and kind of see a bigger picture of\, why was this so hard? How can we make it easier for ourselves? \nAnd I think one of the things that will come up if you can kind of encourage these conversations is\, “Oh\, we haven’t ever defined what done means.” Or\, “We have different definitions of what done means\,” or\, “Some of us don’t know the amount of work it takes somebody else to pull this off.” \n“We gotta communicate more. We need more lead time.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: “We need more cross training.” Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Those kinds of conversations are really hard to have in the moment when you’re in the weeds. But if you have any sort of built in evaluation or reflection time\, you can bring some of these really strategic\, targeted questions\, and really help get at [00:17:00] the\, ‘how do we not burn ourselves out’ conversation. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. And no one will know that you’re actually panicking about the amount of work that they’re talking about trying to do. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Exactly. Okay. We should do our last question so this episode doesn’t get too long. \nQuestion three\, “Why are so many of your practices just different kinds of reflection? LOL.” \nI think the LOL means like\, they’re not mad about it. I’m not sure\, but that’s the question. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Okay\, so no\, this is great\, and I was very excited about this question\, and Erin\, you probably noticed that when this question first was added – because you choose the questions – that when the question was first added to this document\, I immediately started typing. \nAnd I would say that it’s because I have a very strong belief that knowing yourself and knowing how you show up\, like kind of out in the world and in your interactions with others\, is the foundation for interacting with and collaborating with others. \nAnd so\, I worked with some colleagues a while [00:18:00] back\, we’ve talked about on the podcast over the years. I don’t know that I’ve talked about it very much lately\, but we developed programming on collaborative work. \nSo developing collaborative relationships that center the kind of trust and connection needed to effectively work together to solve big\, hairy community issues. And a big focus of the research behind that program is that it all starts with knowing yourself. Often you’re getting to know yourself partially through reflection\, at least partially. \nAnd so it starts with reflection\, and it starts with knowing yourself\, and bringing what you know about yourself into your interactions with others. Then again\, reflecting on how those interactions helped you learn about an issue\, helped you learn about a perspective and even helped you learn about yourself\, right? What maybe changed about your own views or your own understanding of an issue or of a particular perspective? \nSo to me\, knowing yourself is [00:19:00] foundational work\, and a huge part of knowing yourself can happen through reflection. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. I’m also really glad someone asked this question. My answer did not come as fast as yours\, but it did help me realize kind of a bunch of connections. \nAnd one of them is this idea of curiosity\, and how I really love both science and poetry\, and I think both of them are lenses to view the world in which you’re coming from a place of curiosity and wanting to know more. \nAnd that’s kind of from a personal place\, and I think especially when we’re talking about inner critics\, I don’t know if we’ve talked about that\, but that idea of like\, if your inner mental monologue is pretty critical of yourself\, coming from a perspective of curiosity reflection can feel really scary if you’re used to criticizing yourself. \nAnd so a lot of our reflections are trained to teach us how to be curious about what happened\, rather than judgmental about what happened. [00:20:00] And I think that leaves space for being kinder to ourselves\, and being kind to ourselves really helps us stay healthy. \nLike it’s such a shift in terms\, and when you’re healthy\, it’s easier to do your job. It’s easier to show up in your relationships. That’s why I think it’s a priority\, even though it’s kind of personal and squishy. I do think it is a professional practice\, because you’re teaching yourself to be curious and kind to yourself. And when you’re curious and kind\, it’s way easier to start solving your problems if you’re immediately blaming yourself or being critical. \nIt’s challenging to process through all of that\, and then be creative about how you solve your problems. When you do reflection\, it’s this way to empower yourself to start seeing solutions and finding them yourself\, rather than feeling like you need some expert to tell you. Because you have lived your experience\, and so you probably know [00:21:00] what you need\, and the reflection helps you identify\, “What do I need? Who can I ask for it? What’s going on? What happened?” \nEspecially if you’re like the last question\, you’re in a place where you’re just doing stuff all the time. If you never have a moment to pause down reflection\, practice it as a practice can be such a helpful way to help you identify\, “Oh\, here’s where I know what too much was.” \nSo you can figure out your capacity limits. You can figure out all sorts of things to make your life easier by reflecting and being curious about your own experience and your own work and your own life. \nAlso I have been thinking about space a lot recently. There was\, you know\, NASA did some stuff in space recently and one of the practices that I have always loved about NASA is when something goes wrong\, they don’t immediately fire people\, because they don’t want people to be afraid to admit what the mistake was. Because they want to know what the mistakes are so they can avoid them in the future. \nAnd it [00:22:00] means that when you hear people talking about working on teams at NASA\, it’s this very collaborative experience and it’s very rigorous\, and the stakes are really high. But they don’t come from this place of being really judgemental and blaming each other. \nThey come from a place of curiosity\, and it’s had really impactful results on the quality of work and the amazing things that they can do. And even\, you know\, scientists pause and reflect. \nSo just throw it out there as\, reflection is actually a really cool tool that you can use to be curious and love the world\, even when you’re overwhelmed and tired. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I love it. And before you do our little outro here\, Erin\, I just want to say that as of the recording of this episode\, I got my third thing done for the day and it’s the end of the day. So I feel like I won. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Hey\, see\, this is what I mean by setting winning conditions. We talked about this a while ago. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Give yourself a sticker. I’m an adult who’s still motivated by sticker charts. I know that’s not everybody’s life\, [00:23:00] but I’m a little magpie. \nOkay. That’s it\, that’s the episode. Thank you for joining us. If you have a question or if you have additional thoughts about any of the questions we’ve asked here\, we would absolutely love to hear from you. \nYou can email us at practicingconnection@oneop.org. There’s a link in the show notes if you don’t know how to spell that. We want to hear from you. We see and respond to every message\, and we promise not to share your question without asking permission and erasing identifying details. \nWe’ll be back next week. Until then\, keep practicing. [00:24:00]\n  \nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/how-to-handle-workplace-expectations/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260430T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260430T170000
DTSTAMP:20260505T220516Z
CREATED:20260430T100025Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260505T220516Z
UID:10001763-1777528800-1777568400@oneop.org
SUMMARY:What the Room is Telling You: How to Read the Room
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTA3NzcyNiUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTkwNzc3MjYtd2hhdC10aGUtcm9vbS1pcy10ZWxsaW5nLXlvdS1ob3ctdG8tcmVhZC10aGUtcm9vbS5qcyUzRmNvbnRhaW5lcl9pZCUzRGJ1enpzcHJvdXQtcGxheWVyLTE5MDc3NzI2JTI2cGxheWVyJTNEc21hbGwlMjIlMjB0eXBlJTNEJTIydGV4dCUyRmphdmFzY3JpcHQlMjIlMjBjaGFyc2V0JTNEJTIydXRmLTglMjIlM0UlM0MlMkZzY3JpcHQlM0U=[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 18) \nYou’ve walked into a meeting and felt it immediately – something’s off. The energy is flat\, or there’s a tension nobody’s naming.  \nWhat do you do with that?  \nIn this practicast\, we share a simple\, repeatable practice for reading the emotional temperature of any room. \nReading the Room is a short practice in social awareness — one of the core skills of emotional intelligence. \nIn this practicast\, we walk through three steps for tuning into the emotional temperature of a group before and during meetings: the early arrival observation\, the 3-person scan\, and the traffic light check. \nPerfect for service providers\, coalition leaders\, nonprofit staff\, and anyone who facilitates groups. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Practicing Connection Podcast. I’m Erin. Today’s Practicast is about a skill that sounds simple\, but takes real intention reading the room. And my co-host\, Jessica Beckendorf\, will be sharing the practice with us. Hi Jessica. How are you? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Hi\, Erin. I’m doing pretty good\, thanks. I’ve actually been thinking a lot about this topic lately. I feel like\, it’s spring as we’re recording this\, and I feel like spring every single year is like the time of year for facilitated discussions\, because I have facilitated several workshops over the past few months\, so I’m really excited to share about this idea of reading the room and what that means. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I am excited too. It’s one of those skills that I think people assume is something you either have or don’t have\, just like intuition\, but I’m guessing there’s more to it than that. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Exactly. I think\, whether we’re walking into a team meeting or we’re [00:01:00] going into a coalition meeting\, where it’s like a bunch of people who aren’t on our team\, or whether we’re facilitating our group\, like I have been all Spring long\, or if we’re even just sitting across from a colleague\, there’s always a lot more happening than what’s being said out loud. The emotional temperature of a room can influence everything. \nThings like what gets decided\, what goes unspoken and whether people feel safe enough to show up fully. And I really like this practice because it gives you a repeatable way to tune in to the temperature of a room before you jump into whatever business it is you need to do. \nAnd this is great for\, look\, if you’re someone who thinks of yourself like your abilities in this area are not as good\, or whether you’re someone who you’re like\, “I feel like I can read the room intuitively\, and it’s not a big deal\,” I think that this just gives you a way to be very conscious about reading the room. \nSo it can help either group of people\, right? Whether you think you’re good at it or not. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That’s awesome to hear. I love that\, [00:02:00] because I’ve noticed for me\, and everybody’s a little different\, but for me\, I can either intentionally read the room or I can unintentionally read the room without realizing. \nAnd then maybe not show up how I want to\, or maybe exclude people. Because I don’t realize\, I’m only reading off the really intense people. So I’m really excited because it sounds like you’re putting together a structure that we can use to engage in paying attention\, and that gets me excited. Tell me more. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, so I don’t have a specific name for this activity because to me it’s just\, “Read the room\,” which sounds actually like you’re insulting someone\, right? “Read the room people.” \nBut it’s really just a way of practicing. So like we’ve been saying\, not everyone is skilled at reading other people. Or maybe you just think of yourself as not being skilled in that way. But we all have some form of intuition when it comes to reading other people. For some people\, it’s maybe more developed than others. But [00:03:00] the thing is\, even if you think of yourself as skilled or not skilled at reading\, other people reading an entire room is different. \nThe skill is part of what emotional intelligence researchers call ”Social awareness.” So the ability to notice what others are feeling\, even when they don’t say it\, even when they’re not saying what they’re feeling\, it’s one of the most important skills for anyone doing collaborative work. Because groups carry emotions that no single person owns. \nAnd in fact\, the emotions can resonate and ricochet across the room\, and because of that resonance they amplify. So basically we can put little air quotes around this word. We can sort of “catch” feelings. And if you can read those emotions\, you can respond to what’s actually happening\, not just what’s on the agenda. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. That’s so interesting. I’m glad you used the idea of catching and resonating\, and I’ve certainly felt that in meetings where you walk into a room and you’re like\, [00:04:00] “Ooh\, something’s happened in here.” I feel it can also be potentially a positive experience. I very recently went to see Project Hail Mary in the movie theaters\, and I was so glad that it was a movie I chose to see in the theater because it was this really collective experience where all these people were feeling things with me\, and the movie was better\, which is not always how it is. Sometimes you go and you watch something with other people and they ruin it for you. But this was just such an intense thing\, where I was like really resonating with the whole room. \nIt really felt like we experienced something together\, even though I did not talk to a single other person in the room besides my husband\, who I went to this movie with. And so you are saying that shows up in all kinds of spaces\, not just the movie theater\, and that’s something we can actually be tuned into and read nuance into. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. And there’s actually one really important nuance\, and that is that we don’t all read emotional cues the same way. And we don’t all [00:05:00] get read the same way by others either. As you build the skill\, it’s really worth asking yourself\, “Whose signals am I most practiced at noticing\, and who might I be overlooking or misreading?” \nBecause reading the room well means not so much hyper focusing as it means widening your lens\, like being able to take in the environment and the mood. It’s a really important nuance to consider\, but I think just getting started practicing is a good place to start. \nAnd then as you go along\, you can be like\, “Okay\, now whose signals am I most practiced at noticing? Who am I possibly overlooking or misreading?” And look\, I have often misread\, for example\, men that are maybe a little older than me\, a little bit wrong. I’ve noticed some of my own patterns that way. \nAnd because I notice those patterns I have been able to adjust my thinking around all of it. And does it mean I’m better at reading them? [00:06:00] Yeah\, it certainly means I’m better at reading it. Or what’s really happened in my case is I’m better at asking questions at the right time\, right? I notice when I’m starting to feel that little bit of tension\, and I ask questions\, and so it helps me to widen my lens and to not misread the person who is who I’m talking to too. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. That is a really helpful context. I think you’ve got me really excited for learning this skill specifically\, because it sounds like it’s also a really useful tool if you’re someone who has to switch contexts. You know\, if you’re moving between different organizations with maybe different levels of formality or different levels of decisions get made. \nSometimes people forget that not everybody does things the way that they do\, and they don’t communicate what they’re doing. So this is potentially a way to figure it out without having to make a big mistake publicly\, and then have someone say\, “Oh no\, we don’t do that here.” [00:07:00] Right\, which is a thing I have survived many times. \nIt’s a very survivable thing\, but it’s never comfortable. So this is also okay. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: It’s really great for cross-sector collaborations. It’s a really great skill to build. If you’re going to be going into rooms where everyone in that room is coming from a different context\, a different organization\, a different way of doing things. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. Okay. You’ve got me really excited. We could chat all day\, but let’s dive into it. Walk us through this. How do you do it? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Okay\, so the first step\, and we’re going to be talking about this in the context of a meeting\, because it is a very familiar work context to use this in. But you can adapt to this to other types of things as well. \nThe first step is to arrive a little early and observe\, and I’m talking about just building in 60 seconds. I don’t think you need to go 20 minutes early and stare at everybody as they’re walking in the door\, stare them down\, [00:08:00] observe them. No\, I’m talking just 60 seconds. Arrive a little early and observe. \nThis is before you start talking\, checking your phone or setting up. Just notice. Who’s in the room? Where are people sitting? Are they clustered together or are they spread apart? Are there quiet side conversations happening? Is the energy light or is it flat? \nThis is your baseline information. You’re taking the temperature before the conversation starts. \nSo step two then is once the meeting begins\, you’re going to pick three people to scan. Ideally\, this will be someone you know well\, someone you don’t know well\, and someone who tends to be quiet. Now\, maybe this is your first meeting with the group. Just pick a couple people you don’t know well\, or a couple people who maybe as you were doing that kind of initial step one where you arrived a little early\, you noticed one person was quiet and one person wasn’t. [00:09:00] So you could just pick those two. Doesn’t have to be three people. \nSo what you’re going to watch for during the meeting is things like their posture\, are they leaning in? Are they pulling back? What are their facial expressions? Do they look a little confused\, skeptical\, or disengaged? Even if they aren’t saying anything. \nAnd keep in mind that you might be misinterpreting their facial expressions. You can still make note of what you think they are\, but please\, always remember that you may be wrong. This is just for you to get a sense\, and it’s your best possible sense of what’s going on. \nAnd then the third thing is to take a look at their participation patterns. Are they unusually quiet\, or are they talking more than usual? And again\, if this is your first time in the meeting\, you’re going to just do your best to notice those participation patterns. Maybe you don’t know if they’re usually quiet or talking more than usual\, but you could say\, “Oh\, this person was quiet\, and this person was talking a lot.” You [00:10:00] could just make note of that. \nSo you’re going to look for those three people. You’re going to look at posture\, facial expressions\, and participation patterns. All you’re doing is\, noticing three people should give you just enough data without feeling overwhelmed. And then this is going to give you a clue as to how things are going along the way\, right? \nSo you’ll keep observing those three people along the way in the meeting. And finally\, this is the last step\, step three is\, this is where you widen the awareness to the entire group. I’m calling it a green\, yellow\, red traffic light check\, because I am not very inventive. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I think it’s also good teaching to use accessible frameworks\, and a lot of people have experience with traffic lights\, so that’s a pretty easy way to shift through information. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: We couldn’t do this with a roundabout\, right?! We couldn’t describe it the same way with a roundabout. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: For people who aren’t from Wisconsin\, a roundabout is also known as a traffic circle in other parts of the country. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes. Okay. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I had gotten into lots of [00:11:00] fights about this when we moved to Wisconsin. I was like\, what is that? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So step three builds on step two by asking you to be in tune with the whole group\, not just those three people. So the best time to practice this step is after something important is shared\, an idea\, a decision. A question. And so you’re going to use your scanning skills from step two to take just two seconds. \nAnd I know that doesn’t sound like enough time to read an entire room\, but the more you practice this\, two seconds is going to feel like the exact perfect amount of time. \nSo take two seconds to scan the whole group. If you’re leading the group\, just make sure to take a pause. No one’s going to notice a two second pause. No one’s going to notice a five second pause. Just take a pause if it helps\, take a drink of your coffee or your water or something in that pause\, so it’ll just give it a little more time. They won’t know that you’re reading the room. \nSo then what you’re going to do is ask yourself in those [00:12:00] two seconds\, “Does the group feel like they’re green\, yellow\, or red?” Green is that people seem engaged\, the energy is flowing. This is really a clue that you should just keep going. \nYellow\, something seems like it shifted. Maybe the energy dipped a little bit. Maybe someone’s expression changed. This is a clue to you that you should slow down. Maybe offer to take a break\, if you’re the one leading the meeting\, or maybe if you’re not leading the meeting asking\, “Hey\, could we have a five minute break or two minute break?” \nThe other thing you could do instead of taking a break is ask a question. “What’s landing for you right now? Is there anything that we’d like to name that’s happening in the room right now? What’s coming to mind for everyone right now?” \nAnd then red: probably\, obviously is where maybe the tension is quite visible. Someone maybe looks upset. The group seems a little bit fractured. A conversation has stalled. \nThis is the moment to pause\, to [00:13:00] listen\, to name what’s happening\, and when I say name what’s happening\, I would be really careful about that. Because when you name what’s happening on your own\, you’re coming at it from your perspective. And you may not be correct about the perspectives in the room but you might say\, “I’m reading that there’s some tension in the room. Am I correct?” \nYou could check in with everyone: “Am I correct that there’s some tension here?” And if so\, you could let the people in the room name it\, right? You could let them acknowledge that there’s some tension and name it. \nI want to just say that how you approach the red part depends on what the issue seems to be. I’ll give you an example. I was facilitating a big group\, multi-county initiative that these folks were trying to really make a difference in big ways across their counties. The meeting started out great\, right? So I\, we were green light at first. The meeting started out great. The energy was great. \nAnd then\, somewhere in the middle\, something shifted. We went into yellow. [00:14:00] Something shifted. I couldn’t put my finger on it. They were still engaged\, they were still going through the activities that I had brought for them to think through their strategic plan. But then the energy dipped. \nThe conversation then started to stall. That’s when we had moved into red territory. So they’re at small group tables. They started out maybe just with a little bit lower energy. So they were in the yellow zone\, but at their small group tables\, this is when the rubber’s supposed to meet the road in this particular activity. They were going to be coming up with action steps and all of that\, and the conversation stalled. \nIt got quiet in the room\, and I had been noticing something happening over the course of the day. We only had the one day to get these ideas down and on paper. And so\, I made the choice of asking\, “Okay\, so here’s what I’m noticing. I’m noticing that there’s some tension.” \nI checked in with them\, is there tension in this room? And they [00:15:00] all admitted to it. And I said\, “Can we talk about it? Is this something you feel comfortable talking about?” And they said yes. And it turns out that there was a difference in opinion about how they should proceed. About half the group was like full steam ahead\, and the other half of the group was like\, we need to consider the management of what we’re doing because. If we do full steam ahead\, we’re going to be burnt out real quick. \nAnd we were able to talk through that and get some things down on paper before the end of the day. Because that was the only day we had to work on it. So we were able to come to some conclusions now. It didn’t solve all their problems\, but it did very publicly name what was happening in that group so that they could begin the conversations of solving or resolving\, I’m gonna say in this case\, resolving their issues. \nSo I let the people in the room name it. I named what I was noticing about the [00:16:00] tension\, and I let them name what the tension was\, and I checked in\, “Are you guys comfortable talking about this\, or should we talk separately?” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. Okay. I’m curious\, do you use this when you’re not facilitating the room? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Like when you and I are in conversation\, is that what you’re asking\, Erin?! \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: No\, I just think that not everybody who listens to our podcast maybe facilitates big groups of people. Is it still useful when you’re just like\, Joe Schmo\, just a person in a meeting? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, I mean I think you could even use this with one other person\, although the activity is about reading the room more than it is about reading one other person. Although certainly you could use step two with reading people’s posture\, their facial expressions and their participation patterns when you’re doing one-on-one. \nBut yeah\, I absolutely think you could use this in any kind of a group setting\, with your friends\, right? You could use it in a friend setting if you want to. You could use it with [00:17:00] family\, and also I would always caution people to be careful. Be careful facilitating your family. There’s too much history sometimes\, \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. Okay. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And certainly with your team\, even if your team is just three people or whatever\, you could certainly use this with the team as well. \nSo really that two second pause\, that step three is critical to the whole practice. It’s where reading the whole room actually happens\, versus honing in on a few people\, to check in on how things are going as you go along. \nSo yeah\, that’s the practice. Arrive and observe. First do a little bit of an individual\, three person scan. And use green\, yellow\, red as a way of reading the whole room before you move on\, especially after you drop something big. You know\, an idea\, if you’re leading the meeting and you dropped an idea that the leadership of the organization wants to move forward with\, and nobody had been consulted ahead of [00:18:00] time\, that’s a moment to pause and just do the scan right. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. Well\, thank you for leading us through that. It sounds very useful. One thing that was coming to mind for me is a couple of weeks ago we had an episode about practicing discomfort by expanding your circles. It struck me as you were explaining this\, that this might also be a practice you could use as you are experiencing a new space. \nAnd I would perhaps say if you were using it in that space\, maybe you won’t go to the point where you’re acknowledging the tension in the room and trying to do any kind of facilitation\, but it may be a really good way to notice and read the room in a space that you’re unfamiliar with\, and practice learning how maybe there are different ways that people express things. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That’s a great idea. Green\, yellow and looking at the whole room and just practicing naming green\, yellow\, red too\, right? Without\, maybe in that particular [00:19:00] case\, it’s not your responsibility to do anything about it. \nAlso\, we can always lead from where we are. And so if we’re in yellow\, for example\, if it’s a participatory meeting\, you can ask a question too. If you feel like it’s your place or if you’re feeling it. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, I am somewhat of a notorious question asker\, so definitely if I had been in the room and we got into small groups and it got quiet and nobody was saying anything\, I probably wouldn’t have talked to the whole room\, but I would’ve asked my table and said\, “Wow\, it seems like none of us wanna talk? What’s going on?” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yep. You know what? I did initially go to a couple of individual tables and said\, “Am I right that there’s some tension?” I didn’t ask him what it was\, I just said\, “Am I right\, before I address the whole room?” \nBut yes\, I’m certain that would happen. So anyway\, reading the room is about\, and we talk about this all the time\, right\, and we always say that every single Practicast we have is one way of practicing something. [00:20:00] So in this case\, reading the room is about staying aware and curious. Those are two things we always talk about about: what the people around you are actually experiencing. \nAnd when you do that well\, you can build trust\, you can deepen collaboration and you can help people feel seen. That’s something that a lot of people very much enjoy. They like to feel seen and heard\, so this is one way of doing that too. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Awesome. Thank you. \nThat’s it for this episode. Thank you all for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode\, please click the share button in whatever podcast app you’re using to share it with a friend. \nWe’ll be back next week with a new episode. Until then\, keep practicing. \n[00:21:00]\nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/how-to-read-the-room/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
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BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260423T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260423T170000
DTSTAMP:20260529T140421Z
CREATED:20260523T100031Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260529T140421Z
UID:10001762-1776924000-1776963600@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Burnout and Resilience in Service Providers
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTA1NDUzMCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTkwNTQ1MzAtYnVybm91dC1hbmQtcmVzaWxpZW5jZS1pbi1zZXJ2aWNlLXByb3ZpZGVycy5qcyUzRmNvbnRhaW5lcl9pZCUzRGJ1enpzcHJvdXQtcGxheWVyLTE5MDU0NTMwJTI2cGxheWVyJTNEc21hbGwlMjIlMjB0eXBlJTNEJTIydGV4dCUyRmphdmFzY3JpcHQlMjIlMjBjaGFyc2V0JTNEJTIydXRmLTglMjIlM0UlM0MlMkZzY3JpcHQlM0U=[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 17) \nWhat if the key to resilience is practicing together? \nThis episode from the Practicing Connection archives features a conversation about burnout and resilience with guests Dr. Charles (Chip) Benight and Nicole Weis from the Lyda Hill Institute for Human Resilience at the University of Colorado in Colorado Springs. \nTheir research on human resilience paves the way for therapies that address the needs of trauma survivors\, including service providers and others who may suffer secondary trauma. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nGreater Resilience Information Toolkit: https://grit.uccs.edu/ \nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/ \nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org \n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]Erin Carlson Rivera: Welcome to Practicing Connection! I’m Erin\, and today we are diving into our archive to discuss burnout and resilience. This our first episode in our From the Archive series\, where we are updating and releasing previously created content that is still relevant and current. Today we’re returning to an interview Jessica and Bob did with Dr. Charles Benight and Nicole Weis on their work with trauma survivors. \nI am excited to share this interview! Here’s what we love about it: \n\nDr. Charles Benight and Nichole Weis bring both research and years of experience to their work. Their methods for how to empower individuals and communities to build mental health resilience are both tested and nuanced.\nResilience as something to be practiced rather than an innate skill\nConnections between secondary trauma and burnout\n\nWithout further ado\, please enjoy this archive episode! \n– break – \nBob Bertsch: I’m Bob Bertsch. \nJessica Beckendorf: I’m Jessica Beckendorf. In this episode\, we’ll be talking about burnout and resilience with our guests\, Dr. Charles Benight and Nicole Weis from the Lyda Hill Institute for Human Resilience at the University of Colorado and Colorado Springs. The institute’s research on human resilience paves the way for therapies that address the needs of trauma survivors. Their healing division works with a variety of clients\, ranging from veterans and first responders to students and community members with a focus on helping individuals and families heal from trauma. Their community training and empowerment division empowers individuals\, communities\, and organizations with the tools needed to build mental health resiliency. \nBob: Dr. Charles Chip Benight is Executive Director of the Lyda Hill Institute for Human Resilience. He’s a professor of psychology\, researcher\, psychologist\, and educator who throughout his career has focused on the intersection of trauma and human resilience. Nicole Weis is the Director of Community Training and Empowerment for the Lyda Hill Institute for Human Human Resilience. She’s a licensed professional counselor and licensed addiction counselor. In her role at the institute\, Nicole provides peer support training to several organizations in Colorado\, teaches the trauma training for professionals online program\, manages the GRIT coaching program\, and liaisons with the 4th Judicial Veterans Trauma Court. Chip and Nicole\, thank you so much for joining us. Welcome to the Practicing Connection Podcast. \nNicole Weis: Thank you for having us. \nCharles Benight: Yes\, I’m very excited to be here. Thanks\, Bob. \nBob: So I’d like to start with getting a sense of what brought you guys to this work. Chip\, can you tell us how you got interested in human resilience? \nCharles: Sure. I think really it started way back when I was moving to Miami for my postdoctoral fellowship way back in 1992. I happened to get there three days before Hurricane Andrew hit. My wife was five months pregnant. I think that whole experience of having to relocate and establish social connections and a new job and all of that and a new baby and so forth\, was really the foundation of moving from- I was studying stress in the heart before that and how heart disease occurs and how people can die from sudden cardiac arrest and emotional factors related to that. I think that whole experience with the hurricane shifted my focus on how people overcome severe adversity like a hurricane or almost anything that’s a severe trauma or adversity. \nBob: It’s interesting you mentioned having to reconnect with community when you had a baby and your family trying to reconnect. It’s something that our audience\, that includes military family service providers is very familiar with because with relocation\, permanent change of station\, our military families are experiencing that all of the time\, frequently\, much more frequently than many of us are experiencing that. You see that as really important to resilience\, that connection to community and network? \nCharles: Absolutely. I think the military is an interesting world for that because obviously\, they have their own internal connections as military members and connecting to other military providers and service members and so forth. I think that that’s been pretty instrumental for them. At the same time\, their interconnections to communities shifts and changes quite frequently when they have to move. \nI think that’s difficult on families specifically and the kids and adapting and obviously with deployments and so forth\, it becomes a very challenging process. I think community and something Nicole and I have spent a lot of time thinking about with our GRIT program\, which we can talk more about and other programming that we do\, is that that interconnection between social network\, social fabric in our lives is really instrumental in being resilient and being able to cope effectively. \nBob: Nicole\, can you share a little bit of what brought you to this topic of resilience? \nNicole: Yes\, absolutely. My interest really started with interest in trauma. I grew up in a complicated family. We went through a lot of different things growing up. What really sparked it was my brother joined the United States Air Force right after 9/11 and witnessed a lot of horrific\, really difficult things\, came home\, and really struggled with it. Watching his journey really prompted me to go into psychology. Then I continued on. I came to the University of Colorado Colorado Springs and started working with Dr. Benight Chip in his lab understanding trauma more in-depth\, continued to go through some complicated things in my life. \n2017\, two weeks before my wedding day\, I woke up to a fire two feet away from me. I lost most of my house\, lost a lot of things\, and really learned the journey of resilience from that event. It coincidingly was really hearing from Chip about this dream of the institute and what resilience could really mean for everybody. That really prompted me on this road. I got to work at a crisis center for a while and worked with individuals who were really struggling with thoughts of suicide\, thoughts of harming themselves\, really significant crisis moments. \nI got to see not only how do you help somebody\, but how do you walk a journey with somebody and growing and adapting through some of those significant life events. My journey’s just been rolling with that ever since and just watching really remarkable people grow and adapt in really hard experiences. I’m still here 10 years later and I really love what we do and being able to just see those sparks in people as they get through\, work through what they’ve been going through. \nJessica: Oh\, thank you both so much for sharing that. How do we know when we are approaching or experiencing burnout? \nNicole: In a lot of my trainings\, I have this GIF or this little video that I show that it’s this girl that’s just crawling across the screen. I always say\, “If you’ve ever wondered if you’ve been burned out\, do you ever relate to this picture of just crawling across the floor?” I think burnout can really feel like that of\, “I’m here and I’m doing a job that I am invested in and I love\, and I’m exhausted. How do I get out of bed? How do I be here? How do I perform the way I want to perform while I’m exhausted?” \nTo me\, that’s the image of burnout that comes out. I think burnout is especially relevant for the helping professions\, for the people who constantly put other people in front of them. Burnout then feels really complicated because again\, “How do I do this job that I love\, that I really want to be there and help people\, and at the same time\, I am broken right now?” \nCharles: I do think the fundamental feeling of exhaustion is pretty paramount for burnout. Combined with that sense of the loss of love for whatever it is you’re focused on\, whether it’s your work\, whether it’s your family\, that whole process can affect all of our lives\, not just our work environment. I think Nicole was right\, that exhaustion and not feeling efficacious anymore in terms of what we’re trying to do. \nJessica: When you’re noticing that\, it feels like\, “I’ve been there before.” To me\, “It feels like you’re already in the middle of it.” It isn’t until you notice that you’re in the middle of it. This has been my experience that you realize\, “Oh\, my gosh\, I’m burned out.” It sounds like from your descriptions\, that that’s the reality of it that you might not realize it until you’re in the middle of it. Is that right? \nNicole: Yes. I think as a society\, we’re pretty good at being reactive to things. I know Chip can talk a lot about this with our medicalized model of trauma and mental health conditions. We’re good at being reactive. We’re good at saying\, “Oh\, there’s been a problem\, now I need to go find a solution.” What we’re not as great with is being really proactive and self-aware and noticing when there’s the first red flags\, the signs that something’s different\, something’s changed. \nOne of the things that we really emphasize with our institute is that proactive approach and just allowing yourself to be curious\, “What is different about myself today?” I think if we spent the time to be a little extra self-aware without the stigma\, without all of the preconceptions of what might it mean for us to be burned out\, if we just acknowledge that this is a human experience\, then I think there’s so many things we can do to prevent the really impact of burnout\, to prevent some of the impact of stress. That piece\, I think is something that goes against the norm a little bit. I’ll let Chip add to that. \nCharles: We’ve had fun\, Nicole and I\, really talking through these cycles of how people go from feeling pretty good in their lives into this burnout phase. We’ve talked about prevention planning for organizations\, for individuals\, and talked about presilience as a concept that if we can get in front of things\, we can then build the shell\, if you will\, or armament around ourselves that can help us manage these changing environmental conditions. I think the pandemic\, we needed something to shine a light on burnout. The pandemic did that for a lot of people and a lot of organizations. I think that’s a key for us to look at is\, what did that teach us versus\, thank God\, the pandemic’s over which it’s really not\, but people say that\, and then we just move on in our lives. I think there’s a lot to learn from that for us around Burnout. \nJessica: When you are at the point where you’re crawling across the floor\, or you find that you’re having a hard time doing things that you love serving people that you love to serve\, what should we do when we find that we’re crawling across the floor like that [chuckles]? \nNicole: Every few months\, every year\, I think Chip and I play with a theme of human experience. Lately\, the one I’ve been really thinking about is you have permission to be human. It feels really relevant for a lot of helping profession because again\, we tend to put ourselves second or last. Sometimes it’s hard to acknowledge the impact\, stress and trauma and secondary trauma has on us. We do a lot of work with attorneys and court reporters\, health care workers\, some of these helping professions. For them to just admit that what they hear is hard\, that alone can sometimes feel like a barrier. \nI think having this idea that if you hear something that’s hard to hold on to\, if you hear what somebody else has been through and somebody else’s tragedy\, you’re human\, and if it impacts you\, you get to say that was hard\, I can take a step back\, and I can take a moment to absorb and lean on somebody else\, power of peer\, I’m sure we’ll talk about. To me\, that’s what you do. You give yourself permission to say it was hard\, and I’m human\, and I get to feel that. It doesn’t make me any less amazing at my job. \nBob: Chip\, does that secondary trauma that service providers and helping professionals experience\, does that impact their risk of burnout? \nChip: It’s a very interesting question. Back in about 2008 to 2012\, somewhere in that range\, we did a major project called Support Net with the Army across the world. In that project\, we were able to sample service providers\, behavioral health providers across all of the entire globe that were related to the US Army. We learned a lot and we did publish quite a few papers from that project. \nOne of the things that we learned was that burnout itself actually can create a risk for secondary trauma. It makes sense that you’ve got this shell that when you’re working hard\, listening to a lot of difficult issues from people and really putting yourself out there as a helping professional\, that if you’ve become burned out\, that information can seep through more. What we see is that actually\, if you get more severe burnout\, you actually have an increased risk for secondary trauma symptoms. That’s really important for us to think about as providers\, because often I don’t think people put those two things together and understand how they would interact\, but that’s what our studies show. \nI think it’s important for the discussion\, as we were just talking about that\, self-care and other care in the sense of reaching out and getting support from others\, as Nicole was describing the power of peer\, is pretty crucial. I think a lot of helping professionals assume that they’re good\, they can handle it\, they’re used to taking care of other people\, but they sometimes don’t prioritize themselves very well. That’s a pretty crucial piece here or else\, you can find yourself on that cascade of\, I’m getting burned out\, I just noticed it\, but I’m also having dreams about my clients and the horrific things that somebody maybe has gone through\, and that stuff starts really creeping in more. \nNicole: On the topic of self-care\, again\, one of the things we’ve been really thinking about lately is self-care can sometimes have this fluffy feeling. Sometimes when people say\, “Oh\, you just need self-care\,” that actually that feels like\, oh\, that’s even more frustrating because now you’re saying I need to add one more thing on to my plate or whatever that might feel\, it feels fluffy. Especially when talking about health care workers\, one of the things we really talked about is self-care is self-preservation\, that you really have to be able to take care of yourself even in really basic needs. \nGo talk to a health care worker and ask during your shift\, how much do you go to the bathroom? When do you stop and eat besides a cube of cheese? The answers are\, oh\, I go 8\, 9\, 10 hours. Self-care is the idea of you get to stop and go to the bathroom\, you get to stop and eat\, you get to stop and take care of yourself. When we do that\, it helps us preserve who we are\, again\, why you got into this field. One of the challenges we’ve been putting out in a lot of our trainings is to think about it as a way to preserve who you are when you get to stop and take care of yourself\, and that it’s a pocket of time. \nThat self-care doesn’t have to be\, oh\, I have to take a day off\, or I have to go on a vacation\, or I have to do whatever. It’s a pocket of time. It’s a minute of meditation. It’s choosing to go for a walk during your meeting. It’s things like that\, that really start to add up. \nJessica: You mentioned the pockets of time\, and these are some of the ways that service providers can build a little bit of time for themselves. You also mentioned that sometimes if you tell people\, “You need to just do some self-care moments.” Even when it’s little pockets of time\, does that start to feel like they have to add these things to their list to check off\, or are there strategies to help people build that in without making it feel like another thing that they’re supposed to do? \nNicole: One of the things we talk about is we tend to be really good at putting all of these things on our to-do list\, like I have to attend this meeting\, and then I have to pay this bill and then I have to work on this report. We have a to-do list. What we tend not to do is put the self-care pieces on my to-do list\, like I should eat lunch today\, make sure I cross that off. I can listen to this podcast today\, cross that off. It’s less but it’s one more thing and more of it’s part of your day. Just as important as seeing these clients is me taking care of myself. Those get to live on equal planes\, versus when it feels more important than the other. \nJessica: Yes\, okay. I love that. That makes a lot of sense. Given the factors leading to burnout\, what are some other things that service providers can do to build their resilience up? \nNicole: I’m going to talk about power of peer here. I think\, really being able to lean on one another and to share what’s been going on\, I mentioned one of the things I’m so proud about with our own institute is how much care and respect and longevity we have with each other\, and how much respect for work-life experiences we have. One of the things\, the trends that we’ve seen in recent years\, and we talk about this in our GRIT Program\, is we have a tendency of what I call a drive-by check in\, that maybe I come in and it’s Monday morning\, and I see Chip walking in too and I say\, “Chip\, how’s it going?” Before Chip has had time to answer\, I’m already in my office. \nWe have this very casual\, “Oh\, how’s it going? How are things going for you?” but we rarely stop and listen to the answer and follow up and say\, “No\, really? How are you doing? How are you coping? I know you went through that hard thing? What’s it like for you now?” I think one of the things that we can do for burnout and\, again\, that self-preservation is truly check in with one another\, truly take the time to say\, “Really\, how are you?” \nThat can be a 5-minute conversation\, 10\, 15-minute follow-up conversation\, but it’s just saying I notice you\, I care\, I’m invested in what’s going on in your life. It gives permission for that other person to really start to share and open up a little bit. We hear all the time about how important social support is when it comes to stress\, but I think it goes beyond just checking in with one another and truly asking some of those questions\, which is what I love about the GRIT Program is we really break that down. That’s what I would say\, social support. \nChip: I think the GRIT Program that we want people to recognize this out there and access it\, it’s free and it’s at grit.uccs.edu. It’s something that really teaches people and it’s interesting\, if you’re already a service provider\, a lot of this information is not going to be like\, oh my god\, I’ve never heard that before. It’s packaged in a way to think about how to reach out to people that we care and love in our lives and really create that deeper bond and deeper support that we often think is there\, but we don’t harness it. We don’t really cultivate it necessarily. I think some people do\, some people are really good at that. \nI think helping professionals often are good at doing that for clients\, but they’re not necessarily good at doing that for themselves. I think the GRIT Program might be something for people to think about with that. This morning\, for example\, I went for a quick hike with a good dear friend of mine\, and we had just a wonderful conversation that was deep and meaningful about our lives and what’s happening. We were out for about an hour. I was driving home\, and I was thinking that filled me up. It gave me a sense of connection\, we hugged each other at the end and there was just a calm\, common connection in our lives around somebody cares about me and I care about them. That sounds pretty fundamental\, but I think it is fundamental\, actually. \nNicole: If you see a colleague coming in and they’re in crutches and holding a box and holding a coffee and holding a stack of papers and they’re struggling to get through the door\, any one of us would say\, “Oh\, let me help you. Let me grab this for you. Let me help get you into the door.” At the same time\, I think sometimes we see colleagues coming in and they look upset and they look frustrated\, they look flustered and we have this\, “Oh\, I should respect their privacy moment.” We just let them do their thing. \nI think if we start really respecting how mental health is health\, it’s all one body\, then we can start respecting how can we reach out in those moments as well. “Hey\, I just noticed\, are you okay? Is there anything I can do? Can I offer some assistance right now?” Instead\, we take this really\, “Oh\, we’ll just leave them in their space.” That’s what I think about with those moments as well. \nBob: Do you guys have a framework for how you view resilience? We’ve been talking a lot about social support\, and some resilience researchers talk about internal factors\, external factors. How does your institute and your work look at the factors for resilience? \nCharles: It’s a great question. To be candid\, we spent six months as a team with several people on the team talking about what resilience is because it’s so used in different ways in the literature\, but among people as well. What we really came down on is that\, unfortunately\, a lot of people think resilience is a trait and we really push back against that. I think that’s too simplistic. What resilience is is a process. It’s a process by which a person is able to adapt and change in an effective manner\, a more adaptive manner\, utilizing both internal resources\, so our own capacity to cope\, our efficacy perceptions and so forth\, and external resources like social support. \nWe’re able to harness those in a way when we’re dealing with a severe adversity that has\, in a sense\, knocked us down a little bit\, and we’re having to react to that and come back from it. We utilize our resources in a way that are more effective for us and that enable us to be able to overcome what’s happened. So that\, I think\, is what resilience is. It’s a dynamic process that’s changing across time and the utilization of resources in an effective way. \nBob: Nicole\, can you talk a little bit about the community programs and maybe connecting back to what Chip said\, how those programs might be able to help people build those resources that we draw on? \nNicole: Yes. One of the things that we were really conscientious of with GRIT is putting out some easy resources to share. I think one of the wonderful human phenomenons that happens when we experience a community disaster stress is a lot of genuine people do come together and say how can I help? How can I support? Sometimes what ends up holding us back is I don’t know what I would say. I don’t know what I would share. I don’t know how to reach\, how to get these people to the next resource. \nWith GRIT\, we really break it down into say these are five exact steps of how do you reach out\, how do you make that connection\, so we can make it pretty fluid. Then how do you share some resources? There could be some really helpful resources. We encourage people to be aware of what’s in your community. Then we also share national resources like the Crisis Center number. 211 is it a phenomenal resource. Some of those sites and apps and things like that so that you do feel equipped to share some of this out. \nOne of our favorite stories\, and we share this one a lot\, is when we first launched GRIT out\, which\, by the way we launched [unintelligible 00:25:20] the pandemic really rolled around March 14th\, March 16th-ish\, we rolled our first GRIT class out in April. We were able to really get this out quickly. In the beginning\, when we were doing this\, we did what we called GRIT together\, which is where we welcomed people who took the training to come back and share experiences and feedback. \nSomebody said that\, I reached out to a friend that I– She was just on my mind. I don’t know why. I hadn’t talked to her in several months\, but she was on my mind. I reached out and I checked in and I did the GRIT steps. While they were talking and communicating\, the friend revealed that she was actually in a really dark place and having a lot of really hard thoughts and experiences. The GRIT coach\, the person who just took our training had literally just went through the module where we talk about some of those resources and had the crisis number right there in her mind because she had just gone through that. \nShe was able to share the crisis number\, get her friend connected to some support. Her friend was really able to get some help that very night. One of the things I’m so proud of is just that ability to share those resources. We hear crisis number\, we hear about 211\, we hear about some of these things\, but we sometimes forget it in the moment when we’re overwhelmed with what we’re going through. For a friend or someone\, a loved one to reach out and say\, “Hey\, here is this resource\, here is this thing\,” can be really\, really helpful and beneficial. \nOne of the things we were really excited about is we’re releasing our app\, GRIT E app in the next month or so\, which will be able to push out a lot of those resources in real-time. We’re really excited to be able to share those. \nCharles: I also think it’s important for us to think about\, if you’re a behavioral health provider\, for example\, and you’re working in the military\, you understand resources\, you understand at least some of those resources that you’re typically utilizing for your clients and so forth. I think what we learned from the Support Net project that I mentioned before\, what we did with the Army\, was that having an interconnection with a peer coach\, somebody who is willing to stand by you\, around your own sense of wellness and your goals for your own wellness as a way to either help you if you are burned out or prevents you from getting burned out and that the coaching process with that really helped people to be able to make some strides in their lives towards feeling more whole\, feeling more efficacious again\, you’re making strides in your own health\, which can make you feel better at your own work. \nI think thinking about how to prioritize those goals for yourself and bring some other people one or more into your goal setting and what you’re trying to accomplish can just really\, really be helpful. I think that’s important for service providers in that context to think about as a way to help themselves manage it. \nNicole: Could you share a personal practice that you use to help build your own resilience? \nCharles: For me\, the fundamental things that keep me going include exercise. I really spend a lot of time outside as much as I can because being out in nature for me and moving is really\, really healing for me and it fills me up emotionally\, spiritually\, and so forth. Having that time outside and to be exercising is really vital for me. I’ve made that a priority in my life for a long time. I know I need that\, and I also have very strong social connections. \nOne person in particular in my life\, a man that I’ve known for most of my life now\, we’ve been bicycling every Friday afternoon for 30 years and it’s just a routine. It’s a process in my life that I count on every Friday as a way to decompress. It’s a person who knows me extremely well and that’s just a wonderful\, wonderful thing to have. I think\, again\, that’s that combination of some of it’s individual for me just personally to be outside and building myself up physically and then also socially having somebody who loves me and I love him. Just having that social connection is really vital for me. Of course\, my family and all of that is vital for my own resilience\, that’s for sure. \nNicole: I think similarly\, I really like to start and end my day with walks was something I picked up when I worked at a crisis center. Whenever I have worked with someone who was just heavy on my heart\, I would immediately go for a walk afterwards. That was my big thing. That really got pretty ingrained in me. I really like to start with similar and then nature being out in light. Then family for me as well\, I’ve been with my partner\, my husband\, for 16 years. \nHe’s been through his own whirlwind of experiences and so being able to lean on one another. Then I have a two-year-old and just watching her just learn life has been really exciting. One of my former colleagues\, one of the questions she would like to ask is what brought you joy today and that’s something that I really try to think about every day too\, it’s just what brought a smile to my face\, and usually it’s her little goofy self. Those are my two big ones. \nBob: Chip and Nicole\, thank you so much for the work you’re doing\, and for joining us today on the podcast. \nCharles: My pleasure. I’ve enjoyed it very much. Thank you\, Jessica. Thank you\, Bob. \nNicole: Absolutely\, thank you for having us and allowing us to share what gets us excited. \nBob: Please check out the GRIT program. You can find it at grit.uccs.edu and Lyda Hill Institute for Human Resilience website at Cto learn more about the great work that Chip\, Nicole and all their colleagues are doing. \nErin: That’s it for this episode\, thanks for joining us.  If you enjoyed this episode\, click the share button in your podcast app to share it with a friend. \nWe’ll be back next week. Until then\, keep practicing. \nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/burnout-and-resilience-in-service-providers/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260416T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260416T170000
DTSTAMP:20260504T222305Z
CREATED:20260416T100049Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260504T222305Z
UID:10001760-1776319200-1776358800@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Prevent Burnout with "Unfocusing"
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xOTAxOTk5MSUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTkwMTk5OTEtcHJldmVudC1idXJub3V0LXdpdGgtdW5mb2N1c2luZy5qcyUzRmNvbnRhaW5lcl9pZCUzRGJ1enpzcHJvdXQtcGxheWVyLTE5MDE5OTkxJTI2cGxheWVyJTNEc21hbGwlMjIlMjB0eXBlJTNEJTIydGV4dCUyRmphdmFzY3JpcHQlMjIlMjBjaGFyc2V0JTNEJTIydXRmLTglMjIlM0UlM0MlMkZzY3JpcHQlM0U=[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 16) \nWhat if the key to getting more done is doing less focusing?  \nIn this episode\, Erin introduces the concept of unfocusing – not slacking off\, but intentionally giving your brain a chance to rest and recharge.  \nDrawing from Dr. Srini Pillay’s book Tinker\, Dabble\, Doodle\, Try\, we explore why hyperfocusing leads to burnout\, mental rigidity\, and even impaired decision-making. \nThen Erin walks us through a simple\, low-pressure practice to help you build a healthier cognitive rhythm — no major schedule overhaul required\, just a 10-minute alarm. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nTinker\, Dabble\, Doodle\, Try by Dr Srini Pillay : https://drsrinipillay.com/resource/tinker-dabble-doodle-try/ \nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]JESSICA BECKENDORF: [00:00:00] Hi\, thanks for listening to the Practicing Connection Podcast. I’m Jessica\, my co-host\, Erin is here as well. And today we’ll be talking about the power of ‘Unfocusing.’ And Erin’s going to be sharing a practice with us. Hi Erin. What’s making you excited right now? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Wow\, that’s such a fun question. I had a bunch of really interesting conversations with coworkers at a professional development conference last week\, and so I’m really excited to follow up\, and I found some new areas to dig into and really learn about at this conference. So I love learning new things\, so that gets me really excited when I get to learn new stuff. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I have the same kind of bent toward learning new things. I get – I always like to actually joke that\, “My hobby is actually learning new things.” When I learned a long time ago\, I used to feel guilty about how I\, and I think I’ve talked about this on the podcast [00:01:00] before\, but how I would like want to get into something\, a hobby\, and I would buy all the things related to that hobby and I would do it. I would\, you can’t really say master it once\, but I would feel good enough about what I created one or two times that I would be like\, “Cool.” \nAnd it’s almost like my brain was like\, “Check. You’ve done that. You don’t have to do it anymore\, ever.” And then I just let the stuff sit there for years\, all the stuff that I bought\, and I used to feel really guilty about that. And that pattern kind of continued. And then I\, when I realized that my actual hobby is that I love to learn and try new things\, then I stopped buying quite as much when I wanted to get into something\, and I would look to see like\, where could I borrow it from or what’s the cheapest way that I could get into the hobby without having to get a lot of inventory or put a lot of\, you know\, outlay out there\, cash outlay. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That is so relatable\, but I’m not going to respond anymore because we have to stay on topic. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right! Let’s [00:02:00] stay on topic. \nWell\, we’d love to hear what’s going on with you. Please drop us a line at practicingconnection@oneop.org. We’ve actually recently started to do some mailbag episodes\, so we’d love to hear any questions you have. We see and respond to every message\, and we can’t wait to hear from you. \n– break – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Okay\, let’s learn more about unfocusing. Erin\, first of all\, what is unfocusing? I had not heard this term until you brought it up to me\, when we were talking about this while we were producing the episode. It doesn’t really sound like something that could be helpful at work\, to be honest. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I know\, my initial response to the word unfocusing was\, “Oh\, so we should be slacking more.” Which I think tells you a lot about me\, I was like\, “Oh\, that’s an interesting response\, self.” Hmm. \nBut I actually [00:03:00] learned about it in a book by Dr. Srini Pillay: Tinker\, Dabble\, Doodle\, Try.  \nDr. Pillay is a psychiatrist and brain researcher. And he was the one who introduced me to the word ‘unfocusing.’ So he describes unfocusing as\, “The process for relaxing your brain so that it can be ready\, recharged\, coordinated\, and innovative when you need it to be.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Hmm. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Which does actually sound pretty helpful at work. In my experience when I’m trying to be more productive\, there’s this voice in me that says\, “Oh\, you just have to focus harder\,” because I have all this experience where when I focus\, I can really get a lot of stuff done. \nAnd I think what made me bring this idea to the podcast is\, when I started learning about some of the things that can happen when you double down on focusing\, or hyperfocus\, you’d think\, “Oh\, well\, more focusing is better.” \nBut actually focusing too [00:04:00] much can be like a major\, a major challenge. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: No\, this is really interesting because we hear a lot nowadays about how we should not be multitasking. Multitasking is really bad for us\, and so this kind of feels like the opposite even though it’s not really the opposite. \nI’m not sure how to describe it. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. Well\, we’ll get into it. But before we get into more of that\, I want to talk a little bit about what can happen if you hyperfocus too much? \nBecause when I’m thinking about changing how I use my brain\, the cost of switching is really high. So I’ve really got to convince myself\, and these were the things that convinced me\, “Oh\, maybe I should try this.” \nSo\, I have three big things that happen for people when you are only hyper-focusing. One is called selective attention\, and the best example of that is\, have you seen the Invisible Gorilla video where they play – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: It’s invisible. I haven’t seen it. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. So there’s this video\, and it’s a group of people [00:05:00] and they all have different colored shirts\, and they’re passing a ball. \nAnd they did this experiment where they would play this video for people and they would ask\, “How many people with red shirts on touched the ball during the video?” And then you would watch it. \nAnd then at the end of the video they would say\, “Did you see the gorilla?” And nobody saw the gorilla. And then you rewatch the video and you see there’s a person in a gorilla costume dancing through the video halfway through. But when you’re hyper-focused on seeing who with a red shirt is catching the ball\, you miss the gorilla. \nAnd what can happen in our work is if we’re only hyper-focusing\, we can miss major warning signs\, we can miss major opportunities. We can miss problems that are coming up that we’re unaware of. \nAnd so\, unfortunately\, once you know what’s happening\, you can’t miss the gorilla. So I’m sorry if I made you not have that experience. It is really shocking the [00:06:00] first time that happens to you. I had a teacher show us that and I was like\, Ugh. \nSo the other thing that can happen is loss of caring\, which is also a symptom of depression\, so that you might have heard that specific phrase before. But essentially when you hyperfocus\, it’s the same part of your brain that you use for moral decision making and assessing consequences of your actions\, so it fatigues that part of your brain and you have less capacity to assess the consequences of an action. \nAnd so a lot of time when people make choices that later they’re like\, “Ooh\, why did I do that?” It’s because they lost their ability\, or some of their ability\, to process consequences of their actions. Which is so fascinating\, right? And you’re like\, these are not good. \nAnd then the third one is called long-term discounting\, or a tendency to minimize the importance of the future. So I see this one a lot on teams that have a huge [00:07:00] workload\, and so they’re really focusing super hard to get the workload done\, and then they end up not thinking about the cost that they’re going to have in the future. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Or even missing an opportunity to apply for some funding\, or missing opportunities because they’re so focused on getting the stuff done. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. That’s a great example. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So how do we avoid the dangers of hyper-focusing? Right? So obviously focusing has got to be helpful sometimes I assume. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes\, actually. Okay. So the best example that I got from this book that I’m reading is they compared focus to a flashlight that has multiple settings. Hopefully you’ve used one of these\, so this makes sense. \nSo focus is when you have a really close\, narrow beam that really brightly highlights a specific small area. And this is really useful if it’s nighttime and you need to find something\, or you need to fix something in your car. \nAnd unfocused [00:08:00] is the equivalent of a wide diffused beam that reaches far and wide and enables you to have peripheral vision. And so obviously both of those flashlight settings are very useful\, but they’re not useful in all circumstances. \nAnd you get the best use of your battery life when you’re able to switch between the two. And the same is true for your brain. You fatigue your brain less when you switch between focus and unfocus\, and you use focus in specific situations\, and unfocus in other situations. To kind of balance and build a rhythm of focusing in on focusing\, and that’s how you can utilize the benefits without landing in these places where you lose capacity. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: All right. Well\, I mean\, I do have one of those flashlights. I actually have a whole bunch of those flashlights because it’s very helpful for taking your dog out at night. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: But so how do we do this in real life? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, [00:09:00] as I said\, you know\, the sweet spot is training your brain to shift in and out of focus\, and Dr. Malay calls this ‘Building a cognitive rhythm.’ \nSo to get brain sciencey about it\, and I want to just add a little disclaimer\, I am summarizing somebody else’s expertise. I am not a brain expert. But essentially unfocusing is activating what is called the default mode network in your brain. \nHe described it as the ‘Home of abstract thought\,’ which is very fun. And when you activate that part of your brain\, it acts as a distraction sponge. It can help with mental flexibility. It connects you more deeply with yourself and others. It helps you integrate your past\, your present\, and your future\, which is really helpful for decision making\, pattern recognition and creative problem solving. \nAnd the goal is a lot of time\, the rhythm that people have\, if they’ve spent a lot of time depending on focusing in order to get done\, is they have a focus\, focus\, focus [00:10:00] fatigue\, rhythm\, where they just kind of focus until their brain crashes\, and they’re really tired or they’re burnt out or they can’t anymore. \nAnd his recommendation is that you pivot to focus\, tinker\, focus\, play\, focus\, nap\, focus. You know\, you switch between these different unfocusing strategies\, and then you can cut the fatigue crash portion out of your cognitive rhythm\, which is exciting. Obviously this is a whole book. I’m not gonna be able to summarize a whole book. \nBut what we’re going to do is I have a practice that I’ll share in a minute that’s kind of like an an initial first baby step to practice noticing what it feels like to unfocus\, and try it out in a low risk\, low stakes way\, so that you can kind of build your mental muscle for relaxing your brain. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, why don’t we get started with that\, or did you have something else you wanted to share? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, I think I just want to mention before I get into this practice\, everybody’s brain’s a little bit different. Everybody has different [00:11:00] experiences\, they’re in a different context. People might have different neuro types. And if you’re not familiar with Neurotype\, that’s a long conversation that I will get super hyperfocused on\, so I won’t get into it. \nBut essentially\, different people’s brains are set up to process information differently\, and what works for one person isn’t going to magically work for another person. So this practice is specifically designed to help you explore ‘what is helpful to me.’ \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, and that’s how we do a lot of our practices\, right? We know that sometimes we’re covering a very similar practice than we’ve covered in the past\, but we’re doing it in a little bit of a different way. And we do that because of what you just said\, Erin\, because everyone is a little bit different\, and you always need to find what works for you. \nSo yes\, I love this. Let’s get started. Please walk us through the practice. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay\, step one is to make a list of two to three activities that are undemanding for you. Look for things that physically separate you from a focus task. [00:12:00] Move your body or engage one of your senses\, and ideally don’t require you to look at a screen\, phone or computer. Sometimes that’s not possible\, but try. \nSo some examples of what that might look like is taking a walk along a familiar route\, so you don’t have to think about where you’re going. Listening to a song with your eyes closed and just enjoying it. Coloring a coloring page or doodling\, like drawing some sketches\, taking a nap\, looking out a window while doing the dishes. \nLetting your mind wander without trying to make any decisions. Imagining a zany ‘what-if’ scenario. That one I’m going to add a little asterisk of ‘don’t catastrophize.’ Don’t imagine the worst case scenario. Imagine a positive scenario whenever possible. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Can I add one to this list that I love to do? I like to\, if I can\, sit outside\, because it’s not always nice sitting outside weather here\, but if I [00:13:00] can sit outside\, I love to just close my eyes and listen to all the sounds and just like name the sound. \nLike if I hear a bird\, I might be like\, oh\, bird. Bird. And I’ll just keep repeating that until I get to – it’s a mindfulness practice. And then like\, I’ll hear a car drive by and I’ll be like\, car\, car. And I’ll just name the sounds as they come by\, and it’s so relaxing \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So that’s the whole point\, is undemanding. Yes. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. Okay. So step two is to look at your schedule\, hopefully for a whole week\, maybe more\, and find a time in your day where you can set an unfocus alarm once a day. \nIt doesn’t have to be the same time every day. There’s no perfect time\, but try to look for about 10 minutes where you’re free to do whatever you want. Bonus points if this can be during your workday\, but if you don’t have control over your work schedule\, after work is fine. But the goal is to just physically\, on your phone or your calendar or [00:14:00] however\, keep track of time\, set an alarm once a day for a week to go unfocus\, and find time to do this practice. \nAnd then step three is to stop focusing when the alarm rings. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Stop Unfocusing when the alarm rings? Stop focusing when your alarm rings? \nOh\, I see. You’re setting your alarm for a certain time of day\, every day. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay\, yes\, so essentially\, this is hard because I’m trying to make it open to everybody\, but it’s getting confusing. So essentially you’re setting an alarm for unfocused time once a day. It’s helpful for many people if it’s the same time every day\, but if that is giving you stress hives\, just schedule like 10 minute window and set an alarm. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: You know me so well. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. Is that clear? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: You knew where I was going with that. Okay. Yes\, yes. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So when your alarm goes off\, stop whatever you’re doing\, [00:15:00] even if you’re in the middle of it\, even if you’re five words away from finishing your sentence. \nThis is the part that’s hard\, like this is the hard part because if you’re used to focusing and then crashing\, your brain is going to tell you that if you stop focusing now\, you’re going to lose your momentum and your flow and your productivity\, and whatever you’re working on. \nAnd that may be true some of the time. And we’re training our brain to have a new rhythm where we don’t crash. When we stop focusing\, we relax. And when you’ve trained your brain to relax\, not crash\, it means you can come back refreshed and not forgetting everything you were doing. And this is the step that I think is the hardest because it takes the most willpower\, discipline\, faith\, trust. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, and this is so interesting too because I think we hear a lot about how interruptions take us [00:16:00] 15 to 20 minutes to get reengaged. Like with some of the information that comes out there\, this research sounds really interesting because it kind of is counter to some of the advice we’ve been hearing. \nAnd so I think that might be one of the reasons. It’s hard too\, because it feels counterproductive. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. And nothing so far has said that that isn’t true. But you’re interrupting yourself and then you’re setting – step four is to set a 10 minute timer where you do one of the activities that you identified in step one. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: And so I think some of what we’re doing here is we’re intentionally stopping and relaxing\, and these activities that are undemanding help build capacity. \nSo you’re pausing and you’re relaxing your brain\, and that will help you refocus later. So one of the things that is really interesting that they’re finding is that when you intentionally unfocus\, it helps sharpen your ability to [00:17:00] refocus. And so it actually makes some of the transitions and the interruptions a little bit easier if instead of being interrupted\, focusing on one thing too hard\, focusing on another thing\, you have this buffer time of unfocusing to kind of transition and re-relax your brain so it’s not fatigued. \nIt’s the difference of\, you know\, if you’re doing reps while you’re lifting weights. and if you just keep going and keep going\, that’s where the gains really come. And also if you just keep going and never\, ever stop\, that’s also how you injure yourself\, right? So it’s helpful to a point\, and then you’ve got to rest and release your muscles so that you can do your reps again. \nThat’s kind of the system that I think is being shown. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: This is so interesting. You’ve got this set up as a four step process\, but it’s got to be one of the easiest four step processes I’ve ever seen. It’s basically\, have a couple of activities in your back pocket that are [00:18:00] really un demanding when your alarm goes off\, right? \nSo then you’re setting an alarm\, possibly at the same time every day\, maybe at different times\, just depending on what your schedule is like\, for 10 minutes. You’re doing one of those activities. \nAnd it looks like you might have a secret step five. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes\, I realized that as usual\, the secret step five is reflection. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Ha. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: There’s always a reflection on this podcast. And I think what is helpful\, especially because this is kind of a baby step\, almost a training wheel\, to practice these rhythms\, you maybe don’t need to do this specific practice forever. \nThere might be some other rhythm of unfocusing that is a better one for you long term\, but this is just a way to practice and train your brain that it’s not a threat\, and it’s not scary. \nSo after you’ve done it for like a week or two weeks\, take five minutes to just think about how did it go? What was it like? Did this help me? And as we said\, everybody’s brains are different\, so if it [00:19:00] didn’t help you\, don’t keep doing it. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Obviously this is why I say do it for a week or two weeks first\, because change is hard\, and your brain kind of struggles. Do a little bit of pushing through your discomfort \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: As you’re trying it\, let yourself be uncomfortable in it for a little bit before you write it off. Don’t try to do this forever if it’s just really messing you up. \nSo that’s the practice. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Thank you so much for guiding us through that. \nWe would love to hear how it’s going for you\, too. So\, if you get a moment\, drop us a line at practicingconnection@oneop.org. \nErin\, do you have any final words you want to share? About the episode? Not just final words. That would be weird. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I think what’s so exciting to me about the principles and practices in this book\, I’m probably going to talk about more of them in future episodes\, is they feel really kind. It feels like a lot of invitations to be kinder to [00:20:00] yourself. \nI think often the answer to productivity is to be more disciplined\, and that has a really narrow definition. And I think this is a type of discipline. Forcing yourself\, like relaxing\, takes discipline\, which is so funny when you think about it\, those ideas feel incompatible. \nBut I think what’s really lovely is to be disciplined about rest\, be disciplined about relaxing. It’s actually important for your brain to function. And I love how it’s a very kind invitation to build rhythms that are healthy\, not just productive. \nAnd one of the net results is increased sharpened focus and productivity. But the goal here is not optimizing yourself for output. It’s optimizing yourself for sustainability and longevity. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: “10X your output!” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, 10 x your output by lasting 10 more years\, right? Like this I think is such an [00:21:00] exciting framework for thinking about burnout prevention\, because often burnout has to do with brain fatigue\, and so this is specifically a methodology for resting your brain and keeping your brain healthy. \nIt’s like good brain hygiene. It’s like brushing your teeth. It’s like restarting your computer once a week so it doesn’t melt down. These are the things. \nSo I think that’s my summary is\, if you’re really on the fence of like\, “What could this possibly do for me?” This is how you keep yourself from burning out. Here’s an invitation to be kind and be sustainable with your use of your own self and your own brain. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Awesome. Well\, that’s it for this episode. Thanks so much for joining us. \nIf you enjoyed this episode\, click the share button in your podcast app and share it with a friend or colleague. We’ll be back next week with a new episode. \nUntil then\, keep practicing. \n[00:22:00]\nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/prevent-burnout-with-unfocusing/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260409T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260409T170000
DTSTAMP:20260511T133326Z
CREATED:20260409T100026Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260511T133326Z
UID:10001759-1775714400-1775754000@oneop.org
SUMMARY:How to Get the Most Out of the Practicing Connection Podcast (Listener Q&A)
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The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xODk3Mjc5OCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTg5NzI3OTgtaG93LXRvLWdldC10aGUtbW9zdC1vdXQtb2YtcHJhY3RpY2luZy1jb25uZWN0aW9uLXBvZGNhc3QtbGlzdGVuZXItcS1hLmpzJTNGY29udGFpbmVyX2lkJTNEYnV6enNwcm91dC1wbGF5ZXItMTg5NzI3OTglMjZwbGF5ZXIlM0RzbWFsbCUyMiUyMHR5cGUlM0QlMjJ0ZXh0JTJGamF2YXNjcmlwdCUyMiUyMGNoYXJzZXQlM0QlMjJ1dGYtOCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRnNjcmlwdCUzRQ==[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 15) \nHave you ever asked\, “So what do I do with this?” after listening to a Practicing Connection episode?  \nPut the pieces together with us on our first Q&A episode!  \nJoin Erin and Jessica as we answer listener questions on how to start actually doing practices\, including must-listen episodes and what practices you can combine. \nWe share some of our favorite episodes and practices\, along with suggestions for listeners to take the next steps in their own practicing journey. \nThere’s lots here\, so bookmark this one\, these episodes will keep you company for a while! \nEpisodes referenced in this episode: \n\nEncouragement That Works: How to Give a Real Pep Talk https://oneop.org/learn/how-to-give-a-real-pep-talk/\nBeyond Sleep: Four Kinds of Rest We All Need https://oneop.org/learn/beyond-sleep-four-kinds-of-rest-we-all-need/\nMore than a Meal: Building Community and Resilience with Chef Mary Long https://oneop.org/learn/more-than-a-meal-building-community-and-resilience-with-chef-mary-long/\nCollaboration in Action: Serving Military Families through Strengthening Communities https://oneop.org/learn/collaboration-in-action/\nAdventure-Ready: Strengthening Military Families Through Teen Camps https://oneop.org/learn/adventure-ready-strengthening-military-families-through-teen-camps/\, https://fcs.mgcafe.uky.edu/MTAC\nDo Less of What Drains You https://oneop.org/learn/do-less-of-what-drains-you/\nUsing the Feeling Wheel to Know Your Emotions https://oneop.org/learn/using-the-feeling-wheel-to-know-your-emotions-s-4-ep-11/\nListening for Strengths and Values https://oneop.org/learn/listening-for-strengths-and-values-s-5-ep-2/\nAn Ecosystem of Military Family Support with Nicola Winkel https://oneop.org/learn/learning-from-each-other-s-5-ep-5/\nNotice Offers & See Them as Gifts\, with Shannon Hughes https://oneop.org/learn/notice-offers-see-them-as-gifts-s-5-ep-13/\nStrengthening Military Community Connections with Amy Rodick https://oneop.org/learn/strengthening-military-community-connections/\nHabit Stacking https://oneop.org/learn/habit-stacking/\nEnding the Day Strong: A 5-minute Daily Reset https://oneop.org/learn/ending-the-day-strong-a-5-minute-daily-reset/\nReconnecting with Wonder to Spark Creativity https://oneop.org/learn/reconnecting-with-wonder-to-sparl-creativity/\n\nFurther links and resources for the podcast: \n\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”][00:00:00]\nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Hi. Thank you for listening to the Practicing Connection Podcast. I’m Erin. My co-host Jessica is here as well. Today we’ll be answering listener questions in our first ever mailbag episode. \nHi Jessica. How are you feeling about answering questions today? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I am so excited for this episode. ‘Cause as you know\, I got a peek at the questions\, and I’m just really excited. I hope that my voice holds out\, as you might be able to tell\, I have a little bit of a cold. But I am super stoked about this episode. We’ve been planning this for a while. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: How are you feeling about it? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I’m feeling really excited. I think it’s fun to have actual interaction with some questions from others\, which is fun. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And you got to collect these too. So that must have been fun. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I did get to collect these. It was really fun\, and I got to\, I kind of selected which ones we’re doing\, and I think it’ll be [00:01:00] really fun because you’ve been doing this podcast for a while. You’ve been here since the beginning of the podcast. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Since the beginning of time. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: And I’m new\, so I think it’ll be really fun to see how different our answers are to questions. Are you ready to dive in? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I am\, and I’ll try not to be long-winded. As you said\, I’ve been here since the beginning of time. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I did not say you have been here since the beginning of time! You just helped found it. You’re a founder. It’s very exciting. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Okay. Let’s do it. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. First question. \n“Hi\, I’m new to listening to the podcast. I love that you have interviews and Practicasts. The practices all seem super useful when I’m listening\, but I can never manage to get myself to actually do one. Do you have any suggestions on how to get unstuck and actually try something?” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I do. And actually\, the suggestions that I have come from some of the foundational work [00:02:00] that Bob and I were doing when we first started this podcast. \nSo\, the first one is\, touch the treadmill. And what I mean by that\, you were about to ask what I mean by that\,right? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I was. You read my eyebrow perfectly. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So what that means is\, you’ve got a treadmill\, and you’ve got the will potentially to use it. But also it’s very difficult somehow to use. And the idea here is that if you promise yourself that all you have to do is go downstairs or go to wherever the treadmill is and just touch it\, chances are you’re going to get up on the thing and go for a couple minutes. And you might negotiate with yourself and say\, “I only need to do five minutes\, and I’m gonna consider that a win for today\,” right? \nSo the chances of when you go and touch the treadmill of you getting on it are greater. \nAnd then if you get on it\, the chances of you going for five minutes\, or maybe\, you know\, you get to five minutes and you’re like\, “Oh\, I can go five more minutes\,” the [00:03:00] chances of you doing something with it are greater. \nAnd so the idea here is getting unstuck. You don’t have to try the whole thing. You can just say\, “You know what\, I’m going to consider it a win if I just do a piece of this practice\, or if I just do a piece of this thing.” \nOr if I start by\, for example\, I know that I want to get up out of bed – my goal is to get up out of bed by 6:30 in the morning. That is really hard for me. And so right now I am happy if I’m getting out of bed before 7:00 AM. It can be one minute before 7:00 AM. It can be 30 seconds before 7:00 AM. I don’t care. I’m happy if I’m getting up before 7:00 AM. \nMy goal\, I know\, is eventually I’m going to keep walking that back 10 minutes at a time. But as soon as I start to very consistently get up before 7:00 AM\, then I’ll set it back to 6:50. So I want to get up before 6:50 AM. So eventually my goal will be to be getting up [00:04:00] before or at 6:30 AM. \nAnd so to me\, touching the treadmill is 6:59 and 59 seconds. If I get up\, right\, then that is still a win. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I love this. We call this breaking inertia. That’s what we talk about at our house\, where it’s like once you get started\, it’s easier to keep going\, but finding the momentum to get going is the hardest thing. So you can come up with the most laughably easy success. \nYou know\, we do this thing where we’ll do walks every day in the winter\, and sometimes before we like fully went into it\, I was\, I did a lot of saying\, “Okay\, I just have to stand outside. I just have to get dressed and put shoes on and go outside.” And then once I was out there\, I was like\, “Wait\, actually it’s nice out here.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yep. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So that’s me retelling the thing you just told [00:05:00] again\, \nBut – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, and these are both physical examples. I want to give also like a maybe non-physical example. So I really value and enjoy creative writing\, and yet I hardly ever do it\, but I’ve been doing it lately because I had to touch the treadmill of attitude about it. \nAnd I’m like\, all I have to do is open Scrivener\, click through a few of my chapters\, maybe read a couple things. I don’t have to even do any of that. All I have to do is open Scrivener and just like look at the project for a second. That’s the touch the treadmill. \nAnd then once I’m in it\, I do tend to read through what I’ve got and maybe I’ll add a few words here or there. Maybe I don’t. Sometimes I don’t\, but I still feel like I won\, because I did something in that space. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Awesome. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And the other thing that I would say of getting unstuck and actually trying something is to remember that you don’t have to do anything perfectly the first time\, or ever. You don’t ever have to do anything perfectly. \nThere are [00:06:00] systems that I have followed\, what is that\, David Allen’s Getting Things Done system. I tried that so many times. It doesn’t work for me\, but you know what\, there are little pieces of it that work for me really well. And so I stole those few little pieces and I started assembling my own thing. \nAnd so one of the things I always say comes from this yoga teacher that I had once\, that it’s yoga practice people\, not yoga perfect. It’s yoga practice\, not yoga perfect. \nAnd so remember that anything that you’re doing is practice\, and you can just take from it what you want. You don’t have to do the whole thing in its perfection\, the whole in its entirety\, just because someone else developed this thing for you to follow. \nYou don’t have to follow everything. Just take the little pieces that mean something to you. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I love that. Okay\, so my initial thought when I read this question was about “switch [00:07:00] costs.” Have you heard of this term? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Is this sort of like context switching\, or is it something else? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Kind of. Essentially it’s: brains kind of default to what they’re familiar with\, what routines and what you’ve done before. And that’s kind of your default. \nAnd so when you make a change\, there’s a cost to it\, and sometimes your brain is just resistant to it. Even if you think it’ll be a good change\, your brain is trying to protect you from wasting time\, energy\, resources\, danger. \nBecause sometimes change can read as danger\, and so your brain is just like\, “Oh\, it’s not worth doing.” And a lot of times\, I heard about this first in creative spaces where people had been working for a long time\, or also in entrepreneurship\, which is funny. People will work on something for a long time\, and right before they’re about to go public with it\, they just have the major energy slump crisis of\, “Am I able to pull this off?” \nAnd it’s this kind of “switch [00:08:00] cost” place. The best advice I’ve gotten for navigating switch cost\, when suddenly your brain’s telling you\, “Oh\, this is gonna cost too much to try\,” is something called spread of alternatives\, where basically you imagine\, “Okay\, what will it be like if I stay the same?” \nAnd then you also imagine\, “What could be different in a good way if I tried the new thing?” It’s a lot like visualization. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Or I always like to say\, “What could this make possible?” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. And that helps your brain freak out less about change to imagine. You can kind of see\, okay\, what will it cost me to keep doing it the way that I’m doing it\, and what could benefit me from doing it a new way? \nAnd that kind of helps shift the balance in your brain into a new thing. So I don’t know if that’s what’s happening for the person asking this question\, but to me it sounds like often I hear a similar question from people [00:09:00] who are maybe overwhelmed\, or have a huge workload on their plate. And so adding one more thing feels impossible. \nMy response to that would be that your workload is never going to change unless you start trying something. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So change isn’t the enemy necessarily\, and here’s a way to help you decide if a change is worth doing. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Oh\, I love that. \nWell\, what’s our next question? Let’s\, I’m\, we’re warming up here. I appreciate that first one. I like the order you put this in. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Oh\, thank you. Okay\, so question two: “I just started listening to the podcast. What are your top must-listen-to episodes from past seasons? There are too many to listen to them all.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So the\, my first thought when I saw this question is\, “You think I’m going to be able to narrow this down very much? \nI mean\, yes\, I can narrow it down for sure\, but as we’ve [00:10:00] established\, I’ve been here since the beginning of time on this podcast. And so\, I did make a few notes. It’s certainly not all-inclusive because if I had been all inclusive\, It would’ve just been too long of a list\, but I’m going to start with one of our most recent episodes. \nI really loved the conversation I had with the mayor of Havelock\, Will Lewis. That was published in February\, \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, last episode of February. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. And frankly\, I love a lot of our interview episodes. Bringing other voices on the podcast\, but also just learning from others. \nSo I loved talking with the mayor of Havelock. Havelock has done some amazing things and created some really strong partnerships\, and collaborations across disciplines\, public and private\, the installation nearby\, and the city officials. And I just think they’ve done a tremendous job there. \nAnother one that comes to [00:11:00] mind really strongly is the More Than a Meal with Chef Mary Long. Her work is at the US Army North Vogel Resilience Center in San Antonio. She has these really innovative cooking classes\, and she talked a lot about how the community that’s built up around this center has been really important for the service members who have been taking advantage of that in their families. \nAnd some of our Practicasts that have come to mind: this is one I told you I was going to mention it\, even though it has not been super popular with the listeners. I love this practice and it has helped me tremendously. \nThere’s an episode we have called Energy and Engagement Tracking. I don’t know\, maybe it’s the name of the episode that isn’t playing very well\, but it is not as well-loved as I thought it was going- it’s not like the hit I thought it was going to be. But I love that episode\, and I love the practice that we shared during that. It’s [00:12:00] something that I literally have used – all of our practices we have used – but this is one that I keep coming back to and using. \nAnother one using the Feeling Wheel to Understand Emotions. This one is well-loved among our listeners. Any of our strengths-based ones\, so like the Via Character Strengths\, as you know\, I talk about them all the time. I’ve had a lot of training in them\, and I speak about them way too annoyingly often. \nSo really any of our strengths-based episodes. But one in particular is Listening for Strengths. I think our Ecosystem of Military Family Support with Nicola Winkle was one of my personal favorites. \nAnd then we did three episodes that were based on improv\, and I bring it up here and there\, I try not to mention it too much\, but I did used to perform improv\, and really have learned a lot about the application of theater and improvisational theater tools [00:13:00] in life. And I’ve brought a lot of that to my work. And so we have three episodes on that that we did with a tremendous guest\, Shannon Hughes from Enlivened Studios. \nI just loved doing these episodes. There were three of them. They are: Yes\, And vs. Yeah\, But\, Make Your Partner Look Good\, and Notice Offers & See Them as Gifts. \nAnd all of those ones I just mentioned\, they’re all some of my personal favorites. \nI have many personal favorites on the podcast\, and I’m not trying to sound like\, I don’t know\, I really do feel like I’ve created something that I would listen to. And so it’s very genuine love for this podcast when I say that I could have gone on and listed more\, so I could keep going. \nAnd the last thing I’ll say is that any of our interviews really are such a joy for me\, and I think that any of our interviews are a must-listen. And we’ve even spoken with Amy Roddick\, the Director of Military Family and Readiness policy a couple of times\, [00:14:00] those have been really great conversations and I look forward hopefully to more. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Wow. Okay. So I think that’s a great list. I’ll keep mine super short because I don’t want to overwhelm people with 20 episodes. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Like I just did. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Um\, yes. Also\, because I have to go hunt all of these down so we can put links in the show notes. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Do not despair. Every episode we mention in this episode will be linked in the show notes\, even if it ends up being 20. Just so that you don’t have to go find them\, they’re going to be right there. \nI think one of the first episodes I ever listened to was Adventure Ready\, Strengthening Military Families Through Teen Camps. That was last year. And it was this really cool episode where our colleague Kristen came on with some of her coworkers from Kentucky to talk about these really cool 4-H adventure camps that they do for military youth and their parents\, where they can [00:15:00] go with their parent. \nAnd I think what I loved about that is\, camp is familiar to me\, both my mother and one of my best friends have done the running summer camp thing. And so it was very familiar. It was a context I understood\, but I hadn’t really understood the military layer until I listened to that episode. \nAnd they were talking about how they do all of the normal camp things\, but there was one major difference\, which was\, military parents were expressing\, “We don’t want to be separated from our kid. We’re already separated so much. We want time to do things together. We want experiences together so we can have quality time with our teens.” \nAnd then they developed these camps out of that idea. And I\, first of all\, loved it. The camp sounded super cool\, super fun\, and it’s clear that they’re really being intentional. And it was just a delight to hear this group. You should definitely all go listen to that episode. They’re still running the camps. I think [00:16:00] registration for this year opens like next week sometime. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I was going to say\, it’s got to be coming soon because we did this last April. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, that would make sense. I think April is the Month of the Military Child\, so definitely a season in which we do it. I’ll put the links to that episode and to the camp also in our show notes. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: That’s also any branch too\, right? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. There’s a registration fee of like $60 for this camp. But otherwise\, the camps are completely free and include equipment\, lodging\, and meals. So it’s a very exciting opportunity. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And you don’t have to be in Kentucky\, right. You can be from anywhere. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, that’s what I thought. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. That was a great conversation\, and I saw that you listed it\, so I didn’t put it in my list\, but it is one of the interviews that I loved last year. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. So much like deep thought was put into what people were doing\, and it was clear they were so passionate about what they were doing and so it was just pleasant\, and [00:17:00] everybody had really lovely sounding voices. You know\, every once in a while someone’s voice just like hits the perfect spot. \nAnyway\, I really enjoyed that episode. And one episode I really loved that I did\, I was kind of like the lead writer for it\, was Beyond Sleep: Four Kinds of Rest We All Need\, where we walk people through how to do an inventory of different types of rest that you need. \nAnd part of why I love it is because after we recorded it\, I kept having conversations with all of these people where they were just saying\, “Oh\, I had all this time off\, and I’m so exhausted.” I was like\, “Hey\, it’s possible you’re not getting the rest you need.” \nSo then I ended up referring a bunch of people to it and having that conversation\, and actually doing that inventory with a couple of people to help them come up with new ways of resting \nAnd getting to actually see people have these transformative experiences [00:18:00] because of a practice that I was the lead writer on was really invigorating. Selfishly\, I loved it because it really helps motivate me to write specific and thorough episodes. You know\, we think pretty deeply about what we’re sharing\, and it’s really encouraging to see\, ‘Oh yeah\, this is actually helpful. It’s not just helpful to me personally. It is helpful to a broad audience.” \nSo those are kind of my top two. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I love that. I really loved that episode. Also that Practicast you mentioned. And it makes me want to actually go back and listen to it because\, I mean\, yes\, I know I need physical rest right now because I’m getting over a little bit of a virus. But\, I’m reminded that there’s other kinds of rest that I could use right now too. \nSo I kind of want to go back and listen to that. \nOur next question? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. Okay. \n“Thanks for introducing me to habit stacking as a productivity tool. Do you have any [00:19:00] recommendations for how we could stack practices? Is that a thing you can even do? What practices could we combine for greater impact? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Okay. So\, Erin\, you might suspect I’m going to mention something about character strengths. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay\, sure. Sure. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So\, I mean\, I would say I will always answer questions like this with telling people to lean into\, learn about and practice anything to do with building your character strengths. \nAnd then I would say combine that with emotional intelligence. Things like knowing and regulating your emotions. And we do have some episodes using the feeling wheel to help you know your emotions. We have some other episodes about regulating your emotions as well\, if I recall. \nSo anyway\, combine character strengths with emotional intelligence\, and then if you can mix in a little like “yes\, and…” or\, any of those\, you know\, making your partner look [00:20:00] good or the idea of seeing everything in front of you as an offer\, including the environment\, what people are saying to you. Those are all offers that you can build with. \nSo those kinds of things combined I think will help you be present with others\, will help you just be present period. Not just present with others\, but just be present\, period. \nThey will help you improve your relationships and help you build your adaptability and confidence. Adaptability in particular is really important. Things are constantly changing\, and I think for some reason we keep denying that that’s what’s happening. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. That makes sense. Hilariously\, a lot of the episodes we recommended as must-listens are ones that would be pretty compatible with each other. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. I think so too. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. \nLet’s see what else. I had like a few specific ones. Oh\, so one of our most recent episodes\, I think it’s [00:21:00] published\, yeah\, was about How to Give Pep Talks\, or\, Encouragement That Works. And shortly before that\, we had one about social awareness\, Turning Conflict into Collaboration. \nAnd I think you can take the practice for observing people on your team and imagining them more complexly from the turning conflict into collaboration. So combine that kind of social intelligence\, observing other people and learning about them\, with how to give a pep talk to give a really\, really good pep talk. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Or if you’re like going through the practice of trying to write a pep talk and you keep getting stuck\, ’cause you don’t know what people need to hear or you can’t quite figure out what’s happening\, using that practice from Turning Conflict Into Collaboration to really figure out what is it that’s going on with people\, what do they value\, what’s important to them? And then figuring out\, okay\, how does that connect to my pep talk? \nAnd then maybe even rewriting your pep talk\, because I think once you figure out people’s values\, it’s way easier to [00:22:00] write a pep talk. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So that’s one combination I recommend. And I think one other thing is we had an episode last year about ending the day strong with a daily reflection. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. We have maybe a lot of those\, but that’s okay. Right? You pick the daily reflection that works for you. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. Basically any of our reflection practices combine well with other ones because a lot of them are about noticing. So if you’re trying a new thing\, the daily reflection practice\, I think is specifically really useful if you’re trying a new practice\, and you want to see what impact it’s having on your experience. \nSo like start doing that daily reflection before you start another practice\, and then keep doing it after to help you kind of notice the impact of it\, and if it’s worth continuing. \nIf it’s really hitting what you need it to hit\, or if you need to pivot and try something new\, I also like the Ending the Day Strong daily reflection practice\, as like burnout [00:23:00] prevention\, and I think it’s a useful way to identify if you’re missing something. So it could help you decide what kind of rest you need. \nLast fall we also had some episodes about awe and wonder\, which are other things that really help with burnout prevention. So I think those are also potentially practices you could combine. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, I love that. That kind of reminds me of\, I’ve just recently started doing something called Interstitial Journaling\, and it’s basically where you just take like 30 seconds to maybe three minutes\, when you have a moment. So it’s just in between things and you just quickly say\, “Here’s what I just worked on. Here’s what I’m about to work on\, here’s how I’m feeling.” \nAnd you just kind of like write a couple things. It’s not meant to be a long journaling session\, it’s just sort of in-between things. You record the time that you’re doing it and you say a little bit about what you did\, a little bit about what you’re going to do. You can probably say whatever you want in there really. \nBut maybe a little bit about how you’re feeling. And [00:24:00] it’s been super\, super helpful. It may not be like an end of the day reflection\, but it’s been sort of a day long reflection. It’s been kind of interesting. It’s still an experiment I’m trying\, and maybe we’ll have an episode about it sometime. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I love that. All right. Any other final thoughts before we wrap it up? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: No\, I just had so much fun with our first mailbag session. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, me too. I hope that people send us more questions and maybe like harder questions! \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: These are very friendly questions that people have been sending us. You know\, it’s like\, hit us with some hard ones! \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, how are they gonna do that? Let’s tell ’em! \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. All right. If you have a question or a hot take to share\, please email us at practicingconnection@oneop.org. You can look at the show notes if you want to see that spelled out. We want to hear from you. \nWe do see and respond to every message\, and we promise we will ask your permission [00:25:00] before including any of your questions in a future episode. \nThat’s it. Thank you for joining us. We’ll be back next week. Until then\, keep practicing. \nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/get-the-most-out-of-practicing-connection/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260402T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260402T170000
DTSTAMP:20260401T200948Z
CREATED:20260402T100030Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260401T200948Z
UID:10001752-1775109600-1775149200@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Why Unspoken Expectations Erode Trust (and How to Fix It)
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xODkwNjg4MSUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTg5MDY4ODEtd2h5LXVuc3Bva2VuLWV4cGVjdGF0aW9ucy1lcm9kZS10cnVzdC1hbmQtaG93LXRvLWZpeC1pdC5qcyUzRmNvbnRhaW5lcl9pZCUzRGJ1enpzcHJvdXQtcGxheWVyLTE4OTA2ODgxJTI2cGxheWVyJTNEc21hbGwlMjIlMjB0eXBlJTNEJTIydGV4dCUyRmphdmFzY3JpcHQlMjIlMjBjaGFyc2V0JTNEJTIydXRmLTglMjIlM0UlM0MlMkZzY3JpcHQlM0U=[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 13) \nYou’re frustrated with someone you’re collaborating with\, but you can’t quite explain why.  \nChances are\, the problem isn’t their performance – it’s the unspoken expectations neither of you knew the other had. \nMost of us walk into collaborative relationships with an unwritten rulebook\, and then feel quietly frustrated when others don’t follow it. \nThe problem? We never handed them the book. \nIn this episode of Practicing Connection\, Jessica introduces the Expectation Audit\, a simple but powerful practice rooted in organizational psychology. Drawing on research about unspoken workplace expectations\, and what Brené Brown calls “stealth expectations\,” Jessica and Erin explore why crossed wires at work are rarely about performance or personality. \nMore often\, they’re about invisible norms we’ve never made visible. \nYou’ll walk away with a practice you can use on your own or with your team to turn frustration into honest\, productive conversation. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”][00:00:00]\nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Hi\, and welcome to the Practicing Connection Podcast. I’m Erin. Today we’re talking about a tool to help with those relationships where you feel like you’re constantly dealing with crossed wires. You know that feeling\, where you’re a little let down\, but you can’t quite put your finger on what’s missing. Jessica’s going to share a practice we’re calling the “Expectation audit.” \nHi\, Jessica. I think we’ve all had those moments where we’ve felt let down by a colleague\, but can’t quite put our finger on why. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Hi\, Erin. Yeah\, exactly. We can fall into the trap of thinking that these frustrations are about the other person’s performance or their personality\, but more often than not\, they’re about unspoken expectations that we’re placing on the person. \nAnd I want to be really clear too\, this isn’t about creating a long list of demands for your coworkers or for your collaborators. It’s about making those unwritten rules of your partnership [00:01:00] visible so that you can both actually succeed. And so the project\, or the issue you’re trying to address\, can actually move forward and you can start making impacts In that issue. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. Okay\, that makes sense. It’s like you want to make sure you’re both playing the same game with the same rule book. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Right. Not using two different rule books\, yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. So let’s get into the why behind this. Where does this idea come from? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, and I wanted to say\, I love that you framed it as\, “We want to make sure we’re playing the same game.” Because when I teach about building trust\, I often tell people that when we don’t share what builds or breaks our trust\, we’re unknowingly playing games with each other. And it really erodes our ability to build good working relationships. \nSo\, back to your question\, where is this coming from? This is grounded in a concept from organizational psychology called the psychological contract. Researchers define this as\, “The set of unwritten\, informal expectations between people in a [00:02:00] working relationship\, or commonly between an employer and employee.” \nI’ve seen a lot of descriptions of this psychological contract describing a relationship between an employer and an employee. It’s sort of like an internal contract. When you think interpersonally\, it’s like an internal contract that we have. Things like\, how fast you expect an email reply versus how fast the other person thinks emails can and should be replied to. \nOr\, how much detail you want to see or hear about in project updates versus how much detail the other person might feel like they’re willing to share\, or is necessary to share. \nAre there any examples you would care to share with us right now? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes\, so I used to have this one colleague who would\, their main priority was replying to things as quickly as possible\, and it would drive me insane because then they would reply\, and then they would have four or five more ideas\, and so I would get five rapid fire emails in a row that were all conflicting and [00:03:00] different. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: This sounds like me. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: This was not you. I promise\, I would directly tell you about it if it was you! \nAnd so it was always just overwhelming. And then I would miss things because I wouldn’t see that there were new emails\, and I just always would be like\, “Oh my gosh\, can you just stop and think before you press send\, ‘Is there anything else I want to say?’” \nAnd it used to drive me insane. And unfortunately\, like we never quite resolved that before we ended up working on a project. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And did you feel like when you got that many messages\, or when you would send a message and they got back to you immediately\, did you feel like\, “Oh crap\, this person expects me to respond as quickly.” Did that ever cross your mind? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes\, it did all the time. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So it’s a lot of pressure\, yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: It is a lot of pressure\, and I think there was also just this sense of\, “Oh\, I also have to make sure that I follow up on everything.” You know\, like there was this unspoken thing of like\, “Oh\, I’m getting everything out at you\, and then I have to carry it and move it forward and make sure it’s passed back.” \nAnd you [00:04:00] know\, we really probably could have talked about that\, but I think we were both pretty swamped at the time\, so we never stopped to talk about it. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And then with all the extra information they were sending you right in between those messages that were really important for you to actually answer\, I would imagine that the message that you needed to respond to\, it just\, everything got muddier and muddier. And it was harder for you to like pick out what you actually needed to do versus not. Is that right? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, I think too\, you know\, I often would then pause\, read all of the things\, send kind of like one comprehensive message. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: And I’d really stop and pause and go\, “Okay\, wait\, am I saying everything I want to say?” I’d maybe condense it so it wasn’t as long\, because I know it’s hard to read long emails\, and I try\, I’m like a\, ‘say all the things’ person. \nSo I was like\, “Okay\, how do I make this easier for other people?” And so I think I had this expectation of\, “Oh\, this is how everybody communicates\, right?” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Oh\, we’re gonna get to that. Not to your expectation. We’re gonna get to [00:05:00] talking about that. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. And I’m realizing that it really felt like there were all these unwritten rules that both she had and I had\, and then we never talked about them. And we were just perpetually irritated with each other. I think a couple of times we had some conversations about\, “What works really well for you isn’t necessarily what works best for me\, and we can respond to things differently.” \nAnd like we never got past that. So\, I’m really excited if you have – yeah\, I would love to hear more about this. So are you also kind of talking about that idea of unwritten rules\, and like breaching trust with unwritten rules? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, it can really feel like a breach of trust. Sometimes when we have an expectation on someone that\, whether we’ve communicated that expectation or not\, if they don’t meet that it actually erodes our trust as well. So when these informal\, unwritten\, unspoken contracts are breached\, it can also lead to real burnout [00:06:00] and lower engagement too. \nSo\, I have read almost all of Brene Brown’s books\, and I like her description of this. So she calls these stealth expectations. So\, things we expect from others but haven’t actually asked for. And honestly\, Erin\, half the time we don’t even realize that we have these expectations on other people until they fail to meet them. \nSo we’re walking around with a secret rule book in our back pocket\, and we’re frustrated that no one else is reading from it. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. Oh man\, this is so true. I’m having so many thoughts. I often am in a place of\, like\, “I can tell that I’ve upset somebody\, but I don’t know why.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, me too. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Often everybody else is playing with the same rule book and I’m just like\, “What is happening here?” So it’s nice to know that it’s not just me. \nBut it can really feel like you’re trying to build something together\, but one of you is using Imperial and one of you is using metric. You’re cutting the pieces but they don’t fit together. And [00:07:00] you know\, you both think you’re completely right \, because you measured three times before you cut anything and then it still doesn’t work. \nAnd that really is sometimes how teams feel. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, and that’s also the trap. I mean\, we think that our way of working is just the way it’s done. It’s our normal\, but your normal is likely very different from your colleague’s normal. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes\, This is exactly it. I think a good example is\, my normal might be when I need something\, I send a quick Slack message to get the answer. But my teammate’s normal is to gather all of the data and send one big email at the end of the day with all of the things. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Oh gosh\, that sounds overwhelming. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Right. I could see that and\, you know\, if I’m sitting there waiting for someone to get back to me immediately\, and they’re waiting to have enough information to feel really prepared and comprehensive and strategic\, we’re both going to be super stressed out\, even though neither [00:08:00] one of us is doing something wrong. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. And that’s it. I mean\, that’s why this audit is so important. It’s not about correcting someone else’s behavior. It’s about making your normal visible\, right? What’s normal for you now becomes visible to everyone. \nSo when we don’t articulate our preferences\, we’re essentially asking people to be mind readers\, which nobody likes\, right? By doing this audit\, you’re saying\, “Hey\, this is how I’m wired. Does this work for you?” And it can shift the conversation from blame to coordination. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I love this. So often I see people getting stuck fighting about ‘the right way to do something\,’ rather than deciding together from many helpful ways how to do it. So often people just get stuck on\, ‘There’s only one correct optimal way\,’ and you know\, this is my particular axe that I have to grind because I think you limit yourself and you drive yourself crazy when everybody has to be exactly the same. \nAnd really it’s so much more [00:09:00] open\, and there’s so much more possibility to what works for us. So I love that we’re talking about this\, but walk us through the practice. How do we actually do this? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, just like any practice we share\, this is just one of many ways that you could build it. So you can do this on your own at first\, and if you like\, you can bring it into conversations with your team or your collaborators. \nSo step one is for you to identify what I’ve been calling a crossed wires relationship. So\, bring to mind a situation where working with a team member or a collaborator is feeling heavy or frustrating\, or it feels like you’re always crossing wires\, right. You’re not quite making the connection. \nSo once you have a relationship in mind\, then do a little bit of a brain dump of your unspoken expectations. So you might ask yourself\, “What am I assuming here?” And then you might write down a few things that you expect from this person\, but you’ve never actually said out [00:10:00] loud. Or maybe some things that if you’re having a hard time identifying what you’ve said out loud and what you haven’t\, you could just write down the things that you’re not getting from that person that you expected. \nAnd then you can ask yourself\, “Did I ask for this out loud?” And if I haven’t\, or if I think I have in the past\, maybe it’s time to just have a gentle reminder\, or maybe it’s time for me to verbalize this. So\, just start out by finding some things that you’ve been expecting from the person\, and then identify whether you’ve asked for it out loud or not. \nAnd then step three is checking your certainty. Look at those expectations and ask yourself\, “Well\, how would they actually know that this is your expectation? Have you vocalized it?” I know I already said that you should identify that\, but I think going this step further and asking\, “How would they have known it?” \nSo if you asked about it and maybe the last time you asked was seven months ago or longer\, maybe that’s a [00:11:00] clue for\, they don’t actually know that that’s your expectation\, that that was something communicated months ago. Possibly in passing\, possibly in the middle of a long email. \nSo keep vocalizing it. You might ask yourself\, have you really clearly vocalized it or have you just hinted? And if the answer is that\, ‘They should just know\,’ right\, that\, “Oh\, well\, we have a list of things that the team is supposed to work on\, they should just know.” Well\, that’s a stealth expectation then. You have an expectation on them that has not been clearly identified or clearly shared. \nAnd then the last step is to ensure that you are vocalizing it. And I say vocalize\, it could be written\, that’s fine. I do think that a lot of connection happens through discussion. \nAnd so if you’re vocalizing in person\, here’s what I would recommend. So admit to the person out loud that you might have been [00:12:00] unclear\, you might say\, “I realized that I might have some internal quote/unquote “rules” for how I like to receive updates that I’ve never actually shared with you. Can we check in on what would work best for both of us?” That’s why I recommend that you do this verbally if you can\, because then it invites conversation\, right? \nIf you’re just sharing it in writing\, here’s my expectation. “I realize that I have been unclear about this.” You know\, “Please do this in the future.” There’s no opening for the other person to say\, “Hey\, I didn’t realize that you needed that. I need to do it this way because I have these other three things that I have to do that are attached to it. Can we talk about this?” \nWhen you do it in writing it’s more of a one-sided thing\, and that’s why I recommend that you verbalize. So admit to the person out loud that you might’ve been unclear. And then check in with them on what would work best for both of you. Make the offer a very genuine offer. \nI would like to add\, make the offer that you want [00:13:00] to find a way where it’ll work for both of you. So this can sound a little bit formal\, but it is often a really big relief for both people. \nLike when you say\, “Hey\, I realize I never told you that I prefer text for urgent messages.” The other person will often respond with something like\, “Oh\, thank goodness. I’ve been emailing and wondering why I didn’t hear back.” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, I can imagine that even just saying\, you know\, “I realized I wasn’t clear about this\,” or\, “I realize I never told you immediately\,” might decrease the temperature or the pressure in a room\, and it stops being about a communication failure and starts being more about process. More about\, “Oh\, how do we build a system that works for us? How do we make sure we’re operating with the same instruction manual?” \nI think what I really love about step four is it also gives an opportunity and an invitation from you to the other person to share what they need. It’s a way to [00:14:00] kindly ask for what your needs are\, but also invite the other person into expressing their needs. \nAnd then you can have this kind of\, you know\, when they – I’m sorry\, I’m immediately thinking about couples counseling where you’re saying\, ‘it’s not me versus them. It’s us versus a problem.’ And I think while you maybe work with your partner\, most likely don’t\, a lot of people don’t\, you still have a working relationship with a person. \nAnd then this framing really is\, “How do we have us against the problem of our miscommunication?” Not\, “You are doing it wrong\, and I’m right about everything\,” which I think that’s sometimes the fear of\, “I can’t express this expectation because then I’m being bossy or I’m being overbearing\,” or I don’t know\, that they’re capable of meeting my needs. \nAnd then it takes all of the pressure off of forcing another person to do what you want\, and more inviting a conversation. So I really appreciate how you framed this audit. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, thank you so much. And you know\, the final step of inviting their [00:15:00] perspective\, because it’s not just about you\, but it’s about finding a pathway that fits both of you. You might even ask them\, “Take this opportunity.” \nThis is sort of a little hidden step five. Or you could call it a ‘stealth step five.’ \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Stealth mode. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, if I use this opportunity to maybe ask them like\, “Do you have some unspoken rules for a good workflow? Like\, things that maybe I haven’t been meeting\, or ways that you like to operate?” \nNow I’m not saying just because someone says\, “Oh yeah\, I want to operate this way\, this way\, and this way\,” it doesn’t mean that you have to do what they say because they’re the person who spoke up and said what their needs were. \nI really want to be clear\, this is about both of you finding something that will work for the two of you\, or for the many team members – I say two because that’s been sort of the context of our examples here – but you could ask them like\, “What am I missing that might make things easier for you?” \nIt’s about meeting your needs\, while also co-creating a better process together\, so [00:16:00] really meeting each other’s needs. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. And that’s what makes a good team. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Thanks so much for sharing this practice with us\, Jessica. I love it\, and it’s such a great way to turn that ‘crossed wires’ feeling into a moment of connection\, and building community with each other. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: You are so welcome. I love talking about interpersonal relationships. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That’s good. We talk about them a lot. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I know\, right! \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: All right\, well that’s it everybody\, that’s the episode. If you liked it\, please share with a friend or a colleague. \nWe will be back next week with a new episode. And until then\, keep practicing. \n[00:17:00]\nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/why-unspoken-expecations-erode-trust/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260326T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260326T170000
DTSTAMP:20260401T183007Z
CREATED:20260326T100005Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260401T183007Z
UID:10001749-1774504800-1774544400@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Encouragement That Works: How to Give a Real Pep Talk
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xODg0NjcyMSUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTg4NDY3MjEtZW5jb3VyYWdlbWVudC10aGF0LXdvcmtzLWhvdy10by1naXZlLWEtcmVhbC1wZXAtdGFsay5qcyUzRmNvbnRhaW5lcl9pZCUzRGJ1enpzcHJvdXQtcGxheWVyLTE4ODQ2NzIxJTI2cGxheWVyJTNEc21hbGwlMjIlMjB0eXBlJTNEJTIydGV4dCUyRmphdmFzY3JpcHQlMjIlMjBjaGFyc2V0JTNEJTIydXRmLTglMjIlM0UlM0MlMkZzY3JpcHQlM0U=[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 12) \nA good pep talk isn’t just about saying “you got this.”  \nWhen done right\, it can reignite purpose\, build trust\, and help others find strength when things get tough. \nEveryone needs encouragement – but great encouragement does more than make people feel good. It helps them believe in their ability to meet challenges\, connect to purpose\, and keep going when things get difficult. \nIn this episode of Practicing Connection\, Jessica and Erin dig into the science behind effective pep talks\, inspired by research from Harvard Business Review and Motivating Language Theory. \nErin walks listeners through how to write a meaningful pep talk using three key ingredients: direction\, empathy\, and purpose. \nYou’ll also learn how to bring these ideas into everyday encouragement\, whether you’re leading a team or supporting a friend through something hard. \nListen in to learn how the right words – offered with care – can make all the difference. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nThe Science of Pep Talks by Daniel McGinn\nSeason 7\, Episode 11: Humble on Purpose: A Practice for Better Decisions \nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]JESSICA BECKENDORF: [00:00:00] Hello. Thanks for listening to the Practicing Connection podcast. I’m Jessica. Today we’re gonna be talking about the power of encouragement\, and Erin’s gonna be sharing a practice with us on how to write a pep talk. \nHi Erin. How are you? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Hi Jessica. I’m having a wonderful day. I just got the best message: \nSo I recently thanked someone for inspiring me with their bravery in a meeting. I’ve been trying to call out bravery when I see it. And their response to me was so sweet\, they just said that they did it because they were trying to be more like me. I don’t know if you just saw this\, but my jaw just dropped. \nI was like\, “Oh\, that’s so nice!” It was like\, honestly\, one of the nicest things somebody’s told me and it just made my day. It was really magical. To have somebody notice something that I’ve been trying to grow in and then be inspired\, and then tell me that I inspired [00:01:00] them. Like\, what is this?! \nI was trying to figure out\, what is the word that describes this feeling? I don’t know. Opposite of loneliness. And then I got stuck. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, I think the word that you might be looking for here is encouraging. It’s encouraging. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. That’s it. It is embarrassing to be the person teaching a practice in the encouragement episode and not realizing you’re talking about encouragement\, but hey\, yeah\, we’re here. \nWe don’t need to be perfect. And it was kind of funny. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, let’s talk about this. Why did you think about bringing up encouragement today? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Sure. Well\, honestly\, I wanted to talk about something fun. You know\, we’ve been writing a lot of really great practicasts about trying new things\, new skills and being brave\, and this is exciting and this is [00:02:00] transformative. \nBut it can also be really hard. Right? And it can be stretching and uncomfortable\, and I wanted to kind of equip people with a practice to help them\, a) keep going when things get hard\, b)\, encourage other people to keep going when things get hard. But also it really feels good. I don’t know how many pep talks you’ve given\, but as someone who has given many\, it feels really good to give a pep talk and then just see people like to be refilled with joy and be like\, “Oh yeah\, we are capable of hard things. We can do this.” \nAnd like when you’re stuck\, it feels so good when someone helps unlock extra energy or capacity or like a lens you hadn’t viewed it through before. I’m getting ahead of myself a little bit and I’m sorry\, but I think pep talks are misunderstood and underrated. People think about like sports movies and not about really meaningful human interaction\, which is what I think pep talks actually are. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I am gonna take it [00:03:00] one more step and say\, “I don’t do pep talks\, I do pep rallies.” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Ooh. Okay. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: No\, I’m totally\, I’m totally kidding. But I actually have never thought about what I do when I’m encouraging others as “pep talking” them. I’ve been told by others that I’ve inspired them or that I’ve helped to unlock those things that you’re talking about. \nBut I never really thought about it as me incorporating elements of what a pep talk might be. I just\, I think I don’t like to see people be stuck\, and I like to try to help where I can. And so with that\, I mean really good encouragement is nice to receive\, but it can be a lot more. \nI feel like I’ve always thought that I was encouraging them\, but I think in what you’re saying with really good encouragement done right in sort of\, I love the language of pep talk\, but in this kind of pep talk kind of way\, it can be a lot more. It can give people what they need to keep going\, and [00:04:00] help people unite around a shared goal\, which is really important for the work that we do. A shared goal\, maybe even some shared value or defining some shared truths. \nAnd it can acknowledge the cost of the work and still give people the hope that it matters. So it’s really powerful stuff if you know what you’re doing\, or apparently\, even if you don’t\, sometimes. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes\, it has powerful potential\, and I would like you to cash in on the powerful potential that you have to encourage yourself and others. \nI know that we sound a little bit like this is a magical fix all\, that’s not what we’re saying. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Oh\, no\, no\, no. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: But I do think it is more powerful than we let it be. We let it be for sports and sales\, and we forget about it for the rest of us. But the rest of us deserve good encouraging pep talks too. \nSo\, let’s get into it. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. So encouragement can come in so many forms\, and let’s get into talking a little bit about [00:05:00] why pep talks. Why are we talking about pep talks today? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, we’re talking about pep talks\, I mean\, selfishly\, because I am the like unofficial pep talker in my workplace. And that has had the side outcome of me not receiving a lot of pep talks. \nAnd so I somewhat selfishly want to teach more people how to give a good pep talk\, because I want people to give me good pep talks. This is perhaps very selfish of me. But also\, to tell you the truth\, I really thought I knew everything you needed to know about how to give a big good pep talk. I was like\, “I’ve got this down.” \nYou know\, I’ve like jokingly included it on my unofficial duties list when I’m onboarding and offboarding places. Like it has regularly been a major component of my work to be the person giving pep talks. So I really thought I had it down. \nAnd then I did the practice that you taught us about intellectual humility\, and realized [00:06:00] that I assumed that I knew everything there was to know about pep talks\, and I was like\, “Oh\, dear\, I don’t think that’s actually true.” And so then I did research because of that practice\, and that’s why we’re talking about pep talks today. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I am beaming right now\, since this is audio-only\, I have to describe what my face looks like right now. Because did you just say that you did a practice from our own podcast about intellectual humility\, and that it helped you\, you learned something from it? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. \nIt’s like\, you know\, when you take your own advice\, when you take your partner\, your coworker’s advice\, and then you’re like\, “Oh\, they were right.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Most of the time the practices we bring to this podcast are things that we either have tried\, or we bring into our work periodically\, or we bring into our practices periodically. \nAnd so that one was one that I had brought forward. [00:07:00] I’ve practiced it in the past\, not in maybe exactly the same way that I put it forward in the podcast\, but I’ve practiced versions of it. And so you were in the room with me while we were talking about it\, and it does like\, tickle me a little bit that\, you know\, that practice was helpful to somebody that I know. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, it was great. Okay. So I’m actually really excited because as much as it was like uncomfortable to admit that I didn’t know everything I thought I knew\, I found out a bunch of really cool stuff. \nSo\, I think the most useful thing was\, I found a Harvard Business Review article called The Science of Pep Talks\, by Daniel McGinn. \nAnd in it\, McGinn talked about motivating language theory. I had never heard of this. So this is a theory based on research done by Jacqueline and Milton Mayfield at Texas A&M International University. And they have been studying what they call ‘motivating language’ for years in [00:08:00] sports\, business\, research\, science\, and the military. \nAnd they found that effective pep talks can have huge impacts on individuals and groups and their ability to do challenging things. For all of those groups. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, so I mean\, this is interesting because sports\, business\, research\, science and the military\, those are very different kinds of groups. I’m very interested to hear about how this kind of research can work across all these disciplines. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. And this is actually what I love about their theory is they don’t say that the same thing works for every single person. \nIn motivating language theory\, pep talks are made of three different parts: direction giving\, empathetic language and meaning making language. We’ll define those in a minute\, and what they found is that different groups need different combinations of these parts in order for it to be effective. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, that makes a lot of sense. \n[00:09:00] Let’s talk a little bit more about the three parts. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Sure. So direction giving is explaining how to do the task at hand. This can include instructions. It also includes what they describe as uncertainty-reducing language\, which I think is just such a fun phrase. A lot of what that is is like\, “Do people know what they’re doing? Are we all on the same page? Is it clear? Is it explicitly clear?’ \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: You know\, sometimes everybody thinks they’re on the same page and they’re not. So that’s what they mean by direction giving. And they have said that if you’re in a new group or a newly forming group\, direction comes up more often. \nBut if you’re in a group with experts or teams that are doing things they’ve done before\, they might not need as much of this component as a brand new team might. So that’s something to keep in mind for how much of this component do I need to include. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So the [00:10:00] direction giving element of this is just really practical\, focused on making sure everyone knows what their role is\, what the job is\, what they’re there to do. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes\, that’s it. Exactly. \nThe second element is empathetic language. This is where you engage in the humanity of the people involved. You bring in praise\, you bring in encouragement. You acknowledge how hard a task actually is. And acknowledging the challenge piece is often the part that people leave out of a pep talk. \nA lot of people think that if you acknowledge something is hard\, people will be discouraged or give up. Often the opposite. If you don’t acknowledge the challenges\, pep talks can come off as more like gaslighting than encouragement. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, I’ve seen this over and over again. I’ve seen a lot of leaders learn the hard way that not naming the challenges\, like kind of skipping over them like you’re describing\, even if they do it [00:11:00] unintentionally – I need to add that\, because I don’t think everyone’s out there doing this on purpose. Like\, “I’m going to just skip over the challenges and maybe they won’t notice.” I don’t think very many people are actually doing that. \nBut that is a really good way to destroy trust\, skipping over the challenges and not naming them\, not acknowledging that something’s challenging. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: There’s something really\, really discouraging\, at least to me\, and I’ve heard this from a bunch of other people too\, that when you get a talk and your leaders don’t even acknowledge the cost\, there’s almost part of you that thinks\, “Do they even know? Do they even know this is hard? When they say we can do it\, do they actually know what we need to do to do this?” \nOr are they just imagining that we can do it and they don’t actually know what it takes\, so they’re lying. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Or is it like hard for me\, but not for them\, and they’re just not in reality right now? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so it can be really empowering for someone to say\, “Hey\, I know that this is [00:12:00] so hard. It’s hard because of this. It’s hard because of this. It’s hard because of this. And I am confident that we can still accomplish it. And I believe we can still accomplish it so much more if you start by talking about all of the reasons why it is almost harder than it needs to be.” \nYou know\, that’s a much more powerful statement. \nOkay\, so the third element is meaning-making language. This is where you talk about why the work you’re doing is important. You can link it with your purpose or your missions. \nAnd often it’s a place where people will share stories\, either about the impact that previous work has done\, or why we all care about the thing that we’re doing. Meaning making is useful in almost every situation. And you may need it less if the end goal of the work is super obvious. \nThe example in the paper\, I think is they were talking about a team that was doing medical [00:13:00] research on how to cure MLS. It’s a pretty significantly debilitating disease\, and a lot of the people who were doing the research had family members who had died of it. \nSo that’s one where like you don’t need to encourage the end goal. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: goal. It’s kind of obvious\, right? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. The end goal’s really obvious. And you know\, sometimes it’s like the opposite. They had this other example where they were talking about\, okay\, if you work in a fast food restaurant and you need to give somebody a pep talk\, the end goal is going to be really\, really different than someone who’s working on medical research\, right? \nAnd so this is why they talk about meaning-making being the hardest part of the pep talk. Because you have to answer the question\, “Is this worth it?” And you have to give an answer that you actually believe. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So if you don’t\, you can’t give the pep talk. If you don’t believe that it’s worth it\, right. I mean\, that’s kind of a\, it’s a deal breaker. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. I mean you [00:14:00] can\, but they can tell. And that’s the thing\, like if you wanna give an effective pep talk\, you’ve got to believe the things coming out of your mouth. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes. authenticity is something we talk about a lot. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: And I genuinely think this is why so many people think that pep talks aren’t effective\, because they haven’t had good ones. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: So I think the thing that comes up for me in this\, the questions that I have is just like\, “Well\, what if I’m a leader\, and I don’t know if it’s possible?” \nThat’s a hard question. You can say that it’s scary\, it’s vulnerable. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I mean\, one thing I like to ask a lot\, and I just wonder if maybe sometimes the situation calls for you acknowledging that you don’t know. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: If it’s possible\, or maybe sometimes the situation\, and I would say probably a good chunk of the time\, the situation might be where instead of saying\, “I don’t know if it’s possible\,” it might be saying what is possible. \nI think acknowledging [00:15:00] what’s hard about making it possible is really important\, but maybe turning around and saying\, “And what is possible…” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I think that’s great. That is a good segue into really building people up. Like\, you don’t necessarily have to go through these three phases in order and then never go back. \nSo if you’re talking about the meaning-making and saying\, “This is worth it\, this is what we can achieve\, if we achieve it. I don’t entirely know if we’ll get all the way there\, but here’s what we have.” And then you can go back to the subtle direction-giving and you say\, “We have this person and they’re working on this. We have this person\, they hit this out of the park every single time. We have this person and they’re the best at communication and this per -” you know? \nYou can really build people up and compliment people and say\, “Okay\, considering all of what we have\, we can get somewhere\, right?” Like what can we achieve with [00:16:00] what we have? \nAnd you can positively reframe it in a way that doesn’t feel like gaslighting\, if you are thoughtful. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right. Right. Well let’s get started with the practice itself. Please walk us through\, kick it off. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. The start of this practice is\, think about a group or an individual that’s struggling with a challenge. This could be a team you work on. This could be a coworker\, this could be yourself. Think of that person\, and then before you are responding to an email or saying something\, here are some questions you can ask yourself to help you figure out what do they need to hear\, what’s going to help them with what they’re struggling with. \nSo the first area is direction giving. And that’s just\, do they know what needs to happen next? So some questions that you are asking yourself: “Do they know what they’re trying to achieve? Who is [00:17:00] doing what? Do they have what they need to do it?” \nAnd I want to be clear here\, you are not asking the other person these questions. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes. I know this is confusing. That would not sound like a pep talk at all. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That would sound like accusations\, right? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right. But you’re using the answers to determine what they need to hear\, right? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Or you might be answering these questions based on what you know about the situation\, \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Sure\, yes. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: “What’s my assessment of whether they know what they’re trying to achieve? What’s my assessment of do they seem to understand who is doing what\, what the roles are\, and what’s my assessment of do they have what they need to do it?” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. I will fully tell you\, I often find myself giving pep talks to people who are\, after a meeting\, coming to me and being like\, “Erin\, I’m panicking. What are we doing?” \nOr they’ll tell me a situation of like\, “I was in this meeting\, we had this conversation…” And [00:18:00] so there’s often context that I get from another person before I’m giving them a pep talk\, and so I can kind of discern a lot just from listening. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right. \nIt sounds like you might ask these questions\, right? You don’t have to like pre-prepare your entire pep talk before you go in\, you can actually go into a meeting of a group for whom your experience of that group has been that they might need a pep talk. \nAnd you can ask these questions if you don’t know the answers to them. And in the moment you could say something like\, “Are we all in agreement on what we’re trying to achieve? Do you all feel clear on that?” And they’re all like\, “Yeah\, yeah\, we feel clear.” \n“Do you all understand what the roles are? Who’s going to do what? Do you all get that?” And they might be like\, “Yeah\, we totally get that.” And then you might say\, “Okay\, do you have what you need to do it?” And then one person’s like\, “Well\, we’ve really been struggling with needing this tool\,” or\, “We’ve really been struggling with the process for X. \nAnd so then you could start your pep talk by saying\, “It sounds like you’re really clear on your objectives and roles. Good job. Because that’s [00:19:00] a huge hurdle. But you need some tools to help.” \nSo let’s move on then to the next set of questions. The empathetic language. You can literally do this in a meeting\, or you can make these assessments ahead of time\, and kind of preplan your talk. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. And I think you bring up a really good point there\, which is\, often the picture we have in our head of a pep talk is from a movie. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Right. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: You know\, it’s like a coach at a sports movie\, at the championship\, and they give this big – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: It’s Ted Lasso. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: It’s Ted lasso\, or it’s like you’re watching a movie about salespeople. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: They use an example of\, like Glen\, Gary Glen\, something. I can’t remember. This is not a thing that I have seen. \nOr you watch someone like\, “Yeah\, we can make all our sales\,” and it feels very culty occasionally\, and you’re like\, “I don’t know about that.” So I think part of my hope of giving you these questions and equipping you\, and what you brought up is that a pep talk doesn’t have to be just a talk. \nIt’s more about bringing focused [00:20:00] energy. Bringing this sense of like\, “Okay\, what do people need and how can I help them get there? And how can I see things that they can’t see right now and how can I communicate it to them?” \nAnd so it isn’t necessarily like\, ‘I talk for five minutes\, that’s the pep talk.’ It might be a pep talk conversation where we have a little back and forth\, and that’s what you brought in and I love that you did that. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I’m glad that we established that. So the direction-giving questions: Do they know what they’re trying to achieve? Who is doing what? Do they have what they need to do it? \nLet’s go into the empathetic language questions. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. So some questions that might be helpful to ask are\, What’s going well? Is there someone you can compliment or thank for the work that they’ve already done? What is making it difficult? Does this team believe that they can do it? Why or why not? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And\, Do you believe they can do it? I would imagine is also helpful. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. Mm-hmm. And\, Why or [00:21:00] why not? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Right. You know\, these are uncomfortable questions to like full-on face\, and this is where you get to practice your bravery skills. Full-on asking\, “Do we think they can do it? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: It’s scary and it’s hard\, and if they’re in the weeds\, this is how you can support them by asking that question they can’t ask themselves. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I think this is where some of your answers\, or the way you communicate this to the group might need to be a little bit delicate\, right? \nSo if part of what’s making it difficult is that they’re down to one third the amount of staff\, and they’ve had not only tons of work put on them that the other people were doing\, but also a new big project just came up and they’re saying that we don’t have the capacity to do this – then coming back in and saying\, “But I believe you can do it” can feel very disingenuous. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, not great.[00:22:00] And so\, you know\, I think there’s something to be said too about\, you’re not trying to lie here. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: You are not trying to tell them it’s impossible. Maybe the pep talk they need to hear is\, “Wow\, you have been given so much to do and so few resources to do it. The fact you have been able to do as much as you have been able to do is really impressive and I’m so proud of you.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: “And I’m sorry that I can’t give you any more to make this happen.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nThen maybe this is where it’s like\, “Let’s talk about what is possible right now.” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. And unfortunately\, this is also the part that comes with practice\, right? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: You’re not going to perfectly hit it out of the park every time. \nYou’re not going to say the perfect thing every time. But the good news is\, you don’t have to be perfect. Sometimes all people need to hear is just like\, “Wow\, that is so much\, that is so hard.” Like\, they just need acknowledgement that they’re not making it up\, they’re not crazy\, that it is [00:23:00] unreasonable or it is overwhelming. \nAnd sometimes that’s enough to just kind of like keep them floating until we can get them more resources. Pep talks aren’t about magically fixing it for people. It’s about being present with them and helping them figure stuff out. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: So the empathetic language questions are\, What is going well? Is there someone you can compliment\, or think\, what is making it difficult? Do you believe they can do it? And\, Why or why not? And do they believe they can do it? And\, Why or why not? \nLet’s go on to the meaning-making questions. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. This is where we’re answering the question\, “Why is it important to keep going?” \nSo good questions to ask are\, “What is made possible by doing this hard thing?” \nThis takes some imagination. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. What is made possible toward that kind of end goal that the group has been working toward. To begin with\, a lot of times\, by the time you’ve made [00:24:00] it here\, you kind of have a sense for what that overarching goal is. \nAnd so then toward the big goal that this group has been assembled or this team has been assembled to affect\, “What’s made possible by doing this hard thing?” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. And then another good question to ask is\, “What hard things have you done successfully in the past?” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: “When has it been this hard before\, and you’ve still managed to do it?” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Everyone has a story about that. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Right. And sometimes it’s like\, “It was this hard before and we didn’t get all the way there\, but something good still happened.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: “And we were able to build off it and get to somewhere better.” \nIt’s hard to give more specific advice about the meaning-making language because it’s really context specific. It’s like\, what is meaningful to this team? What is meaningful to these people? And this is going to require you spending time getting to know people\, [00:25:00] knowing a little bit about what are the shared values\, what do we all care about here? What are we trying to build together? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: You can ask them these questions also\, and then develop what you say based on what those answers are. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes\, exactly. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, thank you so much for guiding us through this\, Erin\, these are really good questions. But a whole pep talk\, it’s not a ton of questions\, but there’s enough questions where it could feel like a lot. I’m just going to leave that in there. What is the smallest thing that someone can do to practice encouragement or pep talk? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, that’s a great point. Okay. I hadn’t realized how hard pep talks are until I tried to\, like\, outline how to write a good one. So I’ll say this. I think the most important thing you can ask yourself if you only have a little bit of capacity is\, “What does this person or team really need right now? Is it direction\, empathy\, or purpose?” \nAnd then keep it [00:26:00] really simple and really short. If they need direction\, make sure everybody knows what they’re doing. If they need empathy\, say something like\, “I know this is hard\, I believe in you. You can do it.” Or\, “If you’ve done hard things before\, I believe you can do this too.” \nif it’s purpose\, that one’s a little bit harder for me to just like\, whip out one sentence\, but\, “This is worth the effort we’re putting in.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Or even thinking about the direction-giving questions\, “You guys are so on track with everything. Let’s see what we can do about getting you the tools you need\, or how we can put our heads together and make sure that you’ve got everything you need.” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. One final thought. You don’t have to be perfect in order for it to make an impact. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nWell\, that’s it for this episode. Thanks so much for joining us. If you enjoy the episode\, click the share button in your podcast app to share it with a friend [00:27:00] or a colleague. We’ll be back next week with a new episode. Until then\, keep practicing. \nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/how-to-give-a-real-pep-talk/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260319T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260319T170000
DTSTAMP:20260406T033746Z
CREATED:20260319T100035Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260406T033746Z
UID:10001748-1773900000-1773939600@oneop.org
SUMMARY:How to Grow Your Courage for Collaboration
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xODg0NjQ1MSUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTg4NDY0NTEtaG93LXRvLWdyb3cteW91ci1jb3VyYWdlLWZvci1jb2xsYWJvcmF0aW9uLmpzJTNGY29udGFpbmVyX2lkJTNEYnV6enNwcm91dC1wbGF5ZXItMTg4NDY0NTElMjZwbGF5ZXIlM0RzbWFsbCUyMiUyMHR5cGUlM0QlMjJ0ZXh0JTJGamF2YXNjcmlwdCUyMiUyMGNoYXJzZXQlM0QlMjJ1dGYtOCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRnNjcmlwdCUzRQ==[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 11) \nCollaboration takes more than skills and schedules—it takes the courage to step outside your comfort zone with other people. Bravery isn’t just about big\, dramatic moments—it also shows up in everyday choices\, like meeting someone new\, stepping into an unfamiliar space\, or staying curious when you feel uncomfortable. \nIn this episode\, Jessica and Erin explore how to build everyday courage for collaboration\, using skills like curiosity\, empathy\, and intellectual humility. Drawing on the Greater Good Science Center’s Bridging Differences Playbooks\, Erin shares a practice called “Expand Your Views & Circles” to help you gently stretch your comfort zone\, meet new people\, and grow your relational bravery over time. You’ll walk away with simple\, practical steps you can take to be just a little braver in your community and your work. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\n\n\nThe Greater Good Science Center Building Briges Playbooks\nVIA Character Strengths\nSeason 7\, Episode 8 – Turning Conflict Into Collaboration\nSeason 7\, Episode 11 – Humble on Purpose: A Practice for Better Decisions \nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]JESSICA BECKENDORF: [00:00:00] Hello. Thanks so much for listening to the Practicing Connection Podcast. I’m Jessica. Today we’ll be talking about everyday bravery and how to build your courage\, and Erin’s gonna be sharing a practice with us. Hi Erin\, how are you? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Hi Jessica. I’m great. I’ve been brushing up on my bravery knowledge this week to prepare for this episode because I’m trying to not assume I know everything. And it has me very excited about being uncomfortable. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, that’s not a sentence that I hear very often\, especially as someone who brings improv into my work with groups\, but even just on a day-to-day basis\, I’d say that statement is pretty rare. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. I am surprised it’s coming out of my mouth to be honest\, but I think\, you know\, learning about bravery has made me excited because that’s\, you’re gonna talk about this later\, but that’s kind of where you can build it. It is being uncomfortable\, so it’s exciting. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: All right\, [00:01:00] well let’s get into it. Why are we talking about bravery today? That sounds like I’m accusing you of something. \nI’ll say that a little softer. Why are we talking about bravery today\, Erin? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Well\, it’s kind of your fault. and lovingly. Just kidding. I mean\, it is. I love it. Inspired by you. That’s better than saying it’s your fault. We’ve been talking about two things a lot recently. One is collaboration and two is your very favorite framework\, the VIA character strengths. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes\, I do love it. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: For good reasons. I’m learning. The more I dig\, the more I’m like\, “Oh\, this is actually very interesting. I get it\, Jessica.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I knew you’d like it. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I knew it. Okay. So we’ve been sharing lots of different practices for building your collaboration skills. You can check out our episodes on conflict and intellectual humility. We can probably link those in the show notes. \nAnd all of the things that we’ve been talking about in terms of collaboration skills are things that require courage\, and require you [00:02:00] to do things that are maybe uncomfortable. \nAnd I’ve been thinking a lot about how feeling uncourageous is maybe a barrier to working in collaboration with others. And so I’ve been really asking myself the question\, “How do you build your courage?” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Hmm. Just knowing what I know about the character strengths\, you know\, when you’re not feeling courageous. It’s hard to be vulnerable. And vulnerability is also a requirement for any collaboration\, for any relationship. So I love\, as you might imagine\, I love this idea of building courage. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, me too. I think there’s something very optimistic about the idea that you don’t have to be perfect at everything. That you can grow. \nAnd still learn and do things. So I did a little searching and found some really excellent resources from the Greater Good Science Center. Specifically\, they have published several Bridging Differences playbooks that I really love\, because they’re [00:03:00] not explaining things to you\, they’re giving practices to try on things. \nAnd it’s all about how do you build bridges with people who are different than you? How do you navigate tensions\, which I think is a huge part of the collaboration work that we’ve been talking about. So we’ll also link these playbooks in the show notes\, and we’ll be going through one of the practices they recommend later in the episode. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, I’m excited to dig into this. Erin\, can you tell us a little bit more about the practice you’ll be sharing and why you chose it? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. Well\, I started this whole process by looking into courage generally\, and interestingly\, the VIA Character Strengths describe courage\, not as a specific strength\, but as a category of several strengths of virtue\, and you practice it with the skills of bravery\, perseverance\, honesty\, and zest. \nSadly\, we’re only talking about bravery today\, because there’s not enough time to talk about all four of them. \nBut someday we’ll circle back to [00:04:00] perseverance\, honesty\, and zest\, because they’re fabulous. So bravery is\, we’re talking about bravery specifically because it’s a skill about acting\, even when you’re afraid. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. You know\, I’ve actually often been told\, actually just this last weekend again\, in fact\, that I am brave. \nSo people were\, there’s something called strength spotting. So people have\, over my life\, done strength spotting with me where they’ve told me that I’m brave. What’s funny though is I don’t really think of myself as brave. But I have told people that often to me\, the kind of risk that I’m taking is worth the reward. \nSo it’s about acting even when you’re afraid. So that I’m not like going into things fearless\, because I have had people say\, you know\, “You seem so fearless\,” which is so funny to me because I am not fearless. Not even a little bit. \nI am full of all kinds of fears\, but I do [00:05:00] do things despite my fears. But when I’m told that I’m being brave\, I think a lot of people think of bravery as like really big moments\, really big acts. Like\, “Oh\, that person showed so much bravery when they went and helped somebody who was just in that accident\, it was fiery and they pulled them out.” \nIt can be those moments. It certainly is those moments. But when I’ve been told I’m brave\, it has not been about things like that. It’s been about things that I might call\, like\, “social bravery\,” like being willing to talk to someone that I’ve never met\, or cold calling or networking\, or even just trying new things and enjoying the ride. \nAnd you know\, I know that bravery and zest are stronger strengths for me in that whole VIA classification\, but they’re not my top five. I think zest is in my top seven. Which would be more related to sort of enjoying the ride or the adventure\, or pushing through your fears\, because there’s an adventure\, or because it represents some sort of newer novel thing. \nBut [00:06:00] when people think of bravery\, I think many of them think of people like firefighters or soldiers showing bravery in the line of duty. And it can be so much more than that. \nThat was a lot I just gave you. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: You did give me a lot\, and I love that you’re so enthusiastic about this\, because it means I do less of the explaining. And you hit on one of the things that I really wanted to talk about\, which is\, bravery has multiple components. There’s that very physical bravery of running into a burning building like a firefighter does. That is very brave. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: We’re not saying that that’s not bravery. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I’m not sure that that’s the kind of bravery I would exhibit. Right. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I haven’t been in that situation. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. I mean\, same. I haven’t been in that situation. I don’t like to speculate. I certainly know that I don’t have the training to do that without\, I don’t know\, there being my kid there or something\, you know? \nBut I think the most important thing to get at here is not asking yourself whether or not you’d run into a burning building. [00:07:00] But recognizing that bravery isn’t just running into a burning building\, it’s also taking a risk in a social setting. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: It’s also taking a risk\, even intellectually\, we talked about this in our episode where we talked about intellectual humility\, right? That’s a risk to say\, “Maybe I’m wrong.” So I think there’s a lot of ways that you can be brave. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And vulnerability is brave. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, exactly. And I think we’re talking today specifically more about relational bravery or intellectual bravery. Because I think people talk about that less. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. I think also\, you know\, when I was trying to decide what practice to bring to the table today\, I was thinking about\, “Okay\, how do we help people continue to take actions even when they’re scared?” \nBecause that’s what bravery is\, right? But I don’t want people going out there terrifying themselves or making themselves scared. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: We [00:08:00] don’t need to be adrenaline junkies either\, right? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Exactly. And you know\, maybe some people want to practice their bravery by going on\, I don’t know\, something safe enough\, like a rollercoaster. And maybe that is helpful for them. Maybe that’s helpful for training their body. \nBut today I want to talk about training your social discomfort muscles\, because what we know about discomfort is\, it can feel a lot like fear. And so if you train yourself to continue taking actions\, to continue choosing to do things when you’re uncomfortable\, your brain can kind of help you remember that when you’re afraid too. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Oh\, this is really interesting. Well\, let’s get started. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Sure. So the practice I’m sharing today is called Expand Your Views and Circles. Specifically\, it’s very much influenced by the Greater Good Guide I mentioned earlier\, and I added some bits\, because we always add some bits here. \nAnd it’s designed by the [00:09:00] Greater Good Science Center to help you build your relational bravery\, using curiosity\, intellectual humility\, patience\, and empathy. Which is a lot of little buzzwords\, but we’re going to dig into it\, and it’s going to be fun. \nSo step one is you start by noticing your own activities. We’re thinking here about a community that you’re a part of. So where do you feel most at home in your community? Who do you tend to spend time with? What perspectives dominate your conversations? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Now\, Erin\, could that be a community of interest\, a community of geography? What kind of community are you talking about? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Any community you’re a part of\, I think. Many people may find it helpful to think about the community that they do work in or with. But it is also helpful I think if you don’t have a lot of free time in your working hours that you can allocate however you want. \nSometimes it’s more helpful to think about your personal life\, like [00:10:00] what is the community you live in\, and you can do this practice either in your personal life or in your work life. And either community will benefit from you doing the practice. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Okay. So step one was noticing your activities. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Let’s go into step two. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yep. Step two is to consider how you can intentionally step outside of your comfort zone and meet new individuals you don’t regularly connect with. \nWhen I first tried to think of how I could do that\, I got really stuck. I was like\, “Well\, I work for a university\, so I can go to just literally any part of campus and I’m allowed to be there.” \nAnd then I recognized that not everybody works for university. So I did a little bit of brainstorming for you about ways you can meet new ideas and people and environments. One place to consider is your public library. A lot of public libraries have free community classes\, and you can learn about [00:11:00] people who care about stuff that you don’t care about. \nAnd they’re intending it to be informational\, so they don’t expect you to come in agreeing with them\, which can be a really helpful first step. Local community centers also similarly have a lot of programming like that. \nAnother one that I love\, because I’m from Milwaukee\, is does your community have any street festivals that you’ve never been to? Milwaukee is somewhat notorious for having a festival every weekend\, almost all year round. \nIs anybody hosting a book club? There’s a bar in my city that hosts a monthly book club\, and they bring somebody from an organization who comes and leaves a discussion about a book\, about a topic that maybe you’ve never encountered before. \nIs there someone in your community asking for volunteers? Can you go build houses\, or clean up water\, or just do something with people who care about something that maybe isn’t on your radar at all? \nAnd then one that is a little less out there\, and a little bit less group\, if you’re an [00:12:00] introvert and you’re like\, “I can’t handle a group yet\,” is to come up with a coworker that you maybe know but haven’t spent a lot of time with\, and ask them if they’d be willing to eat lunch with you. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. I love that. And one of the ways we’ve talked about this in the past and it’s something I think we could add to this list\, has been thinking about maybe certain contexts that normally would be like\, “Nah\, that’s not for me.” And maybe just dipping your toe in that water just a little bit to see\, “Maybe it’s still not for you\, but you maybe will meet some really cool people in the end.” And kind of expand your horizon a little bit. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. I actively encourage you to find something that you think you’ll be bad at. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes. Right\, right. Or\, like one or something that maybe you’re a little unsure of\, right? Not necessarily\, it doesn’t have to scare you\, but something that you’re unsure of\, like\, “I don’t know if that’s for me\, but I’ve never been to it\, so I’m gonna try it.” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. Yes. That is a [00:13:00] great attitude. So step three is to go do the thing. It is probably the hardest step\, but it’s the most simple. You just go do the thing. \nSo\, some things to keep in mind as you’re doing the thing. Your goal is to surround yourself in different ways of thinking\, being\, or doing. If you’re uncomfortable\, that’s a good thing. It means you’re doing it right. The goal is not to agree with everything you encounter. \nYou don’t have to like it\, you don’t have to feel positive about it. You just have to engage with it respectfully. And then I think this is actually the most important part. Don’t come into whatever you’re going to expecting to change people’s minds\, or criticizing where they’re coming from. And this can be hard depending on where you grew up and what you’re encountering. \nIt’s like\, “I don’t know about this.” You know\, I’ve certainly had internally very critical responses to things\, but part of the practice is [00:14:00] not trying to change everybody else’s mind about things. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And could I add to that really quick? I would also say don’t try too hard to compare your experiences. Like\, be a tourist. I mean that in the best sense of the word. \nBe a person who’s there with curiosity. You don’t need to connect your experiences with\, you know\, everyone else’s experiences. Just learn from other people’s experiences. Does that make sense for this activity? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. \nI personally would use the word ‘guest’ rather than tourist\, because – \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes\, thank you. That’s way better. I knew that it was not the right word. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes\, guest. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Because tourists are notoriously rude no matter where you go\, no matter where the tourists are from\, everybody thinks tourists are rude. So I would say guest. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I mean\, not the way I do touring around\, but – \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Sure\, sure. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I think you’re spot on that curiosity is really your best tool. Your best friend here\, like be interested. \nWhy do people like this? Why are they into this? Why might they think about this? What’s [00:15:00] important to them? \nIt may be appropriate for you to ask questions. It may not be appropriate for you to ask questions\, so you can be curious even if you can’t ask anybody why they think what they think. \nAnd if you’re asking somebody\, “Why do you think that?” Don’t say it like that. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right? Please don’t. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Maybe you could say\, “Oh\, I noticed this is really important to you. What made it so important to you?” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: You know\, really think about if I’m being curious\, am I doing it in a way that is critical when I’m asking that question out loud\, or am I inviting them to share with me. \nAnd we could have a whole episode about how to ask questions and not be a confrontational jerk\, but we don’t need to go into all of that now. I have learned the hard way\, I’ll just put it that way. \nAnd then step four is\, after you’ve come back from the experience\, and that is to just reflect on what went down. So [00:16:00] what\, if anything\, was comfortable about this new space\, and did that surprise you? What\, if anything\, was uncomfortable about the new space and was it what you were expecting to make you uncomfortable? \nAnd then finally\, what did you learn? Did anything change about your own perspective because of this experience? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Awesome. Thanks so much for guiding us through that\, Erin. I think this is a super clear way to get outside that comfort zone without doing something dangerous. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. And like\, that’s really the challenge. It took me a while to find something\, because practicing facing your fear in a way where I was like\, I spiraled for a minute\, I was like\, “I don’t know how to do this without people making risky behaviors.” \nSo this one felt like a really solid\, relational\, healthy way to do it. I will say one thing to keep in mind: as you do this exercise\, the impact it’s going to have on you [00:17:00] will depend on how much time and energy you spend on it. \nOngoingly engaging in something in your community or in multiple different things in your community\, if it’s not something that has a repeating meeting\, will have the most impact on your ability to navigate your own discomfort\, and your ability to continue doing hard things when you’re uncomfortable or afraid. \nIt will also\, the more you do it\, the more you’re going to love the parts of your community you don’t know. So you’re going to get what you put into it in this one. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, I just wish I lived in a city like Milwaukee that has so many festivals. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: You’re welcome to visit anytime. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, that’s it for this episode. Thanks so much for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode\, click the share button in your podcast app to share it with a friend or a colleague. \nWe’ll be back next week with a new episode. Until then\, keep practicing. \n[00:18:00]\nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/how-to-grow-your-courage/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
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UID:10001747-1773295200-1773334800@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Humble on Purpose: A Practice for Better Decisions
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use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xODc5MzQxNCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTg3OTM0MTQtaHVtYmxlLW9uLXB1cnBvc2UtYS1wcmFjdGljZS1mb3ItYmV0dGVyLWRlY2lzaW9ucy5qcyUzRmNvbnRhaW5lcl9pZCUzRGJ1enpzcHJvdXQtcGxheWVyLTE4NzkzNDE0JTI2cGxheWVyJTNEc21hbGwlMjIlMjB0eXBlJTNEJTIydGV4dCUyRmphdmFzY3JpcHQlMjIlMjBjaGFyc2V0JTNEJTIydXRmLTglMjIlM0UlM0MlMkZzY3JpcHQlM0U=[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 10) \nWhat if the strongest person in the room is the one willing to say\, “I don’t know yet – what am I missing?”  \nIn this episode\, we practice exactly that. \nIn this week’s episode\, Erin and Jessica discuss intellectual humility – the willingness to recognize that what you think might be wrong\, and to make real space for other people to be right. \nTogether\, they explore how this shows up in everyday collaboration\, from project meetings to tough decisions\, and why it matters so much for psychological safety and trust at work. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nTake the free VIA Character Strengths Survey: www.viacharacter.org\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: [00:00:00] Hi\, and welcome to the Practicing Connection Podcast. I’m Erin. Today we’ll be talking about a deceptively simple skill that can change how teams and groups of collaborators think\, decide\, and disagree: intellectual humility. Jessica will be sharing a practice to help us build humility in a bit. \nHi Jessica. I’m excited to dig into this topic. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Hi\, yeah\, I mean\, who doesn’t want to be thought of as a humble person\, right? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. I feel like our Midwestern is showing a little bit. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Yeah\, that’s fine. Oh boy! \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Oh golly! All right. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, you’ll notice I didn’t say\, “Midwest nice\,” or anything like that. I mean\, humility is a real strength\, and it’s a real thing that people think about. \nBut I want to be really clear. It’s not about putting yourself down or pretending [00:01:00] that you don’t know things that you actually do know. It’s more about recognizing that you might be wrong\, and creating space for other people to be right. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Hmm. Yeah\, I like that distinction. The phrase\, ‘I might be wrong’ is not a sentence I feel ever encouraged or rewarded for saying at work. But I’m really intrigued. \nSo let’s get into it. What do you mean? Tell us more about intellectual humility. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Let’s start with a working definition. From what I’ve found\, researchers are defining ‘intellectual humility’ I would say most simply as\, ‘The degree to which people recognize that what they think might be wrong\, or what they’re thinking might be wrong.’ \nIt’s awareness that your knowledge is partial. Your opinions are fallible and the evidence that you’re relying on might be incomplete. \nSo this is actually different from humility [00:02:00] in general. Sort of the\, I guess maybe we might say ‘capital H Humility\,’ right. The capital H humility can be about your abilities\, your status\, and many\, many other things. Intellectual humility though is more specifically about your thinking\, so your ideas\, your judgments\, your assumptions\, \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: And I would imagine that intellectually humble people aren’t necessarily wishy-washy about what they think. Can you tell us more about that\, like\, can you still have strong beliefs\, and is it like you have a strong belief and you hold it lightly enough to say\, “I might be wrong and I’m open to new evidence?” \nOr is it\, or is it something else? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: No\, I mean\, it’s pretty much exactly that\, and you can even hear it in the way people who exhibit\, you know\, intellectual humility in the way that they talk\, they might say things like\, “Here’s how it looks to me right now\,” right? That kind of leaves the door [00:03:00] open to\, how does it look to you? \n“So here’s how it looks to me right now.” Or they might say something like\, “I’m about 70% confident in this\, or 80% confident. Or they might even just ask everyone at the table\, “What am I missing?” \nAnd underneath this language is often a set of habits. Things like checking your assumptions\, intentionally seeking disconfirming information and being willing to revise your view when the evidence really calls for it. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay\, so it’s not about being indecisive or being a flip-flopper\, it’s about being honest about how sure you actually are and keeping the door\, like the door cracked for new information. \nAnd being willing to be data driven. Like when you get new data\, you adapt it into what you’re thinking. Oh\, that’s so interesting. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. And actually that’s a really great way to put it. You can still take a stand\, but you’re [00:04:00] not treating your current view as the final word on all reality. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes\, I love this. We need to stop assuming that we can give the final word on reality. That is such a great turn of phrase. Thank you for sharing that\, Jessica. \nSo you mentioned character strengths earlier. I’m assuming that this is a VIA Character Strength\, because I know you love them and you talk about them frequently\, which is good. I’m excited. They’re newer to me. So it’s fun to get all of this stuff from you. \nWhere does humility work in the VIA Framework to Connect? How does it connect with what you’re describing? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, I mean\, I have to be honest with everyone. I prompted Erin to ask me about VIA Character Strengths. If you’ve taken the VIA Strength Survey\, humility is one of the 24 character strengths. \nAnd with the humility character strength\, it’s actually about having a realistic view of your strengths and weaknesses\, and it’s about things like not needing to [00:05:00] be in the spotlight all the time and letting your work speak for itself. \nVIA places humility in the broader virtue category of temperance. So temperance is things that help you keep your ego and your impulses in check\, so that you can respond more thoughtfully instead of reactively. \nBut intellectual humility is one way that strength shows up in how we think and decide. So when you say\, “I could be wrong here and I want to hear what I might be missing\,” you’re basically putting the character strength of humility into action in your reasoning. \nSo again\, intellectual humility really focuses on one way that humility can be practiced. And this is about the way we think about our reasoning. But the overall character strength of humility is\, you know\, it’s kind of broader than that. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay\, so if someone listening has taken the VIA Strengths Assessment and saw humility on their [00:06:00] profile\, intellectual humility is just a specific everyday way that humility more broadly shows up in meetings and collaborations. \nIt’s not the entirety of the strength of humility. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Right\, but I wanted to bring it up because there’s so much research behind it\, and we know that. And so\, if you haven’t taken the assessment\, there is a free version of the survey online. We’ll put the link to it in the show notes. \nIt can be really helpful way to notice whether humility is a strength you have that you can lean into easily\, or whether it might be something that you’ll need to be a little bit more intentional about building. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. Well that’s exciting. Let’s pivot the conversation a little bit into collaborative work. What happens in a team\, or with a group of collaborators\, when there’s not a lot of intellectual humility? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Usually you’ll see people digging in as one clue. And I’ve been guilty of this myself. Disagreements might turn [00:07:00] into\, you know\, “I’m right\, you’re wrong.” \nNot that anyone actually says those words exactly\, but you might also notice people talking past each other\, or some people will stop sharing information that doesn’t fit the view that seems to be on top in the moment\, right? So if there’s a view that’s on top\, the ideas just kind of end up getting stymied. Additional ideas and additional perspectives. \nAnd conflict will become about defending your position\, instead of solving a shared problem. And that’s what\, most of the time when a team’s coming together or when collaborators are coming together\, they came together because there was a shared problem to solve. \nAnd so it ends up not being about the problem\, but instead being about you\, basically\, or being about\, you know\, each individual person trying to defend their position. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, I’ve definitely seen the instance where everyone will come to a meeting\, like they’ve almost already written a script in their head about what they’re going to say and what the other person’s going to say\, and [00:08:00] then nobody actually listens or changes their mind\, or compromises. \nAnd the absolute worst is when they’re saying the same thing a different way\, and they don’t realize that they’re saying the same thing. And then there’s like this big fight\, and it falls apart\, because you can’t even hear what the other person is saying because you’re so determined to be right and to win. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: There was a person I used to work with where we had this problem where we would get into\, I wouldn’t call any of them like real strong arguments or anything\, we were friendly with each other\, but we would get into these sort of like back and forth volleys. \nAnd after a while we realized\, and we would crack up about it\, “Wait\, we’re saying the same thing. We’re just saying it in different ways.” Like\, we are in total agreement here. \nAnd we realized that it was a pattern we had. And so if we started to have a volley\, then later on we would stop ourselves. Once we realized that this was a pattern\, we’d stop ourselves and we would start laughing and say\, “Is this one of those [00:09:00] times where we’re basically saying the same thing\, but in different ways?” So\, I mean\, that’s definitely a thing that happens. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Sure. Well\, can you tell me more? What does it look like when there is some more intellectual humility in a group setting\, what does that look like? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, we almost see the opposite\, right? So people are more willing to admit uncertainty and even come out and say\, “I’m not sure\, I’m not a hundred percent sure on this.” \nThey’re more curious about why someone sees it differently. Like\, “Oh\, that’s interesting. Can you tell me more about why you see it that way? What’s behind that?” And they’re more likely to bring in better evidence. \nSo more intellectual humility in a group or collaborative effort tends to improve the quality of decisions\, and also the quality of relationships within the group\, because people are actually seeing each other instead of talking past each other\, and choosing positions and sticking with their positions.[00:10:00]\nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. So what does this look like for a leader? Often leaders have this kind of pressure to project certainly\, or have executive presence\, or kind of have a commanding presence in a room. Like how does that interact with intellectual humility? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, I think that a leader that can exhibit intellectual humility sends really strong signals. \nSo when they say\, “Here’s my current thinking\, but I want to test it with you.” Or\, “Hey guys\, I got this wrong last time and here’s how I’m adjusting.” \nYou know\, people feel safer to speak up\, to disagree and to share information that might be uncomfortable. And there’s even research showing that this kind of humble leadership is linked with people feeling more engaged and able to thrive at work. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Oh\, that’s interesting. So a leader that exhibits intellectual humility is showing that the way they think [00:11:00] is open\, and they’re willing to revise it\, and therefore people actually participate in conversations. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, absolutely. And\, you know\, they can still make the call. Ultimately\, they make that decision\, but they’re not pretending to be infallible along the way. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. Okay. I like that. That’s exciting. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: By the way\, them not pretending to be infallible\, that’s what invites people in to share more perspectives and to give them more information to make that better decision. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That’s an important detail. So before we started recording\, you mentioned that there’s kind of a dark side\, or at least a cost to humility. Can you tell me more about that here? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, so when we ask people to be intellectually humble\, we’re asking them to open up to the idea that they might be wrong about things that really matter to them. So that can be really unsettling. \nIt can create anxiety\, especially around things that hold deep [00:12:00] meaning for us\, like our values\, or those big purpose kinds of questions. Those existential questions that we might have. \nAnd in some contexts\, like with major values\, more humility can actually come with less certainty. And it gives us this feeling of lost stability\, like the ground’s starting to shake a little bit on us. This is not just like a feel good skill. It can actually be kind of emotionally taxing or demanding. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That makes sense. Yeah\, I can see that\, especially if something you’re thinking of as kind of a foundational thing is\, “Oh\, I’m a person who knows how to do this\, or we do it the right way.” I have done that one and it has not been good. \nOr\, “Our team does it the right way.” Questioning that feels really risky\, especially if you have really deep values about quality\, like the quality of your work is super important to you. Being open to the idea that maybe the quality of your work [00:13:00] isn’t good\, could be – oh\, wow. Okay. Yeah\, that does feel risky. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, that’s why I like to think of building intellectual humility as also building your tolerance for uncertainty. The two kind of work well together\, right? You’re strengthening your ability to stay grounded and curious. Even when your ego would really like you to slam the door and say\, “Nope\, I’m right.” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. All right. I love this. Let’s get into it. What’s the practice you brought? Walk us through it. How can we start building our intellectual humility? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, I want to start out by saying just like any practice we share\, this is just one of many ways. I think even if you just worked on building humility in general\, it doesn’t have to be specific to intellectual humility\, you are well on your way to building intellectual humility as well. \nSo the practice I’m going to share is\, you can do this on your own at first\, and if you like\, you [00:14:00] can bring it into conversations with your team or collaborators when you’re ready. \nIf you’re going to do this on your own\, you would start by bringing to mind a real work situation. So a decision that you’re making or you’re grappling with\, a disagreement that you might be in\, or maybe a project where you feel pretty strongly about the right approach\, or I would say the quote unquote “right” approach. \nSo once you have a real work situation in mind\, you would start by admitting and noticing that you might not have all the information\, and I think almost across the board for almost everything\, there’s some element here that we could probably admit and notice that we may not have all of the information. \nSo you might ask yourself\, “What am I assuming here?” And\, “How sure am I really?” I would even recommend that you give yourself a number\, so for example\, “I’m 80% sure about this.” That [00:15:00] helps get you into a mindset that you’re not absolutely certain. It starts out setting you up for success\, when it comes to building your intellectual humility. \nEven if you said 95% – “I’m 95% sure I’m right about this.” 99%\, that’s not one hundred percent. That’s still setting you up for success by pointing out to yourself that you are not 100% absolutely certain. \nSo then you’re going to identify two or three limits of your knowledge in that situation. For example\, you know\, “I haven’t talked directly with the people most affected by this\, so I’m missing some information there.” \n“The data I have\,” – and this comes up quite a bit with like the American Community Survey data because it’s only updated every so many years – “We’re using old data\,” is one piece. And then\, maybe\, “I don’t fully understand all the technical constraints.” You’re not judging yourself for having limits\, you’re just getting accurate [00:16:00] about what those limits are in your knowledge. \nThe second step is to practice admitting first to yourself and then when appropriate out loud that you might be wrong or that you don’t know. So for example\, if you’re a team member or a collaborator\, you might say\, “Here’s my take\, and I’m open to being wrong.” You can literally say\, “I’m open to being wrong.” \nOr you might say\, “I feel really strongly about this\, but I know that I’m only seeing part of the picture from my perspective.” If you’re a leader\, you might say\, “I’m leaning in this direction\, but I’m not a hundred percent sure. I wanted to test this with you all.” Or you might say\, “Looking back\, I missed something last time. I’m adjusting based on what I learned\,” the act of naming it. \nIt changes the temperature in the room a little bit. It tells your own nervous system that\, “I don’t have to be perfect\,” right? Perfectionist\, unite or don’t unite. Know that you do [00:17:00] not have to be perfect\, and then it tells others that it’s safe to bring in their perspective. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. Wow. Okay. That was a lot. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yes. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: But I like it ’cause it was a good lot. Yeah\, I’m just thinking too about times where I’ve been in groups where people have said that kind of stuff where they said\, “I’m open to being wrong\,” or\, “Here’s my part that I can see. What am I missing?” And I remember that being such a wonderful invitation into sharing. \nAnd it was very much a moment where I would pause and think\, “Oh\, they actually care about what I have to say here.” So I can see that being really powerful. Bringing that kind of energy into a space. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, it really is. And I think\, you know\, if “I’m open to being wrong” doesn’t sound like you\, you can find a phrase that does. I often say\, “I’m just putting this out there and let’s discuss it\,” like\, “I’m not married to [00:18:00] this. I’m happy to hear and I want to hear what you guys think.” \nSo the third step is to invite other perspectives. Intellectual humility isn’t just internal. It shows up in how you go looking for other perspectives as well. So with others who are part of your situation\, you might ask\, “What’s a reasonable argument against my view? What are you seeing that I might be missing?” \nI really like this next one: “If this plan fails\, what will we wish we had surfaced in our discussion today?” I really love that question because I think sometimes when it seems like the ideas have come out of the gate and they’re well on their way\, I think people are like\, “I don’t need to share this concern. We’re already going down the path.” \nBut asking a question like this\, “If this plan fails\, what will we wish we had surfaced in our discussion today?” really invites anyone who’s feeling a little bit off\, [00:19:00] who maybe has a different perspective or has different information that they could share\, really invites that in. \nAnd I think it’s particularly hard when people are really coalescing and excited about an idea. And there’s a person who is like\, “Oh man\, I always feel like I’m the naysayer. I always feel like I’m throwing a wrench in things.” But honestly\, I always like to tell people\, a lot of times those folks are just trying to make it the best it can possibly be. You want to invite their thoughts and their concerns. \nAnd so a question like this does that\, and I don’t want to get too complex here\, but you could also normalize asking those who may be in a meeting that seem to be skeptical\, “What would change your mind before making a final decision?” And the reason I said I don’t want to get too complex here is because it’s not too complex to add a question to the end of your discussion before making a decision that would change your mind. \nBut a lot of times I’ve seen this done where a group kind of employs a little bit of a voting [00:20:00] system. The idea that I wrote down here in our notes is “Fist to Five\,” which is: holding up a fist means\, “I absolutely am not interested in going down the path of this decision.” And then a five is like super enthusiastic\, “At all costs\, I want us to go down that path.” And then\, you know\, there’s 1\, 2\, 3\, 4. \nIf someone’s a fist and they absolutely do not like this idea. I think that’s where the question of\, “What would change your mind?” becomes really powerful. It invites them to share what they’re most concerned about with this. And it gives you potentially some time to respond to that and find some common ground. \nSo like I said\, I don’t want to make it complex and I just made it more complex. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: You did. But that’s okay. It was a helpful example\, and I think what I’m really hearing from you discussing this is that step three is really about making sure you’re not just paying lip [00:21:00] service to the idea\, but actually being open and actually inviting people into poking holes into your ideas\, your precious babies\, your ideas that are perfect and wonderful. \nYou want people to actually take you serious about giving you feedback. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: And I love that. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I mean\, that’s where the growth happens\, and it can feel really uncomfortable\, which is why I also suggest that you get to know how you feel when you’re saying things like\, “I might be wrong\,” or how you feel when you ask others for their view on an idea you just shared. \nSo\, however you feel\, you know\, whether that’s anxious or annoyed or relieved\, you don’t have to fix that. Just be really aware of it\, and just know that those feelings will be happening when you are asking these questions of others. Allow yourself to accept that\, so that you can remain open. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, it makes sense. This is a [00:22:00] pretty brave\, courageous thing to do. We talk about vulnerability a lot\, but I think actually choosing to say\, “Hey\, tell me what I’m wrong about\,” is a very exciting thing for someone to do. Like to see somebody do I imagine it is hard and\, and you’ve kind of talked about that\, but it makes sense. \nYou might have all these feelings and your body’s just telling you like\, “Hey\, this is riskier than some of the things you’ve done before.” \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, but that doesn’t mean resist doing it. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: It doesn’t mean you’re doing a bad thing. It just means it’s different\, right. We’re going to talk about that more on another episode\, or else this is going to get too long. \nBut I’m really excited to apply it in my life. And thank you. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: You’re so welcome. And it was my pleasure as always. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: All right. That’s it for this episode. If you liked this episode\, please share it with a friend or a colleague. In the meantime\, we’ll be back with another episode. Until then\, keep practicing. \n[00:23:00]\nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/humble-on-purpose/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260305T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260305T170000
DTSTAMP:20260327T213252Z
CREATED:20260305T110037Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260327T213252Z
UID:10001746-1772690400-1772730000@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Everyday Practices for Organizational Resilience
DESCRIPTION:[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”50px” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”column_reverse” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overflow=”visible” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” gradient_type=”default” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”padding-2-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color=”#f7f7f7″ background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” el_class=”podcast-sidebar” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][image_with_animation image_url=”147768″ image_size=”full” animation_type=”entrance” animation=”None” animation_movement_type=”transform_y” hover_animation=”none” alignment=”” border_radius=”none” box_shadow=”none” image_loading=”default” max_width=”100%” max_width_mobile=”default”][nectar_btn size=”large” constrain_group_1=”yes” open_new_tab=”true” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” solid_text_color_override=”#ffffff” icon_family=”none” text=”Subscribe Now” url=”https://www.buzzsprout.com/2099983/share” margin_top=”30″ margin_bottom=”30″][vc_column_text]Subscribe to the “Practicing Connection” monthly email to keep up to date on our latest podcasts\, blog posts and workshops. \nJoin the “Practicing Connection Community” on LinkedIn. The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xODc1ODQwMSUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTg3NTg0MDEtZXZlcnlkYXktcHJhY3RpY2VzLWZvci1vcmdhbml6YXRpb25hbC1yZXNpbGllbmNlLmpzJTNGY29udGFpbmVyX2lkJTNEYnV6enNwcm91dC1wbGF5ZXItMTg3NTg0MDElMjZwbGF5ZXIlM0RzbWFsbCUyMiUyMHR5cGUlM0QlMjJ0ZXh0JTJGamF2YXNjcmlwdCUyMiUyMGNoYXJzZXQlM0QlMjJ1dGYtOCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRnNjcmlwdCUzRQ==[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 9) \nResilience at work isn’t only about how much each of us can handle. It’s also about how our systems anticipate challenges\, respond to them\, and make space to recover and learn.  \nWhat changes when we start asking\, “How resilient is our organization?” instead of only\, “How resilient am I?” \nResilience is often framed as an individual trait\, but it’s also a property of our organizations – how they anticipate disruption\, respond to it\, and support recovery. \nIn this Practicing Connection practicast\, Erin and Jessica unpack what organizational resilience is\, where the idea comes from\, and how it shows up in our everyday work lives. \nDrawing on Shanna B. Tiayon’s four-phase framework: anticipatory\, preparatory\, responsive\, and recovery\, they share a simple set of reflection questions you can use after a hectic week\, a tricky meeting\, or a small crisis. \nYou don’t need a formal role or a big debrief to try it; just choose one phase\, ask one question\, and start noticing the change. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nShanna B. Tiayon\, PhD article: “What Does Organizational Resilience Look Like?“\nHandout: Four Phases of Organizational Resilience \nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: [00:00:00] Organizational resilience helps us create workplaces that can bend without breaking\, places that protect people’s wellbeing\, while still navigating change\, uncertainty\, and even crisis. \nHi everyone\, welcome to this week’s Practicing Connection practicast. I’m Erin. Today we’re exploring organizational resilience: what it is\, where it comes from\, why it matters for you and your organization\, and one simple practice you can try with your team. \nMy co-host\, Jessica Beckendorf\, will walk us through that practice in a bit. Hi Jessica. How are you? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I am great. I am so interested in the conversation we were just having outside of this recording\, about boredom\, and how I’ve never been bored\, and I’m super curious. Maybe there’s some connection to our group and we can explore it in the future. \nBut I am feeling super\, super curious about that now\, and I can’t wait for the two of us to talk more about that in the future. I didn’t really [00:01:00] add a lot to the conversation here\, but I’m – I’ve never been bored. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I cannot imagine that. I love boredom\, because that’s where my most creative things happen\, when I’m bored. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. And maybe we’re thinking of boredom differently\, like maybe boredom is meaning something different to us\, \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yes. Okay. Sorry guys. We will circle back later\, I’m sure. But I love that. Yeah. Okay\, sounds like you’re energized by talking to people. So let’s keep talking. \nWhat is organizational resilience? What does that mean? Tell me more. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I would say that when most of us hear resilience\, we think about individual grit or bouncing back from stress\, but specific to individuals. \nOrganizational resilience shifts the focus from\, ‘What can this one person endure?’ which sounds like a terrible question\, to\, ‘How does the whole organization anticipate\, absorb\, and recover from [00:02:00] disruption?’ \nAnd I say organization here\, but I’m also talking about community groups\, volunteer groups\, coalitions\, any time there’s a group of people who are working together on something: how do they anticipate\, absorb\, and recover from disruption? \nSo instead of asking people just to like\, “Tough it out\,” we’re asking whether our structures\, our policies\, and our group culture or organizational culture help or harm us when things get really difficult. \nOne way I really like to think about organizational resilience is about how the system bends without breaking\, so that the people within it don’t have to carry all the strain. It asks questions like\, “Did we see the risks early on? Do we have backup plans? Do we learn from our mistakes?” A bigger lens is what makes it so powerful. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. Wow\, that sounds great. I certainly think most of us have worked in places that call people [00:03:00] ‘resilient’ when what they actually mean is\, ‘still standing after being overworked.’ \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And overwhelmed. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: And overwhelmed. And there’s this idea that that’s something laudable. And I think it is cool when people are able to persevere through hard things\, but it’s also sad if we see someone persevering through a hard thing and then we do nothing to support them. \nSo it sounds like organizational leadership is a little bit about how do we show up better for each other structurally? Am I\, am I on the right track? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: You are\, and you’re actually reminding me right now of a training I took early in my career. So this was\, hmm\, probably two decades ago\, where I went to a time management for public employees. At the time I was working at a local government\, and it was a really great training. \nBut one of the things that came out of it is\, how do public employees often get rewarded when they’re doing a really [00:04:00] good job? And the answer was\, ‘It’s with more work.’ \nAnd so\, yeah\, what you’re saying is making sense to me. And I wanted to bring this topic up on the podcast after reading an article on the Greater Good Magazine site. \nThe article was by Shanna B. Tiayon. The article is titled\, What Does Organizational Resilience Look Like? And in the article\, the author describes organizational resilience as\, ‘The strength of the organization’s structures\, decisions\, and leadership behaviors that reduce the frequency and impact of crises.’ \nI love this because it’s all about building conditions where crises are possibly less frequent and especially less damaging. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, that sounds great. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. The author breaks organizational resilience into four parts: anticipatory\, preparatory\, responsive\, and recovery. Anticipatory is about noticing early warning signs. [00:05:00] Preparatory is about putting supports and plans in place. Responsive is how you actually act during a disturbance. And recovery is what you do after the disruption passes\, how you let people in systems reset and learn instead of just kind of pushing forward as if nothing happened. \nAnd I do think it’s very common for organizations to just keep pushing forward as if nothing happened. I’ve seen it many times. One of the things that struck me about this framework is how much it reminded me of the framework we talked about in the past\, from the Tamarack Institute\, called the Asset-Based Community Recovery Framework for Communities. \nThey’re similar models\, but they deal with a different scale\, right? The Tamarack one deals with community scale\, and this framework is dealing with an organizational scale. Honestly\, I think that both can be applied at both of those scales\, but I just thought\,  there’s support out there for organizations\, for communities to assess and recover from crises. \nAnd [00:06:00] whatever one resonates the most with you\, you’ve got multiple options. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, this is exciting. I love how practical this framing feels. Those four categories feel really great to me\, and I guess I’m curious about\, where does the idea of organizational resilience come from? Resilience feels like such a buzzword. Does it come from that buzzword? \nDoes it have deeper roots? How did they land at ‘resilience’? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, it definitely has deeper roots. Organizational resilience draws from fields like disaster management and organizational psychologies\, places where people have studied why some organizations navigate shocks like financial crises\, supply chain disruptions\, natural disasters\, or sudden changes in demand. \nAnd what they found is that resilient organizations don’t just\, quote-unquote “bounce back” by working harder. They do their best to anticipate risks. \nThey have thought out strategies. [00:07:00] They maintain flexible resources\, and importantly\, they learn from what happens\, right? They don’t just keep going after something happens. \nAnd then more recent work also emphasizes learning and communication. Things we talk about quite a bit on the podcast\, like psychological safety\, open information sharing\, and reflective practices\, because those things help organizations adapt thoughtfully rather than just reacting in panic. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay\, so this is also about being smarter and more intentional as a group\, as a collective. What kind of impact does using this framework have on people and workplaces? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I love that you asked this question. This is where the real impact is evident. As you might imagine\, organizational resilience is tied to better performance during crises and less chaos for the people who are working within the group or the [00:08:00] organization. \nResilient organizations are also more likely to maintain essential functions to adapt their strategies when things go off track\, instead of just breaking down or overreacting. And they also tend to have better communication\, more clear decision making and more trust among the members. There’s also some evidence that when organizations employ good planning\, clear roles and supportive policies\, employees experience less burnout and emotional exhaustion during crises. \nSo it not only helps an organization continue operations to employ\, you know\, these four different phases of organizational resilience\, but it can help protect people’s mental health\, because the system is designed to absorb more of the shock\, instead of the people having to individually absorb it. \nSo I also want to be really clear: you don’t have to have a big title or a leadership role to contribute to organizational resilience. You still have [00:09:00] influence\, you can shape how your team runs meetings\, how they handle conflicts\, and how they learn from mistakes. Those small choices can quietly model resilience for the broader organization. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I love that bringing it down to a team level makes it feel much more actionable and much more accessible for someone who maybe isn’t in a formal leadership position. \nSpeaking of action\, we talk about practices on this podcast. So Jessica\, can you talk us through the practice that you brought today? \nI’m excited. I wanna hear how to do this. This sounds great. I have been a person who has\, in other jobs\, I have absorbed stress that maybe could have been in an organization\, and I want to hear how we can do that. Like\, that sounds great. Let’s go. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Great. Well\, this practice combines elements of after-action reviews\, which is a way of reviewing an action or a [00:10:00] project after it has occurred\, in a very nonjudgmental way. \nbut this practice combines that style with the four phases of organizational resilience that I mentioned earlier: the anticipatory preparatory\, responsive and recovery. \nIt was designed as a way to bring an organizational resilience lens into everyday moments that you already have\, no matter your position at your organization or in your team. \nSo to start\, think of a recent disturbance of some sort. Maybe it was something like\, it’s just a hectic week. You had 24 hours of meetings. I’ve had that myself. Maybe you have told me before that my schedule gives you hives sometimes. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah. You have so many back to back meetings. It makes me die on the inside. Okay\, so we’re talking about hectic weeks. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. So maybe it was a hectic week. Maybe it was a tricky meeting\, you know\, there’s a little tension in the meeting\, or it was really rushed. Maybe it was a last minute request that was difficult [00:11:00] to deal with\, or it was even a small crisis. \nSo think of a recent disturbance\, and then move through the four phases with a few questions that I’ll share in a moment. You don’t have to answer all these questions\, we give you a variety of questions so that you can pick what is most relevant to your situation. Just pick the one that resonates or the ones that resonate for you and are appropriate for the situation. \nSo\, the questions for the anticipatory phase: this is about did we see it coming\, right? You’re looking at identifying what the early signals were. So you might ask yourself\, “What early signs did I\, or we\, have that this could become challenging\, where we identified that this could become challenging?” Maybe you might ask\, “What did I notice but not say out loud?” \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: “If I could rewind\, what small signal would I pay more attention to next time?” \nSo these questions can help you build the skill of noticing [00:12:00] weak signals and speaking up sooner\, which really helps build anticipatory resilience. \nPreparatory phase: This is about assessing\, “Were we set up well?” You’re looking to uncover how prepared you were. So you might ask\, “What supports or resources made this easier?” Things like information\, relationships\, processes\, tools. “Where did I or we feel unprepared or under-resourced?” And then\, “What is one thing I could put in place right now?” Maybe it’s a checklist\, a template\, a connection with a key person to be better prepared for next time. So even small shifts in preparation can make a really big difference for the next challenge. \nAnd then the responsive phase\, this is about\, “How did we act in the moment?” It’s about assessing how you and others responded when the thing was happening. So here you might ask\, “When did our response feel clear and coordinated?[00:13:00] What helped that happen? When did things feel chaotic or reactive? What was missing in those moments?” And then\, “How did I show up under pressure? What am I proud of and what would I like to do differently next time?” \nI wanted to emphasize here\, not because I’m putting it all on the individual\, but I want to emphasize it because you don’t have to be in a leadership position and trying to solve this thing for your whole team. You could also model for your team members by making small shifts yourself\, right? So this helps you learn from your real behavior under stress\, not just your intentions. \nAnd then finally\, the recovery phase. “Did we actually recover and learn?” So this phase is about learning from what happened after the situation. You might ask\, “Did I or we get any time or space to recover after this\, or did we go straight to the next thing? What would meaningful recovery have looked like for me and for [00:14:00] others involved?” And then\, “What is one small adjustment I can make going forward?” Maybe it’s a boundary\, a short debrief with someone or with yourself\, a check-in so that recovery and learning aren’t skipped next time. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. Those were great questions. There were a couple that I had to mute because I was doing like a\, “Ooh\, that’s a good one” noise. And I was like\, “No\, I want people to hear the questions\, not me responding to the questions!” \nI also think something I really appreciate about these is that they’re very flexible. You know\, there’s a lot that you can get into with these questions. So for someone who’s listening\, and thinking\, “That feels like a lot\,” what’s the smallest possible way to try this out? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, that’s a good question. And like I said\, you don’t have to answer all of those questions. But the smallest version is to pick one phase and one [00:15:00] question. \nSo for example\, after a particularly hectic day\, you might ask\, “What early sign did I ignore today?” For me\, because I have some experience with this one\, that might be that\, “I said yes to following up on some items today before noticing that my calendar was full.” Or after a big meeting\, so maybe you were facilitating\, which requires a lot of energy and preparation\, or maybe it was just a difficult meeting you might ask\, “What would recovery look like for me after this? \nAnd both of these examples can start to shift how you think about your organization and your role in it\, and how you show up in it too\, right? \nSo\, if you ask yourself\, “What would recovery look like for me after this?” If you’re facilitating a big meeting\, you’re in charge of planning that meeting or bringing everyone through the discussion. And that takes a lot of emotional and mental labor for you. Don’t allow anything to be scheduled for right after that meeting. Maybe you just need some [00:16:00] down time. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: We love buffer time. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Buffer time. I love this\, buffer time. That’s what I mean by that. And then I want to emphasize\, right\, those are two very individual things that you can do\, but you can also bring one of these questions gently into existing spaces\, right? \nYou could ask some of these questions during a meeting while discussing a recent project or issue. You don’t have to make it a big formal session where you’re gonna go through all four phases. You can just kind of seed a bit of this thinking into what’s already happening. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: I love that. That feels very accessible. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Awesome. Okay. Well thank you so much for walking us through this\, Jessica. I found this really encouraging\, I’m excited to get started using some of these questions\, and I’m hoping other people are too. \nSo we’re going to make a handout that you can link to in the show notes\, so you don’t have to re-listen to this podcast every time you want to engage with these [00:17:00] questions. \nHopefully you guys are all as excited as we are. Thank you everyone for listening. Consider trying this with something that’s already on your plate\, a project\, a meeting\, or a challenging week\, and see what you notice. \nWe’d love to hear how it goes and what you learn. You can share with us by emailing practicing connection@oneop.org. We’ll be back next week with a new episode. Until then\, keep practicing. \nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/everyday-practices-for-organzational-resilience/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260226T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260226T170000
DTSTAMP:20260226T151919Z
CREATED:20260226T110015Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260226T151919Z
UID:10001736-1772085600-1772125200@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Collaboration in Action: Serving Military Families through Strengthening Communities
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column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 9) \nHow does a small North Carolina city become a national example of collaboration between military and community?  \nMayor Will Lewis says it starts with relationships – and a willingness to show up for one another. \nIn this episode\, Jessica Beckendorf talks with Havelock\, North Carolina Mayor Will Lewis about what it looks like when a city and an installation grow together. \nAs president of Allies for Cherry Point Tomorrow\, Mayor Lewis helps connect community\, education\, and military partners to strengthen opportunities for service members\, veterans\, and local families alike. \nTheir conversation explores how collaboration\, communication\, and long‑term vision can build lasting readiness at every level. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\nVisit the ACT website: https://alliesforcherrypoint.com/\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” 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button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”][Jessica Beckendorf]: Welcome to the Practicing Connection podcast. I’m Jessica Beckendorf. In this episode\, we’re spotlighting a community that has made partnership a central theme\, Havelock\, North Carolina. \nHavelock sits just outside Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point\, which also happens to be one of the largest employers in the region. It’s a place where the city\, the installation\, schools\, and local employers work hand in hand to support service members\, veterans\, and their families. \nThat kind of collaboration does not happen by accident. It takes leadership\, people\, time\, and a deep commitment to community well-being. Our guest today knows that work inside and out. Mayor Will Lewis has served the city of Havelock for nearly two decades\, building strong bridges between the city and the installation. During this time\, he has championed education\, STEM outreach\, and open communication across civilian and military sectors\, all while maintaining typical mayor duties\, like attending community events\, community engagement\, and working to make Havelock stronger. \nMayor Will also leads Allies for Cherry Point Tomorrow\, or ACT\, an organization that began years ago with a single mission: to protect the Fleet Readiness Center East during a round of base realignment. But ACT has since evolved into a nonprofit that uplifts the installation and the surrounding region. So today\, ACT convenes partners to expand access to engineering education\, to grow local employment opportunities\, and create pathways for transitioning veterans\, all with an eye toward long-term community and family readiness. \nThat is quite the introduction. Mayor Will\, welcome to the podcast. It’s such a pleasure to have you here. \n[Will Lewis]: Hey\, Jessica\, thank you for having me. I’m honored to be on your podcast. I’m going to do my best to make that intro do some justice to it. Thank you for that. That was awesome. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Well\, we’ve already had a couple of off-air conversations\, and I fully believe all of the things that we said about you. So let’s get started with the first thing I wanted to ask you\, was that\, you know\, you’ve served as the mayor of Havelock for nearly two decades\, and now you lead Allies for Cherry Point Tomorrow. \nWhen you think about your journey\, what personal values or experiences have most shaped how you show up for military families and the broader community? \n[Will Lewis]: Well\, I mean\, it has been\, this is my 21st year total. I did eight years as a commissioner on the board and this number 13 as mayor. So 21 years\, as you said\, for the city. \nAnd\, you know\, I think like most people who get in a position\, whether for local service\, like local government\, it is about service and it’s about people. It’s about the people in your community. So I grew up here in Havelock. And I’ve been surrounded by Marines and all of our local citizens the whole time. I just wanted to give back. \nSo when I first ran\, the thought was\, “I’m just going to be able to help some people\, whether it’s getting a stop sign right or\, you know\, fixing potholes in a street\, whatever that might be.” I really didn’t know when I first joined the board that there would be this whole component with Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point and taking care of Marines. \nAnd I grew into that. And you kind of saw it a little bit. It’s like when you grow up here\, I tell everybody\, like\, “We’re so fortunate. We live with everyday heroes.” Like\, you’re pumping your gas\, you look over and the person next to you is about to deploy or is training to deploy. We’re a very operational base. \nSo like\, man\, we live with people that protect our freedom. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Yeah. \n[Will Lewis]: So it starts simple\, like just seeing them at a local event and talking to them\, and making them feel welcome when they’re brand new\, because they change out every three years. Making them feel welcome. Then it grew into ways that we can actually affect their lives\, things that we can do for them to make their lives better. So I don’t know that there was like any one thing or activity\, or like realization. It kind of grows on you if you stay here long enough\, I guess. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Oh\, no\, that makes so much sense. And it seems like as it grew on you\, though\, you all had\, maybe it wasn’t a realization\, maybe it just was sort of a baby steps kind of thing that kind of built on each other. But it seems like you realized\, “Oh\, wait\, working together kind of floats all the boats or gets all of the planes in the air\,” however\, whatever metaphor you want to use there. But working together actually helps the wider region. \n[Will Lewis]: Yes. And I think I was fortunate enough to come along when that realization was happening. Maybe just the right place\, right time. Because for a long time\, the world of defense was\, it was always like the base did its thing and the community did their thing. \nAnd then there was like\, you intermingled\, you know\, we all played sports together and whatnot\, but we didn’t think about things like infrastructure together. We didn’t think about water supply. We didn’t think about sewer. We didn’t think about\, “What you can do as a larger community to protect families when their spouse deploys overseas?” \nAnd I think I was at the right place\, right time that all that conversation was starting. And we were able to be a part of that and grow with that thought. So as that thought process grew over the 20 years\, the City of Havelock has just been invested to grow that same way. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Oh\, yeah. And so when you look across Havelock\, the Marine Corps\, Air Station Cherry Point\, and the surrounding region\, you’ve kind of started to allude to this\, but how do you see the military family readiness system operating in real life? Like\, who are the key players? And how do they work together to support service members and their families? You’ve started to mention that they’re doing it\, but yeah\, how do you see this operating? \n[Will Lewis]: Well\, there’s a lot of partners\, right? So I should disclaim by saying anybody I accidentally forget\, you can blame it on my brain\, not on my heart. Because there’s so many ways to help take care of your installation. \nSo ACT\, Allies for Cherry Points Tomorrow\, we really represent a four-county region. So we have Craven\, Carteret\, Pamlico\, and Jones counties. And then all the municipalities that sit in those\, they all participate with ACT. And there’s so many ways that we do it\, all the way from\, for example\, all of our chambers of commerce all have a military affairs commission. And those military affairs commissions do things like service person of the quarter\, where a command recommends somebody and writes a write-up of what they’re doing in the community\, and how they’re volunteering and why they deserve to be service person of the quarter. \nAnd then we do a big lunch and all our local businesses come together\, and they donate things to that person to thank them for what they’ve done in our community in their short time here. And they do things like\, we do these chicken pickings on the base where you pick a squadron\, you go over and you just cook a whole bunch of chickens\, and everybody comes and eats chicken and hangs out with the Marines. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: That sounds like fun. That sounds like a good time. \n[Will Lewis]: They’re a blast. And every chamber has a piece in that. So it happens multiple times a year. I call that like the morale and welfare piece of it. \nBut it goes even\, like\, our schools\, like every one of our schools in Craven County or in Havelock in particular\, we all have a squadron assigned to us. So when they do field day\, the Marines come out and do field day with the kids and the teachers get to meet those Marines. And if they do science night\, they come out and spend time with the kids doing the experiments. So it’s at every level like that. \nAnd it goes all the way up to what I would say the most advanced levels\, which are us as a community trying to understand their needs\, whether it’s inside the installation or out in the community\, and then trying to provide those. \nAnd that could be anything from – perfect example: we didn’t have lacrosse in Eastern North Carolina when I was a kid. Nobody played lacrosse. That was like a Northeast thing. But you get all these Marine families that come here and they came from the Northeast. “Why is there no lacrosse here? We played lacrosse when we were in Maryland\,” or wherever. And the city evolves in that and the community decides\, “Oh\, we do need a lacrosse league.” \nAnd guess who our coaches are\, right? There are all these Marines that have moved here and understand lacrosse. And then our local kids get involved in that. And now we have lacrosse everywhere\, including even at the high school. And so I think the little pieces like that\, because it’s I say in Havelock especially\, you can’t separate Cherry Point and Havelock. We’re like completely intertwined\, right. \nBut even our entire region now is completely intertwined into that. And when everyone’s thinking about what they’re going to do\, they include\, how does this impact the military? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it something they want? \nSo there’s a million ways. And it’s everybody from school systems\, community colleges\, Allies for Cherry Point’s Tomorrow\, chambers of commerce\, even the municipalities themselves\, right. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Wow. Yeah\, that’s one of the reasons why we like doing episodes like this\, where we are uplifting stories of the military family readiness system in action\, like what’s happening in Havelock. We hope that whether you’ve got a Marine Corps air station right next door or not\, we hope that people in communities will ask\, “How might this issue impact military families in our area?” Even if it isn’t the biggest employer in the area\, even if it’s almost invisible. \nAnd we also hope that the folks who are on installations will ask\, “How is the community already addressing certain issues?” And it sounds like you guys really have that relationship down. You’re coming together and you’re making decisions together and you’re doing it in a way that is not just coordinated\, but it’s integrated into everything you do. \n[Will Lewis]: Absolutely\, Jessica\, even our planning committees and our technical advisory committees\, we include people from the installation on that. So we’re talking about traffic or projects. They can give us input to say that’s how it would affect us\, or we think that’s a good idea\, etc. \nAnd I think a lot of it\, it’s because Havelock and Marine Corps Air Station grew together. Like a lot of communities already existed. They were already incorporated. And then a military installation came. For us\, we were here as a community since the 1700s\, 1800s\, but we didn’t even incorporate till 1959. And the base came here in 1942. As the base was growing its identity\, Havelock was growing ours. \nAnd so\, I mean\, it’s kind of like growing up with your brother or your sister. You get a little piece of them whether you want to or not because you’re all growing up together. And I think that’s what made us unique. \nAnd I didn’t know we were unique\, Jessica\, I just thought that was normal. Growing up here\, I just thought every community and their base had that exact same relationship. And it wasn’t until we got involved with the Association of Defense Communities that we realized… that it isn’t. That it is kind of unique. It’s not that way everywhere. \nAnd we’ve tried to do our best to explain how we do what we do and give them a little bit of the magic sauce\, so that other communities can benefit. Because a lot of people look at it as a challenge. I look at it as this complete and total benefit that we have all these Marines and their families and sailors and their families here. It benefits us dramatically\, makes us better as a community. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Yes. Wow\, I really appreciate that comment. So the city and the base grew together\, but also ACT\, the Allies for Cherry Point Tomorrow\, started as an effort to save the Fleet Readiness Center East\, right? During\, I know the acronym is BRAC\, but I cannot remember what it stands for. \n[Will Lewis]: Base Realignment and Closure. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Thank you. And because it’s since become a nonprofit focused on strengthening both the installation and the community. So I’m wondering\, can you share a moment\, and maybe the answer is no\, there is no moment\, it just was a lot of little things that happened over time. But can you share a moment when you realized that ACT’s work was about more than one decision point\, you know\, saving the Fleet Readiness Center East – that it was about building long-term community infrastructure for military families? \n[Will Lewis]: I can talk about when the moment was for me. So I’ve been a part of ACT for\, I guess I’m right at 11 or 12 years on the ACT board. And it was some great individuals that started it long before that in the 90s when you’re talking about them. \nSpecifically\, it got larger around that the whole community coming together to protect Fleet Readiness Center East aboard Cherry Point. But I know that sometimes those decisions were opportunity driven\, and that was ours. So we always knew that we had to advocate on behalf of Cherry Point for the readiness and the mission and making sure that that was all as healthy as it could be. \nBut for me\, it was when the school system came to us at Allies for Cherry Point Tomorrow and we were heavily deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan. And they came to us during the month of April\, which is the month of the military child\, they came to Allies for Cherry Point Tomorrow. \nAnd they said\, “We do these deployment boxes.” And it was\, this box was kind of a lot of\, every branch I think has them\, but it’s got a teddy bear in it in uniform. And then it’s got some stationary to mail back and forth\, and some other things. There’s a book in there\, and it’s to help kids whose parents have to go deploy and go to war. And the school system came to us at ACT\, and I was pretty new on the board and they said\, “Hey\, we’ve got a lot of deployed military right now. We want to get more of these deployment boxes and we don’t have the budget. How could we partner to do this thing?” \nAnd that was when I think it flipped a switch in me that was like\, ‘oh\, we can do more.’ And then I feel like every year it’s like\, we can do more\, we can do more\, we can do more. So we’re always just looking for more\, right. But that was what I realized. Maybe it’s not just about advocacy. It’s also about as a community\, what do we do that kind of rings out bigger and across everybody\, and including these young people because we all\, you know\, a lot of times we forget about the kids. They’re dealing with that deployment just like that spouse that got left behind while they were gone is dealing with it. That was kind of the moment for me that I realized ACT could be a bigger impact in the community even. \nAnd that turned into just constant evolution over the last 10 years. And it’s been everything from us doing the deployment boxes to kick all that off. But then it grew into us providing scholarships at the local community colleges for transitioning military and their families. It grew into a star base. It’s leaps and bounds over the last decade from the idea of just like\, “What’s next? What can we do? How can we do more?” \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Wow. Well\, I mean\, I feel like you’ve already expanded on\, you just gave a whole bunch of great examples of this\, but I’m wondering if you have sort of a favorite example of an initiative where you saw\, maybe it was through ACT\, maybe it was through some other initiative where you saw municipal\, educational\, and military partners come together in a way that really improved readiness for families? \n[Will Lewis]: Sure. The most recent example\, literally\, like the kids actually started this week and I’m going to get super excited. So if I go on too long\, Jessica\, just tell me. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: No\, I want to hear this. I want to hear all the details! \n[Will Lewis]: So we transitioned from a C6 to a C3. As a C6\, we were just an advocacy nonprofit\, but then we became a true nonprofit. And that was really spurred by that moment when it was like\, we want to do these deployment boxes. If we want to do more\, we’ve got to be a real nonprofit\, not just a government advocacy nonprofit. That led to some scholarship things that we do through our C3 for transitioning military\, which have been hugely successful. \nWe’ve raised almost $40\,000 over the last two years. They go directly to our community colleges. We have three of them. And it is for transitioning military\, specifically for things they might want to learn or get a certificate in\, or a degree in that is not covered by the GI Bill. And so workforce items and things like that. And it’s been wildly successful. But the most recent one where everybody came\, this is the one with the most partners. And if you’ve heard of DoD Starbase\, or if you’ve ever heard of – \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Starbase. From you\, I think\, from our last conversation\, yeah. \n[Will Lewis]: So it’s a project or it’s a program within manpower part of the department. And it’s been going on since\, I’m going to say the early nineties\, I want to say the first Starbase started\, but it is a fifth grade STEM education outreach program that is co-located with a military installation. It’s funded through the department. \nAnd then you have a local nonprofit that runs the money and provides STEM education. It’s predominantly for Title I schools\, but it can be for any schools after you get through your Title I schools. And we’ve never had one here. And there are 90 of them across the country\, but there never been one in Eastern North Carolina. FRC East\, which is located aboard Cherry Point\, they have a really big STEM outreach into the community. They go to schools and they have a fab lab they bring around\, and they kind of show kids STEM and try to get them excited. \nSo FRC East was like\, “We need a star base. We’ve got to have a star base.” So we all got in this room about two years ago and it was FRC East. It was our Marine Corps Station Cherry Point leadership. It was Allies for Cherry Points Tomorrow and some school folks. And we said\, “How do we make this happen?” \nSo we filled out an application. We got letters from all of our congressmen\, senators\, both state and federal\, and even our governor got letters from our military affairs commission\, our local superintendents\, and we flooded the department with letters. And eventually they said\, “Yes\, we’re going to make you a Starbase.” \nThere was some funding issues\, always is\, right? Never enough funding to do everything everybody wants to do. But this past year\, they got enough funding to actually start a Starbase here. And so where the real partnership happened was FRC is trying to make this thing happen. They have to have a nonprofit step in to run the money. Well\, ACT’s never been a government contractor. That’s not what we do. But they came to us and they said\, “We think you’re the perfect partner. You’re focused on our kids in the community. You’re focused on our kids in the military. You’re focused on our mission. Would you be willing to partner?” \nAnd so my board said\, “Yeah\, let’s do this thing. Let’s figure it out.” So over about an eight week period with the help of FRC East and the station\, and then we had to kind of go on our own to do the actual government contract. We write the contract submission. We turned it in. It got approved. We worked out a contract. And as of October 1\, we officially have a star base. \nBut to make that happen\, to get these kids in there\, it’s just I can go on and on about the opportunity for the kids because I think it’s an amazing opportunity. But to do it\, it took the command at Fleet Readiness Center East. It took the command at Marine Corps Station Cherry Point. It took Allies for Cherry Points Tomorrow. It took every one of our four school systems\, superintendents and deputy superintendents in charge of curriculum or whatever their title was in each one. It took the buy-in of the principals of those schools because we’re asking them to give us fifth graders for five days\, to get 25 hours of curriculum. That’s a lot of time out of the school building. And so we had to kind of help them understand how exciting this opportunity would be. \nIt is rigorous\, exciting\, unique STEM education that they get to go do hands-on. They call it ‘Hands-on\, minds-on\,’ which – I love that phrase. So they’re literally like building dragsters and making boats out of clay\, and trying to understand all these STEM concepts. And they get to go on the Marine Corps installation to do that as a field trip. They go on the installation to this building that’s dedicated for the Star Base. \nWe even included our community college because Allies for Cherry Point’s Tomorrow had to hire all the teachers and instructors and the director. We don’t have a big employee payroll. So we went to our community college and we partnered with them and they came in and they actually hired them for us. And then they work for ACT. And we have this huge partnership with all of those folks. \nSo you’re talking about eight or ten partners across all these spectrums that had to come together over a very short period of time. So we were awarded October 1. We had kids in the building February 17th. So over October\, November\, December\, and January\, we literally built an entire schoolhouse as a team\, all of us together. And that included furniture\, fixtures\, equipment\, iPads\, computers. Curriculum\, you name it. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Did the curriculum have to be written? \n[Will Lewis]: So the department provides the curriculum. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Oh\, okay\, good. \n[Will Lewis]: But the curriculum\, Jessica\, is massive because they want it to work for any installation. You get to go through the curriculum and pick which ones you want to utilize. And then you’re allowed to customize them to what you do as an organization. \nSo we obviously are focused on some aviation and fabrication type stuff because of what we do. And then we get to kind of tweak the stuff\, but we have to follow that curriculum. So just going through the curriculum for the director and the instructors was a Herculean task to do in a short period of time\, because once they decided what they had to do\, then we had to order all the materials and get them here in time so they could practice. \nSo when the kids walked in the building\, everything would be just right. We were in the building the day before they came in until\, you know\, six o’clock that evening and the weekend before just making sure everything was perfect. So those kids would have a phenomenal experience. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Oh\, and by the way\, in that four-month period of time\, there were also a couple of holidays that a lot of people take off for. \n[Will Lewis]: Yeah\, Thanksgiving\, Christmas. We had a little government shutdown in the middle of all that. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Oh yeah\, we did a little bit\, just a little one. \n[Will Lewis]: Yeah\, right? So all of that combined to make it quite a challenge. We would have never gotten it done. I mean\, there’s no way ACT could have done that. There’s no way FRC could have done it. There’s no way the college could have done it. \nBut all of us coming together\, we pulled this thing off. We are now\, right now\, the only active Marine Corps star base in the country. There’s 90 of them. We’re the only Marine Corps one. There are two other ones in North Carolina. They’re at National Guard locations\, one in Wilmington and one in Charlotte. But we’re the only Marine Corps one. And we got our first kids in this week. And so far it has been phenomenal. And the kids are absolutely loving it\, which has made it all worth all the effort that everybody put in. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Well\, I’m excited that I’m getting to talk to you during the week that this huge initiative is launching because that’s not only a huge task to get done in that short period of time\, but also you must be immensely proud. You and all of the people involved must be so proud. \n[Will Lewis]: Oh\, incredibly. And just the idea that all of our school systems can bring their fifth graders there\, it doesn’t cost them a dime. They just have to come up with the ability to bus them there. And then we provide everything else. \nSo you’re talking about kids that may never get to experience that level of STEM\, get to now come and experience it for 25 hours with people that are super passionate and excited about STEM. \nI would say we’re literally changing lives\, Jessica. There’s going to be at least some kid out of the 1\,800\, by the way\, that we’re going to serve over the next year\, 1\,800 kids\, you know\, at least one\, probably a hundred are going to be like\, “Oh my gosh\, I didn’t know that this was an option\,“ right. \nAnd we have a lot of opportunity for those jobs here with FRC East\, Fleet Riding Center East\, and obviously the Marine Corps and the Navy side of what happens here. So a lot of opportunity for them to then find a career path that keeps them in Eastern North Carolina and gets them excited about STEM. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: And you just touched on the next question I was going to ask you\, is what do you hope will happen in the future? You know\, sort of what are those future outcomes that you hope will happen? And it sounds like one of them is\, ‘Hey\, we really hope that we can not only help some kids find something they’re really passionate about\, they really want to pursue\, but also that they’ll be able to actually pursue that right here at home.’ \n[Will Lewis]: Yes\, ma’am. And so if you don’t mind\, I’ll tell you a little bit about it. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: I don’t mind any of this. Please continue. We’ve talked already. You know I’m riding the wave. I love it. \n[Will Lewis]: So we have\, I think the thing that Eastern North Carolina has done really\, really well is create this sort of STEM ecosystem for kids to go through from starting in fourth grade all the way through high school and even into college. And it started with this organization called the Eastern Carolina Aviation Heritage Foundation. That is a long name. We call the ECAF for short\, but it’s a wing of the city and we started it. I was a commissioner at the time and my mayor assigned me to go over there and help start this ECAF thing. \nWe did not know at the time we would become what we are. We basically are a small museum with some airplanes and some cool stuff for kids to come see and interact with. That’s about the heritage of Cherry Point and Havelock. But what it turned into was we were the first STEM summer camp for fourth through sixth graders in Eastern North Carolina because we realized there was not one. By the time they’re in middle school\, eighth grade\, ninth grade or whatever\, it’s almost too late to get them excited about something new. You want to start a little earlier. \nSo we started this camp and we do 50\, 60 kids. We’ve done as many as 80\, depending on the year. Always have a waiting list. It’s competitive to get into it. And we run this camp through the Havelock\, through our foundation. Well\, then NC State\, North Carolina State University\, land-grant university. I’m a graduate of the North Carolina State University myself. They put a satellite location here in Havelock at our local community college where you can get a four-year degree in mechanical engineering systems. They did that to serve the base. \nSo the base kept asking them\, “How can we get engineers here faster? Because we have over a thousand engineers over there at Cherry Point.” And so they built that system. And so then there was this gap in the middle and the community college stepped up\, and they run a sixth through eighth grade camp. And then we run a high school camp with a partnership with NC State. And then you can get your four-year degree here. So in fourth grade\, if you go to a STEM camp and you’re like\, ‘this is my path\,’ then over the last decade\, you’ve been able to go to a camp every year and get more and more enhanced STEM. \nAnd all those camps work together. So they’re not little silos of STEM. They’re working together so that you’re growing in your capability every single year. And then those kids can go to NC State right here in Havelock\, get a degree\, walk right across the street\, and go to work at FRC East at a job that pays twice the average salary in eastern North Carolina. \nAnd the Starbase is just now a new component of that because all these camps cost a little bit of money. We do have scholarships and things. But the Starbase now opens that door up for people that maybe can’t afford the camp and can get excited about it\, and then figure it out through our camps or through the school system. \nI think\, you know\, my personal opinion\, East North Carolina\, that’s kind of where we’re crushing it. We are a very STEM-related base with operations and then FRC\, and what they do to tear apart airplanes and rebuild them. And we know we’ve got to build that workforce. And now we’ve had kids that started in fourth grade at our camp and went through all the years and then went on to get a degree and are now working at FRC East. And that’s pretty special. \nI don’t know of anywhere else that does it quite that way. We’re having our annual gala tonight\, Jessica. If you’re in town\, you could definitely come with us. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: I would totally do that. \n[Will Lewis]: We’re having our annual gala for the ECAF\, which is the fundraiser that supports that summer camp. And we will fill our local tourist and event center with all the companies and people that support that area. It’s a community buy-in. Everybody in the community supports those summer camps because they know that this is how we’re growing our community into something special. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Wow. Well\, I wanted to talk a little bit about\, so one of the reasons that Havelock stood out to me is your size. What’s the population? \n[Will Lewis]: So right now\, if you ask the state OMB\, they say we’re just over 18\,000. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Okay. Yes. Small city\, regardless. I mean\, even if your population swells certain times of the year\, it’s still a small area. And am I wrong in that you’re in a fairly rural area? \n[Will Lewis]: Yes\, ma’am. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: So that’s one of the reasons Havelock stood out to me\, besides\, of course\, all the incredible work you guys are doing. I wonder your thoughts on sort of the wider region\, and do you see what you all have done in Havelock as something that is at least on maybe different scales replicable in other communities\, right? \nYou’re a small community\, and I’ve worked in a lot of small communities and I know that in small communities\, the human capacity\, the amount of time people can spend on doing all of the volunteer things and doing all\, you know\, really trying to support people in the community is low. And my God\, it’s amazing that people thank you so much. \n[Will Lewis]: And if you look at even our whole region at the four counties that I mentioned\, Craven\, Carteret\, Jones\, and Pamlico\, even the population of all four of those counties combined\, I’m going to guess is in the range of less than half a million of all four counties. \nJones and Pamlico are even more rural than we are. Craven’s a little over 100\,000 and Carteret\, we’re the two biggest. So it’s probably more like 300\,000 total in the area. \nI think the answer\, I mean\, it sounds simple\, but it’s like you said at the very beginning\, it’s a lot of partners. So we noticed when we look across all of our committees at the city and even at the county\, including our ECAF that I just mentioned and Allies for Cherry Points Tomorrow\, there’s a lot of overlap. You’ve got somebody who’s on the ECAF board is also on my ACT board and is also on the Rec Advisory Board and is also on the Appearance Commission and is also on the County Rec Advisory Board. So there’s a lot of overlap. \nOne thing that we found\, and we learned this specifically in ACT and at our ECAF Foundation I was talking about earlier\, the right people matter\, the people that have that passion. You know\, there’s that old thing that says\, “If you want to get something done\, give it to the busiest person you know\, they’ll probably get it done.” There’s some truth to that. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: And it’s so sad\, but also\, yeah. \n[Will Lewis]: A lot of truth\, right? Yeah. I think the secret sauce is pretty simple for this one. It’s getting a unified vision that everybody wants to pull in the same direction. And I think what’s really unique about our area is nobody’s trying to take credit for what’s happened with STEM. \nACT is not running around saying\, “We wouldn’t have STEM if it wasn’t for Atlas Retriever Points tomorrow.” ECAF isn’t saying\, “We started the first elementary school.” \nEveryone just sits down every now and then and talks about what’s missing. What are we doing right? How can we all help each other? And how does that turn into an area that everybody wants to live in? And maybe it’s because we are in a rural area that everybody realizes we have to work together. There’s no competition. \nCherry Point is a $2.6 billion industry to our community. $2.6 billion. Nothing comes even close. There’s no other employer\, like FRC East is over 4\,000 employees. There’s nothing even close in our area. And then you add in the fact that these are everyday heroes that are literally doing the nation’s work to keep us all safe. And it kind of makes it easy to want to help them. \nBut I think you do have to have good leadership. A lot of our good leadership are folks that have maybe retired from the installation and stayed in the community. They realize Eastern North Carolina’s paradise. And then they’re like\, ‘hey\, I want to stay.’ So like the guy tonight that’s going to run our gala is the chairman of our ECAF\, a retired two-star general from Cherry Point. And he has stayed here for decades. Helping us grow Eastern North Carolina. So leadership matters. But I think having a cohesive mission that we all can just say the mission wins\, the mission trumps everything. Yeah. Mission trumps it all. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: There’s no competition here. There’s no – one thing I’ve seen in a lot of smaller populated areas is sometimes there’s this competition for the scarce dollars that are available\, or whatever the scarce resources in general\, the human resources and everything. \nBut it sounds like you guys really have built a culture of collaboration as well. And perhaps that did start with some really strong leadership saying like\, “There’s no ego here. We need to just get the job done and do it together.” \n[Will Lewis]: And define those lanes everyone’s going to swim. And so\, like\, for example\, our Chamber Macs\, they do a phenomenal job at the morale of welfare. ACT has no business getting involved in that. I don’t need to do chicken pickings and I don’t need to do pig pickings and I don’t need to do any of that because the Chamber Macs do a great job. \nSo guess what? They do that and they invite us. And we’re members of the Chamber Mac. So when they do that chicken picking\, we’re going to show up. We’re just going to serve some Marines and we’re going to talk to them. We’re going to have a good time. But they’re the ones that actually do it. \nAnd by the same note\, we’re really good at government advocacy for our base. So they all know that that’s what we’re going to do. So they’re members of our organization and we do the advocacy. So we kind of all understand what our roles are and there’s no need to duplicate efforts. And nobody kind of – we just don’t really fight over that. And I think that helps too is once you’ve got that mission and everyone agrees\, then we can just define what we’re going to do and everyone kind of accepts that. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Wow. Well\, I had a couple of other things I was curious about because\, you know\, you’ve talked about some really big initiatives\, but behind some of those big initiatives\, what are some of the everyday collaboration practices that make initiatives like that possible? \nThings like\, you know\, how you communicate with installation leaders\, or how you engage schools or employers. Or how you keep veteran and family voices in the mix. So what are some of the small kind of everyday things you all do? I know one of them you mentioned already that when there’s an issue\, you all sit down and you’re like\, ‘how does this affect the military families?’ But what are some of those other small collaboration practices? \n[Will Lewis]: One thing I know that we do really well is we talk to our base leadership all the time. So\, for example\, I talk to our base CEO\, our commanding officer. He and I talk multiple times a week. And it could be really simple stuff. Like he just might be calling me to say\, “Hey\, we’re going to do some work outside the gate. It’s going to probably slow traffic down in Havelock. You may have an issue with these lights. Just letting you guys know.” \nAnd it could be something we’re doing in town\, “Hey\, did you know this was going to happen? It’s probably going to affect you guys.” So it’s like very mechanical infrastructure things. But also it’s just like\, “Hey\, what’s going on this Saturday night? Do you guys want to come out to the club and we’ll just eat supper together and talk about what’s going on inside and outside the gate?” Kind of that more informal\, just getting to know each other. \nI think everything in the world comes down to relationships. As a mayor\, that’s probably not a hard thing to guess that I would say that. But I also say the relationship has to be real. And so those touch points where you’re just like catching a quick meal together or\, you know\, when the new CEO comes to town and you’re just like\, “Hey\, you and your family should come out and check out this restaurant. It’s a great one out in town. When you go\, give us a holler. We’ll meet you over there.” Those things are important. \nBut I think even further down in the weeds\, I know in Havelock\, for example\, our departments are talking to their departments every day\, right? So I don’t know what my police department’s doing today. I mean\, I know that they’re protecting and serving\, but I don’t know what they’re actually doing. But they’re talking to the PMO\, the Provost Marshal’s Office on the base\, and they’re coordinating traffic and they’re coordinating what’s happening in and out of the community. And they’re talking about different things that I don’t even know about every day\, but it keeps that relationship solid between the base and the city. \nAnd then from the bigger picture of Allies\, Triple H\, Tamar\, and the counties\, we have this really cool committee that the base started. It’s called the Civilian Military Community Council\, the CMCC. And once every two months\, our base hosts one representative from every municipality and county. And the municipality and county gets to pick who they send. It’s typically a mayor or a county commissioner. We all go have lunch together on the base. And when we do\, the base CO brings in all the commands and they just give you a quick brief. What’s happening? What’s going to happen in the next couple of weeks? What can you expect at the base? That sort of thing. \nAnd then the community gets to report to the base the coolest stuff going on in their community. So they say\, “Hey\, we got a grant to put in a sidewalk over here. We’re going to be doing that next week.” Or\, “We’ve got a kayak launch. We know all your Marines like the kayaks. We got a kayak launch. It’s going to be open October 4th\,” whatever. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: I didn’t know Marines like to kayak. That’s great to know. \n[Will Lewis]: Anything\, you know\, I mean. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Outdoor stuff\, yeah. \n[Will Lewis]: Yeah\, anything outdoors. So everybody kind of gets to say like what they love about what’s going on. And typically you’ll hear things like other mayors\, like I talk to the CO every day\, but other mayors don’t necessarily get that if they’re not right by the base. So they’re like\, “Hey\, thank you guys for sending Marines out to serve at our local festival. They came out and they played games with the kids and they helped serve food and it was so much fun. Thank you for that.” \nI think that is a big one and I can take zero credit for that. That was started a long time ago by a base commanding officer and it has become expected by our community. Everybody loves the CMCC. Some local boards\, their members fight over who gets to go\, because you want to go and you want to hear that brief and you want to brag about your city. It gives you those subtle touch points again where everyone kind of gets to know each other a little bit. \nThe CEO gets to know communities that aren’t even right outside his gate. I mean\, I can throw a baseball from my office to the main gate. So we talk all the time. But if you’re 20 miles away\, 30 miles away\, that’s not the case. So that’s another tool in our toolbox that we all use as a community to stay connected. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Wow. I feel like if we looked at a network map of all of these relationships\, that there would be a lot of back and forth and a lot of connections. It sounds like there’s a lot of touch points. And I think that’s rare. It kind of brings me to another question. \nSo if there wasn’t an installation near you\, I guess I’m wondering\, like\, there’s still a value we know in supporting military families in an area. Like what advice\, I guess\, would you have for community leaders who maybe don’t have an installation near them and the value of supporting military families? \n[Will Lewis]: So this is\, I like to remind people that I think that people think that if you’re in the military\, your life is pretty easy. Like you just get a paycheck. You go to work every day. \nSo the first thing I always remind my community is it’s as hard as any other job\, probably way harder. And it’s as hard on the family\, especially when we’re in deep deployment cycles. And it really doesn’t matter if you are 100 miles from a base or not. \nI think just being cognizant of the fact that they are actually\, people are like\, “Oh\, if they’re not in war\, what are they doing\, man?” And it’s such a complicated organism of what they do to protect us and to train and to be a part of the\, you know\, what Marines like to call the “kill chain\,” like to be some part of that kill chain. \nAnd so when you look at that big picture\, I think people should understand\, first of all\, that not only are they working for a living\, but they’ve chosen service\, right? Like all of us have a job. They chose to sign a check to give up part of their life for the United States of America. So like\, let’s just stop first and respect that. Whether you have a base in your community or not\, let’s respect that. Especially if you didn’t choose to do it\, like let’s respect that they’re willing to do that. \nAnd then think about how does that impact their life? I mean\, they move every three years. In the Marine Corps\, they’re moving every two to three years. So you’re packing everything you own up. You’re trying to make weight on the shipment. You’ve got to get rid of things. You’ve got to decide what to keep. You’ve got to get your kids in a brand new school. All those things are a challenge for a family. \nSo if you’re close to one\, it’s easy to remember that. If you’re not close to one\, it’s a little more difficult. I think if you’re close to one\, or you’re not\, spend some time trying to understand that. And sometimes the easiest way is just to have a conversation with someone you know that’s either in the military or used to be in the military\, and they can tell you some of those challenges. Once you understand that\, I think the rest of it falls into place. \nThen you can find ways where you can kind of get in where you fit in to try to alleviate some of that pain\, or provide something for them that makes their life a little easier. Like\, for example\, Craven County Schools put military counselors in all of our schools. So when those kids come here\, there’s a dedicated counselor that they sit down with the family and they talk about where their credits came from. Because I mean\, some of these kids come from overseas and they just got credits there that don’t just necessarily match up to what you’ve got. \nAnd picking that military counselor\, that was a big deal for our school system to do that. And I mean\, money’s short\, right? And I think if you understand the challenges\, you can find solutions in that way. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Yeah. I used to work in a county that was pretty far from an installation. And the county veteran service officer was really working hard\, trying to work with the sheriff’s department on sheriff’s deputies carrying challenge coins with them. \nAnd to start asking\, you know\, are you a veteran? When they would arrive at calls\, you know\, asking\, are you a veteran? And giving them some training on how to use the challenge coins and how to talk to veterans. And I bring this up because I think\, you know\, whether you’re far\, we were in a county that was very far from installation. I know that veterans are everywhere\, but we also know that military families are too. \nAnd so even just the simple act of asking the families that you serve\, or asking\, “Do we have military families in this area that this issue would also affect?” seems like it would possibly go a long way\, based on what you’re saying. \n[Will Lewis]: Yeah\, that’s a really cool example. And it’s a reminder\, too\, that some of these military folks just go home when they’re done\, right. So I always try to convince them to stay in Eastern North Carolina\, because we want them to stay. But some of them were like\, “Hey\, my family’s in Alabama and that’s where I’m from. I’m going to move back to this area”. \nAnd they get back there and there’s no military base close. But when they come back to that school system\, their kids still have the same struggle. They still have the same opportunity to engage with the sheriff’s department or wherever when they go back home. And even if that’s a small percentage\, it’s a percentage we should pay attention to\, in my opinion. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Yeah. I agree. \nMayor Will Lewis\, thank you so\, so much for your conversation. I’ve enjoyed every one of them\, whether they were recorded or not. I really appreciate hearing about everything that Havelock is doing\, but also just your dedication and passion for serving the military families in your area. So thank you so much for being here. \n[Will Lewis]: Oh\, it was my pleasure. I love talking about it because I can’t even imagine if I was going to be a mayor. I love being the mayor of a town that hosts a military installation. I love it because I get to take care of my own citizens\, plus people that are sacrificing for the world that are also my citizens. I think it’s a special opportunity and I love talking to people about it. \nSo thank you for having me\, Jessica. \n[Jessica Beckendorf]: Mayor Will Lewis is the longtime mayor of Havelock\, North Carolina\, and president for Allies for Cherry Point Tomorrow. \nThat’s it for this episode of Practicing Connection. Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed today’s conversation\, share it with a friend or colleague. \nWe’d like to thank our co-producer\, our announcer\, Kaylin Goebel\, Meg Lucas and Joyce Vaughn for their help with marketing\, and Nathan Grimm\, who composed and performed all the music you hear on the podcast. We hope you’ll listen again soon. Until then\, keep practicing. \nThe Practicing Connection podcast is a production of One Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, U.S. Department of Agriculture\, and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, U.S. Department of Defense\, under award number 2023-48770-41333.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/collaboration-in-action/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
END:VEVENT
BEGIN:VEVENT
DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260219T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260219T170000
DTSTAMP:20260227T175300Z
CREATED:20260219T110017Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260227T175300Z
UID:10001739-1771480800-1771520400@oneop.org
SUMMARY:Turning Conflict Into Collaboration
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The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xODY5OTE4MCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTg2OTkxODAtdHVybmluZy1jb25mbGljdC1pbnRvLWNvbGxhYm9yYXRpb24uanMlM0Zjb250YWluZXJfaWQlM0RidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xODY5OTE4MCUyNnBsYXllciUzRHNtYWxsJTIyJTIwdHlwZSUzRCUyMnRleHQlMkZqYXZhc2NyaXB0JTIyJTIwY2hhcnNldCUzRCUyMnV0Zi04JTIyJTNFJTNDJTJGc2NyaXB0JTNF[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 8) \nIt’s easy to collaborate when everyone agrees. The real test of teamwork is what happens when we don’t. \nIn this episode of Practicing Connection\, Jessica and Erin explore how to stay grounded and connected when collaboration gets tough. Erin shares a reflective practice that helps you rethink how you see the person on the “other side” of disagreement\, using social intelligence skills like awareness and generosity of perspective. \nDiscover how to shift from trying to “win” a disagreement to understanding what motivates others—and why that shift can strengthen both relationships and results. \n  \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\n\n\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\nSee Dr. Robyn Keast talk about “Blue Box Thinking”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84YvXtc_VPg \n\n\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]JESSICA BECKENDORF (00:00) \nHi\, thanks for listening to the Practicing Connection podcast. I’m Jessica. Today we’ll be talking about how to work with people you disagree with\, and Erin’s going to be sharing a practice with us. Hi\, Erin. I’m really looking forward to learning more about this practice. What’s new with you this week? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA (00:19) \nHi Jessica\, it is a fun topic to talk about. I mean\, it’s not the most fun topic\, but I think it’s an important topic\, so I’m glad we’re hitting it. \nAnd let’s see\, what’s new with me this week? So I’ve started in the morning when I’m prepping my workday\, I write a little agenda\, and then at the end of it\, to make it more fun\, I write in ‘win’ conditions. So if you’re into playing board games\, that’s like a common phrase for like\, “what do I need to do to win?’ \nI don’t know how common win conditions are outside of the gaming world\, so I thought I’d just kind of outline that for you. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (00:55) \nI thought you said wind conditions at first. So no\, I’ve never heard of this before. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA (01:01) \nOkay\, so essentially it’s the list of things you need to check off in order to win a game. And I’ve been adding a list of win conditions to my day for like\, if I do these things\, then I won at work today. And it’s a little bit silly\, but I’ll regularly ask my husband like\, “Are you winning?” Like\, “Is it going well?” And then I realized I’m asking myself that question too. And I’ve never decided what winning means. \nAnd it’s very similar to deciding what ‘done’ means\, I think. You know\, it’s hard to feel sometimes\, especially when your work is lots of emailing or cerebral or text or all on a computer. It’s not like a physical thing. It can be hard to remember that you did it. So I’ve been making little boxes that I check off\, and I put a little sticker for each one that I win at. Sometimes I win at remembering to take a walk and drink water. And sometimes I win because I really finish a project on time. \nBut all of it has been shockingly helpful\, and I’m gonna ride that as long as it’s still giving me momentum. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (02:10) \nThat’s great. I like this version of\, it’s not the same thing\, but there’s a version that I feel like is a little bit similar that I used to do where I call that my ‘good job’ list\, where at the end of the day I would just\, and sometimes honestly\, there would be an item on there that was just like\, ‘I sent an email to this person.’ Sometimes it was something really tiny like that. And I know sometimes emails can take a long time\, like 30 minutes or more to write if it has to have a bunch of information\, but sometimes the email I was referencing in my good job list really had more to do with a small little email that I had just not gotten back to because we’re so bombarded all the time with so many messages. \nSo I love this. I love this version of that. And I like the question\, “Do you feel like you’re winning today?” And for me\, I’d probably have it be a gut reaction. And that’s the beauty of all these things is you can decide how to use them. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA (03:09) \nAnd for me\, my gut reaction always tells me that I did a bad job because sometimes my brain is mean to me. And so I was like\, you know what? We’re not going to let my emotional side of my brain have a say in whether or not I’m winning. If I did the checklist\, I won. Done and dusted. \nSo I do have to like make myself only do actually achievable win lists\, because if it’s suddenly 15 things\, I can’t actually do 15 things in a day. But we can talk about this practice more some other time. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (03:23) \nHmm. I like it. That’s why\, I’ve brought up before\, I think it was in a recent episode. I brought up that I sometimes like to use just one of those really small\, not – when I say really small post-it notes\, I don’t mean like the super tiny one x two ones. I’m talking about like the three x three square ones. I will put down on that little small post-it note the to-dos that I need to do that day in order to feel like I’m winning\, right? In order to feel like I won the day at a minimum\, I need to do these three or four things. \nI try not to make it any more than four things\, even though on those you can pretty much fit six to seven things\, I think. I’ve done it before. Yes\, I do know that. But yes\, anything that you can do to kind of help yourself get the things done you need to do and feel like you’re winning your day\, I think is a win. \nSo we’d love to hear how you’re winning. So drop us a line at practicingconnection@oneop.org. \nWe see and respond to every message and we can’t wait to hear from you. \n– break – \nSo Erin\, let’s learn more about how to work with people you disagree with. Can you tell us a little more about the practice you’ll be sharing\, and why you chose it? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA (04:55) \nYes\, well\, we’ve been talking about collaboration a lot as a team. You’ll find out soon. And it got me thinking about\, you know\, we write a podcast where we have lots of Practicasts\, what are practical things to apply. And so that had me thinking a lot about what skills do you need to collaborate? And the most important one that I needed to learn was how to work with people who I disagree with. \nI am a passionate person. I sometimes have very strong opinions. I sometimes think I’m right about everything. Spoiler alert\, I’m not right about everything\, sadly. But learning how to navigate that has been a lifelong study. I spent lots of time doing it on school group projects\, which were the bane of my existence. And I was like\, ‘why do we have to do group projects?’ And my mom would always tell me\, “Because you have to work with people in life\, and you’ve got to figure out how to do it now.” \nPeople are more forgiving when you’re a child. Hopefully also we’re forgiving of adults who make mistakes. That’s not what I’m trying to say here. You’re laughing at me. Okay\, going back to talking about group projects. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (06:04) \nNot laughing at you\, Erin\, definitely with you. No\, can I just interject for a second though\, because this is making me think about – it’s interesting because there is also in being a person\, as you just said\, with sometimes having strong opinions and\, you know\, feeling like your pathway is maybe the right one that the group should be taking. Think about the power in that and how someone else might be like\, “Erin seems pretty confident about this.” \nAnd I’m not trying to make you feel bad here\, Erin\, but I’m just thinking like\, right\, “Erin seems pretty confident about this. Maybe I don’t need to share how I’m feeling\,” or whatever. Right? So anyway\, let’s talk about this. Sorry – \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA (06:45) \nThat’s a good point. Just thinking about how are you showing up in a room and how is everybody else showing up in a room or a virtual room for your collaboration. Sometimes group projects are hard because people don’t want to be there\, or their workload is too big and they really can’t afford to be there. Or sometimes it’s because everybody is so passionate and they all have a different picture of what it looks like to be successful. \nAnd sometimes it’s hard to get into that. It just feels like this person’s telling you no all the time or they’re always fighting with you. And at least for me\, the path of least resistance for my brain is to villainize the person who I disagree with. And then suddenly they become a problem that I need to overcome\, or a road barrier\, and not a person to collaborate with. So what we’re going to talk about today is how to deal with that problem. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (07:45) \nYeah\, I appreciate that you brought that up too\, because you and I were talking before we started recording and I shared an example with you about someone that I was having some trouble with\, way in my past. And one of the things that came out of that was that I kind of villainized that person at first. I was really struggling. I was really fighting with them. All I kept hearing from them was ‘no\, no\, no\, no.’ \nAnd when I really dug into it and I worked on that relationship with them\, I realized\, ‘look\, I still disagreed with them. I didn’t enjoy their ways\, but I also really respected and understood where they were coming from.’ And I was able to get beyond that. \nSo let me ask you this then\, as you were looking into all of this\, I’m curious about how you were able to reconcile the idea of winning\, right? When two people are disagreeing and maybe both people feel very strongly that different pathways would be better for the project or for the situation. \nBoth of them want to win that argument. And so\, you know\, when we disagree on a pathway\, it could really cause a stalemate and progress could be stalled. How can we move beyond that? What were you finding? I’m excited to find out. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA (09:00) \nYeah\, well\, I’ve got some bad news. Because the only thing you can change about the situation is your own response to the other person. You can’t force them to see your perspective. You can’t magically make them not part of the project. Look\, I hate this answer\, right? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (09:21) \nBut you can work to at least try to understand – you don’t have to agree with them – but try to understand where they’re coming from is one thing. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA (09:27) \nExactly. Yeah\, that’s what I’m getting to. You’re spot on. I think what is frustrating about that is so often it feels like the other person isn’t doing that work too. And so it’s like\, ‘Man\, why do I have to do this labor and not this other person?’ That’s hard. That is hard to deal with. And I think it’s worth it because the benefits of collaboration and learning how to work with other people means that work can get done that otherwise would be impossible. \nAnd so you want to invest in making sometimes impossible seeming things happen\, figuring out\, ‘Okay\, how do I be aware of my own self\, be aware of what I’m doing and how I’m responding to people and how can I show up differently so that we can move past this roadblock?’ Because you can’t force them to show up differently\, but you can show up differently. So we’re going to talk about some social intelligence skills. \nI was not familiar with the phrase social intelligence until I was really digging into writing this episode. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (10:28) \nYou know\, I’ve studied via character strings. I took a bunch of their classes a long time ago\, so I’m very excited about this. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA (10:35) \nWell\, they actually have my favorite definition of\, did they come up with this as a theory or did they just talk about it really well\, you know? Specifically the phrase social intelligence. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (10:42) \nIt comes from the field of positive psychology\, yeah\, and there’s been tons of research done in that kind of area. And I think it’s in the virtue of humanity. Yes. Which makes sense\, right? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA (11:00) \nCool. Okay\, so if we just talked about a bunch of stuff and you’re like\, ‘I don’t know what social intelligence is\,’ a quick description from Character Strengths is\, \n“When a person knows what makes other people tick\, he or she is displaying social intelligence. They’re aware of the motives and feelings of themselves and others and how to fit into different social situations. They can feel comfortable and say the right thing\, whether they’re in the boardroom or the janitorial room\, in a school setting or on a construction site.” \nSocial intelligence involves two general components\, social awareness or what we sense about others and social facility\, which is what we do with our awareness. And our practice today is going to focus more on the awareness piece and how we are thinking about others. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (11:52) \nGreat. Let’s get into that practice then. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA (11:55) \nOkay\, so this is a reflection for someone. I wrote it with this scenario in mind\, but you can expand it past that if this is not your scenario. But what I was imagining is you are already mid-project with a person that you have to collaborate with\, who you disagree with\, and they are driving you crazy. \nSo this is a thing you can do kind of silently inside of your own head during a meeting\, or just after a meeting\, or like an email chain\, some kind of interaction you’re having with this person who you disagree with when you’re feeling really agitated. Notice that\, and then do this reflection after you’ve kind of noticed some of that. \nSo the first step is deciding that you want to do something and committing to changing your mind about this person. That feels like kind of a silly first step\, but unless you commit to it\, you’re not going to do it. So step one is\, commit to do the work of figuring out how to get along with this person\, even if they aren’t doing it back. \nStep two is finding a reason why you want to commit to doing it\, because it can be challenging and it can take longer than you want it to. I personally find it really helpful to reflect on my values. They’re different for every person\, but I value doing good work. Usually I’m doing work that is creating something for other people. So I’ll think about the end user or who is going to benefit from us doing this work together and putting that reason in the front of your mind. So when you’re agitated and irritated\, you can say\, “I’m doing this because the outcome is worth it to me.” And if it’s not worth it to you\, that’s another conversation for a different Practicast. But find your reason\, find your value that’s making you want to commit. \nAnd then step three is\, observe your interactions with the person. This can either be while you’re in a meeting with them\, or it can be after the meeting. You can just kind of reflect on\, ‘What do you remember about how they showed up in the room? Do they have a lot of emotions? Were they not expressing a lot of emotions? What was their body language like? What did they share about what was happening in their day or in their workplace? Did they share anything at all? Did they just show up and be task and business focused? How were they showing up to the meeting? Was that what you expected?’ \nNotice those things. Another really helpful thing to observe from your interaction is\, ‘What is one thing\, no matter how small it is\, that you can respect about how this person showed up? What’s one thing that you wish you did?’ \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (14:41) \nIn that example that I was talking about before that I didn’t give any details on\, the thing that I was able to respect about them\, which completely changed to me\, changed our entire relationship\, because I really respected them for it was that they really felt a huge level of responsibility to be accountable for things that our department was doing. And so once I understood that\, I felt like I was able to\, you know\, navigate that conflict\, right? \nWe’re talking about disagreeing with someone. I disagreed with their methods\, but we weren’t really in conflict. We were actually in sync because we both felt that same responsibility\, but they felt it much more acutely than I did. And so once I understood that\, I felt like I was able to respect them as a person and respect them much more\, respect our relationship a lot more. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA (15:37) \nYeah\, I love that. And a lot of this observation section is helping you notice what maybe you weren’t paying attention to. It’s being aware of what’s happening in the room\, both what the other person is doing\, but also internally inside of your own self. \nSo the last thing that I encourage you to observe is\, ‘What are you thinking about this person throughout the meeting? Are you automatically dismissing whatever they’re saying? Are you internally going\, “of course\,” or internally going\, “this again…” Are they going in circles? Are they talking about the same thing over and over again?’ \nI am guilty of this\, so no judgment. Just noticing your own responses to them. Are they positive? Are they negative? What evidence do you have to support the opinions that you’re having? Is it just an opinion that’s left over from a different meeting and you’re bringing it into this new meeting? So just observe and kind of notice you’re not being judgmental\, but you’re noticing what you’re bringing into the interaction and making note of it. \nAnd then the last step\, I think\, is the hardest step\, but it’s also the most important step. And I call it the imagination section. It is the part where you’re trying to imagine what is the most generous interpretation of why they’re acting the way they’re acting or why they have the opinion that they have. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (17:01) \nThat’s probably where my example fits\, is here\, except that it was my observation of our interactions that helped me to realize and imagine that the most generous reason for them having the opinion they have\, or acting the way they were acting\, was that they felt a ginormous amount of weight on them for our department’s accountability. Does that make sense? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA (17:24) \nYeah\, that makes total sense. And I think what can be challenging about this is\, you know\, at least for me\, sometimes I just want to be mad. Like I want to be annoyed\, because it’s hard\, right? And it’s easier to be annoyed at the other person than like be stuck in the feeling of stuckness. \nAnd what I think is so helpful about imagination is it doesn’t even matter if the most generous reason is true or not. The point of imagining why the most generous reason for why someone might behave in the way they’re behaving is so that you can shift your resentment and frustration and be more open to this person\, maybe not being wrong\, or maybe seeing them as a person\, not a problem. The goal here is to shift how you’re thinking\, not to shift the person. And the goal of imagining is to see them as a fully complex person\, and to be able to be generous. \nI think there’s sometimes this idea that\, if I imagine them that way\, then that is the reality\, and I’m writing the reality for them. And that’s not what we’re saying at all. We’re just saying\, imagine why someone might have this opinion. And maybe you’re right and maybe you’re wrong. But being open to them having good reasons for why they are responding the way they were responding really helps\, I think\, in building patience. \nBut then also in building your own curiosity. And then maybe there’s like a secret step five where when you’re not in an agitated space\, you can circle back and be like\, “Hey\, what’s going on with you?” Or\, “I’ve noticed you seem really passionate and you really value this X\, Y\, Z thing. Can you tell me about that?” And that’s where you can really build a relationship with a person and not just have them be a problem. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (19:10) \nAnd I told the person that in the example I’ve been giving\, once I told them that I appreciated the amount of responsibility they felt and how they really valued the work we were doing\, I just told them that I appreciated that they felt that level of responsibility. Again\, I didn’t agree with the methods. Did not love the way they did things. And also that started to shift their opinion toward me because they felt noticed\, they felt seen\, they felt heard. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA (19:39) \nSo you know how at the beginning of this meeting you were talking about how if I come in super definitive about my opinion\, maybe someone feels like there isn’t space for them to disagree? I think this is like me being\, I think sometimes I am this person that people need to reflect on to be less annoyed about. \nGosh. \nAnd not in a bad way\, but just in a like\, you know\, interacting with people who are different\, there’s conflict\, there’s friction there. And that I think also helps me show up differently. \nAnd one of my personal values is kindness. I think that’s really important. I try to think through how can I show up in a way that’s more kind. And so this has also been really helpful in shifting my own ways of being in a group. This practice really focuses on helping you shift your thinking about another person. But it has side benefits of shifting your own view of yourself and being kinder and more patient with yourself too. It’s pretty good stuff. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (20:35) \nYeah. And the last thing that I want to bring up\, just because it comes up so commonly and I’ve seen it over and over in my career. And also\, you know\, given that I’ve done a lot of interpersonal work with groups\, one thing that comes up over and over that this is really reminding me of is that idea of the people who’ve been around a while saying\, “But we’ve done that before\, we’ve done that before.” And it feels like it’s a ‘no\, no\, no\, no\, no’ constantly\, when people are bringing up ideas. \nAnd I’ve talked with a number of people who have been very concerned over the years about how they come off\, like folks who know that they’re the ones who are always like\, “Well\, we did that once before\, we already did that.” And I would say most of the time\, at least of the ones I’ve talked to\, they don’t want to do that. What they’re looking for is new solutions that their experience could be respected and inquired about and gotten curious about\, and like thinking about what new things we could all come up with. \nThat might utilize some of that knowledge\, but also utilize the new ideas coming in. And I’ve heard from a lot of people who are like\, “I’m not trying to say no\, no\, no to everything. It’s just\, we’ve learned a lot from what we’ve tried in the past. And so could we maybe just come together and say\, ‘Hey\, what have you learned from doing this in the past? We learned all these things. And what are your new ideas? Let’s try to mash all of this up together and see what new solutions we can come up with.’” \nSo it’s slightly\, I mean it’s on topic\, slightly off topic\, but I wanted to bring that up because I think it’s a common point where people are feeling really passionate about the work you’re all doing together\, but some people want to go one pathway\, some people want to go another pathway\, or some people want to go one pathway\, but they feel like the other people are just constantly telling them no\, no\, no\, no. And I think that there’s a way around all of that for us to come together. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA (22:25) \nYes\, that is a great example. Thank you so much for sharing it. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (22:29) \nThank you for guiding us through. That’s a really great thought experiment. \nSo commit to doing the work. Find a value or reason that you want to do it. Observe your interactions with the person or people that you’re feeling at odds with. And then imagine the most generous reason for them to have the opinion they have. What was that fifth bonus one? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA (22:52) \nThe fifth bonus one was engaging in a conversation about them as a person\, where you acknowledge the thing you respect about them. Or notice\, ‘Hey\, it seems like you really value XYZ. Can you tell me more about that?’ \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (23:08) \nYes. That’s great. I think that’s a great spot to stop this practice. Thanks so much\, Erin. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA (23:14) \nThank you! \nJESSICA BECKENDORF (23:15) \nWell\, that’s it for this episode. Thanks for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode\, click the share button in your podcast app to share it with a friend. We’ll be back next week with a new episode. Until then\, keep practicing. \nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/turning-conflict-into-collaboration/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
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DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:20260212T060000
DTEND;TZID=America/New_York:20260212T170000
DTSTAMP:20260428T200153Z
CREATED:20260212T110028Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260428T200153Z
UID:10001735-1770876000-1770915600@oneop.org
SUMMARY:How We Work Together: A Simple Practice for Better Collaboration
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The community is designed for people who support military families in a variety of settings both on installations and in our communities.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=”padding-4-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” column_position=”default” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”3/4″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”Listen” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_raw_html]JTNDZGl2JTIwaWQlM0QlMjJidXp6c3Byb3V0LXBsYXllci0xODY1MzM1NSUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRmRpdiUzRSUzQ3NjcmlwdCUyMHNyYyUzRCUyMmh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGd3d3LmJ1enpzcHJvdXQuY29tJTJGMjA5OTk4MyUyRmVwaXNvZGVzJTJGMTg2NTMzNTUtaG93LXdlLXdvcmstdG9nZXRoZXItYS1zaW1wbGUtcHJhY3RpY2UtZm9yLWJldHRlci1jb2xsYWJvcmF0aW9uLmpzJTNGY29udGFpbmVyX2lkJTNEYnV6enNwcm91dC1wbGF5ZXItMTg2NTMzNTUlMjZwbGF5ZXIlM0RzbWFsbCUyMiUyMHR5cGUlM0QlMjJ0ZXh0JTJGamF2YXNjcmlwdCUyMiUyMGNoYXJzZXQlM0QlMjJ1dGYtOCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRnNjcmlwdCUzRQ==[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid”][vc_custom_heading text=”About This Episode” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][vc_column_text](Season 7\, Episode 7) \nAre you really collaborating – or just coordinating?  \nThis episode offers a short reflection to help you notice where you are on the spectrum and make one small shift toward true collaboration. \nIn this episode of Practicing Connection\, Erin and Jessica use “blue box thinking” as a backdrop to explore the spectrum of ways we work together – competition\, cooperation\, coordination\, and collaboration – and introduce a simple practice called “Shift the Box.” \nYou’ll learn how to quickly name where you are on that spectrum in any situation\, notice when you’re stuck in status and control\, and choose one small action that moves you closer to genuine collaboration and shared power. \nLinks and resources from this episode: \n\n\n\nJoin our LinkedIn group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12879756/\nSend us a message: practicingconnection@oneop.org\nSee Dr. Robyn Keast talk about “Blue Box Thinking”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84YvXtc_VPg \n\n\n\n[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left” row_position=”default” row_position_tablet=”inherit” row_position_phone=”inherit” overflow=”visible” pointer_events=”all” el_id=”trans”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” column_element_direction_desktop=”default” column_element_spacing=”default” desktop_text_alignment=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_backdrop_filter=”none” column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” overflow=”visible” el_class=”entry” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” animation_type=”default” bg_image_animation=”none” border_type=”simple” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” column_padding_type=”default” gradient_type=”default”][vc_custom_heading text=”Transcript” use_theme_fonts=”yes” el_class=”trans-title”][nectar_btn size=”large” button_style=”regular” button_color_2=”Accent-Color” icon_family=”none” nofollow=”true” el_class=”read-it” button_id=”read-it” text=”Read More” url=”#trans”][vc_column_text el_class=”pod-trans”]ERIN CARLSON RIVERA: [00:00:00] Hi\, thanks for listening to the Practicing Connection Podcast. I’m Erin. Today we’re going to talk about how our assumptions about roles and power can get in the way of collaboration\, and how a simple reflection practice can help us shift into a more collaborative way of working together. \nHi Jessica. How are you doing today? \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I’m doing pretty good. It’s toward the end of the day and I’m kind of gearing up to get ready for my new volunteer gig. My first time helping out in community theater. So that’s been kind of a fun experience. I’ve only been to one rehearsal so far. Today’s the second one. \nI’m not in\, I wanna be clear\, I’m not acting. But I’m helping out and it’s been kind of fun to be like a point person to help out. I kind of like being in the middle of all that action. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That sounds so exciting. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: I know you have a background in theater a little bit. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That I think sounds a [00:01:00] little bit more than what I actually did. I did a lot of children’s theater as a kid and through high school. But background in theater makes it sound a little bit more glamorous than it was. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Okay\, I get it. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: But I understand there’s a certain kind of synergy and energy of doing a show. Even if you’re just on the tech – just on the tech; the tech are awesome. If you’re on tech\, even if you’re not in the show\, there’s still this exciting energy because it’s this really cool space of collaboration that you almost don’t get anywhere else. So I’m excited for you. I can’t wait to hear all about it. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Well\, I will tell you more as the days unfold\, as you probably know\, it’s a chaotic time right now. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Of course. All right\, so today we’re focusing on collaboration\, and the ways we move\, sometimes without even noticing\, from competition\, to cooperation\, to coordination\, to true collaboration. And then you’re going to guide us through a practice. Can you share a little bit more about the practice and why you chose it?[00:02:00]\nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah\, absolutely. I wanna start though with a little bit of background on this thing I’m going to be talking about today called Blue Box Thinking. We’ve talked about it on the podcast before\, and it comes from a model of inter-organizational relationships that shows different ways groups work together: competition\, cooperation\, coordination\, collaboration and then finally conglomeration\, where everything kind of really comes together and ends up consolidating. \nAs originally presented by Dr. Robin Keast from Southern Cross University\, the diagram she was using as she was going around presenting about this had randomly colored boxes to represent different organizations and how they’re connected. \nBut what she was finding while presenting about the model was that what people often do is fixate on the one box that appears to be on top. And in this case it just happened to be always blue\, right? The blue box was always showing up on top on these slides\, on her slide deck. [00:03:00]\nAnd so people kept asking her\, wait\, is my organization the blue box? Am I the blue box? Should I be the blue box? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Mm-hmm. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: And so that pull toward wanting to be the box in charge or you know\, with quotes “in charge\,” is what we’re calling ‘blue box thinking.’ And it keeps our attention on status and position instead of on the processes and relationships that actually make collaboration work. \nAnd so the practice I’m sharing today is called ‘Shift the Box.’ It’s just a name that was made up for this. I chose it because blue box thinking tends to pull our attention toward position. Like\, who’s in charge\, who has the power? When collaboration really depends on process and relationships\, right? \nLike what can we create together that we maybe couldn’t have created if we weren’t together? And so this practice helps us gently move our focus from\, where am I on the chart\, [00:04:00] to\, how can we share power and create something together? \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. Well that’s exciting\, I love that it doesn’t ask people to jump straight into having perfect collaboration. It just invites one small shift to how we’re relating to each other. I think that’s really exciting. All right. Let’s get into it. Tell us about this practice. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Alright\, so first\, you’re going to want to start of course by thinking of a real situation where you’re working with others. So maybe it’s your team\, maybe it’s you’re just thinking of your team meeting\, you know\, the situation of your team meeting. \nMaybe it’s a community collaborative effort\, or any situation where you’re working with others\, right? Hold that situation in your mind and ask yourself who’s involved and what are we trying to do together? \nThen I want you to think about which of those Cs is your group currently in? The C’s we mentioned were competition\, cooperation\, [00:05:00] coordination\, collaboration\, which I’ll go into in a second. \nI want you to ask yourself\, which of these best describes how we’re working together right now? \nSo just to give you a few ideas of what each of these looks like: Competition. So your group might be in competition mode if you or other group members are mostly protecting their own interests or ideas\, right? You’re not sharing anything\, everyone’s trying to be on top. \nCooperation. You might be in cooperation mode if members are just sharing information\, right? Just strict information sharing or helping each other briefly on occasion. \nYou might be in coordination if the group is working toward a shared goal\, but mostly staying in your own lanes\, right? ‘My organization only does these things\, your organization only does those things. I’m only going to agree to do things that my organization does.’ Rather than kind of mixing up the ideas a little bit \nAnd in [00:06:00] collaboration\, you might be in collaboration if you’re sharing power\, resources\, and ideas to co-create something that you wouldn’t create alone. That each of your organizations are not likely to create alone. \nSo there are no wrong answers. Just notice where you are without judgment. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Okay. I like that. The expectation is not that you should always be collaborating. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. Right. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: You know\, I think about in school where it’s like\, ‘you always have to share\, you always have to get along\,’ and sometimes it’s not helpful. And I love that competition or coordination might be exactly the right option\, and that you’re stopping to name that. That’s great. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Mm-hmm. Sometimes you just need an information exchange. That’s all you need\, and that’s okay. The point really is awareness\, so not grading ourselves or judging where the group is at. \nSo step three then is to notice your own personal blue box thinking [00:07:00] impulses. So maybe that’s\, ‘I wish I were the one making the decision\,’ or maybe it’s\, ‘They should really put me in charge of this.’ \nOr maybe it’s\, ‘Why is that person in charge or taking charge of this?’ And then finally\, maybe it’s\, ‘We just need someone at the top to decide.’ \nOr interestingly\, it could be the opposite\, right? This could be where you might suppress your own voice by thinking\, ‘Oh\, someone else is in charge. It’s not my place to speak up\,’ right? And that’s not healthy either. \nSo just notice where you might be focusing on position or status\, instead of process and relationship again. No judgment. You are just observing and learning right now. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, this feels powerful because it normalizes a lot of those thoughts. Many of us\, well\, okay\, many of us were trained to look at there’s just one person who’s in charge\, and that’s [00:08:00] it. So it makes sense that we would automatically just think\, ‘Well\, someone needs to just make this decision.’ \nAnd I don’t know\, I think if you spend a lot of time in any job as a grownup\, most of them have\, you know\, hierarchies and decision makers and leadership teams. And so it can get really easy to think\, ‘Well\, someone else should be making this choice\,’ and then not sharing what you’re thinking. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: You know\, I’ve been in coalition meetings before where I’ve seen a question get asked of the group\, right? So someone was asking\, maybe it was a contractor came in to share some updates\, and they ask everyone a question. And I’ve seen literally everyone look toward the person in the room that had that positional or financial power\, even though that person was just a member of the coalition\, they weren’t the person in charge\, right? \nAnd so things like that matter too\, we’re doing this naturally. But I think being more aware of when that’s happening can be really helpful [00:09:00] in moving from a place where maybe you’re just coordinating\, but you feel like the group could be doing more. \nSo just being aware of where you’re at will help you with the next step here. So the last step then is to ask yourself\, ‘What is one small shift I can make to move this situation closer to collaboration?’ \nSo depending on where you’re at\, of course\, I mean\, if you feel like the group is where it needs to be right now\, then leave it be. But if the group needs to shift\, then that might look like moving from competition to cooperation. Maybe the action you could take is sharing a piece of information or a perspective that you’ve been holding back. \nIf it’s moving from cooperation to coordination\, maybe that’s offering to align your efforts toward a shared goal instead of working in parallel with each other. And when moving from coordination to collaboration\, maybe that’s inviting others into planning or decision making\, or asking what could we create together that none of us could [00:10:00] create alone. \nAnd I just want to add a bonus here\, because another step you could take that would still make a small shift is choosing a relationship to strengthen within the group. So maybe choosing to listen more deeply to another person\, or maybe expressing appreciation for their contribution\, publicly or privately\, or checking in with them outside your meetings\, right? \nEven just choosing to strengthen a relationship with one of the people in the group will help with some of these shifts as well. So just choose one concrete action that you could take in this situation\, something small enough that you could try it in the next week. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Yeah\, I love that. I think often when you’re caught in these tense spaces where all of the coalition people haven’t quite landed on how we’re going to work together\, it can really feel like you need to redesign the whole coalition\, the whole organization\, the whole structure. \nIt feels like\, [00:11:00] ‘Oh\, we gotta tear it all down and build over. It’s not working.” But actually it might just take all of us taking a bunch of tiny steps. And I love that you gave some really concrete actionable ones. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Yeah. I mean\, we don’t have to be taking big leaps here. We can grow collaborative efforts in really small shifts. We can grow it one relationship at a time\, one conversation at a time. We can share one piece of information at a time\, right? All these little things that we can do to improve our collaboration. \nSo that’s the practice. I mean\, this is something you can do in a few minutes\, and you can use it as a check-in at any point in your project. And over time\, you should be able to notice when you’re stuck in that blue box thinking and move toward more shared power\, stronger relationships\, and authentic collaboration. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: Thanks so much for sharing that Jessica. \nJESSICA BECKENDORF: Very happy to. I have been a big fan of Robin Keith for a long time\, so I love sharing about Blue Box thinking. \nERIN CARLSON RIVERA: That’s it for this episode. Thank you for [00:12:00] joining us. If this conversation resonated with you\, click the share button in your podcast app. \nWe’ll be back next week with a new episode. Until then\, keep practicing. \nCREDITS: The Practicing Connection Podcast is a production of One-Op and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture\, US Department of Agriculture and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy\, US Department of Defense under award number 2 0 2 3 4 8 7 74 3 3.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row]
URL:https://oneop.org/learn/how-we-work-together/
CATEGORIES:Community Engagement
ATTACH;FMTTYPE=image/png:https://oneop.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Practicing-Connection_Podcast-graphic-2.png
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