The Power of Connection, Reflection, and Evolution with Bob Bertsch

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Kalin Goble: Welcome to Practicing Connection, a podcast exploring the personal stories and collective practices that empower us to work together to improve our resilience and readiness in a rapidly changing world. Here to start the conversation are Jessica Beckendorf and Bob Bertsch.

Jessica Beckendorf: Hi, thanks for listening to the Practicing Connection podcast. I’m Jessica Beckendorf. Today’s a special episode as we bid farewell to my co-host, Bob Bertsch, who’s transitioning into his new role as the national project leader for OneOp. It’s not really goodbye so much as a, “See you later.” This isn’t the last time your voice will be on this podcast.

I’m super excited about that. I’m really excited about and happy for you in this new role as well. We’re going to focus today on the journey of this podcast and Bob’s experiences within that. Basically, this is like our interview. We’re doing an interview of Bob this time instead of Bob doing the interviewing. He’s also going to share a practice with us. Hi, Bob. How are you?

Bob Bertsch: I’m good, Jessica. I didn’t know if I was prepared for thinking about that, like the end of the podcast. This really is, like I said, maybe not the last time that my voice will be here. My last significant contribution for a while anyway, so I’m okay until you made me sad. No, I’m kidding. No, I’m good. I’m good. Thank you.

Jessica: [laughs] We did try to talk you into, I think, a January or February episode. We had an idea on that. You set a pretty good boundary, which we do talk about on this podcast.

Bob: That’s right. Check out episode number– No, just search oneop.org for boundaries. I’m sure you’ll find at least a couple of practicasts.

Jessica: Yes, exactly. Well, this has really been an incredible journey. We’ve been working together for a long time. I think you’re way better at this than I am, but I’m pretty sure it’s been nine years, about.

Bob: Yes.

Jessica: It’s actually about to be 10 because I think I started my journey with OneOp in 2015. Yes, it’s about to be 10 years. We’ve been doing this podcast for five of those nine years. We started with just a few episodes a year and then we grew it into many more episodes. This has been really an incredible journey. We’ve done tons of iterating. As we reflect on your time here, I want to dive into some of the highlights and I guess lessons learned. Can you share a few highlights from the last several years in your role and on the podcast? As you look back at your time on this role on our team and co-hosting the Practicing Connection podcast, what are some of the most memorable moments or episodes that stood out to you and why?

Bob: The first thing that came to mind, Jessica, and thank you for this question, is our first attempts at podcasting. This is before we even had a thing called Practicing Connection podcast or even the Practicing Connection in a Complex World podcast, which was the original name of the podcast. This was like–

Jessica: They can’t see me, but I’m laughing right now because I know what you’re about to say. Go ahead. Sorry.

Bob: Our first attempts, they were just very organic and exploratory and improvisational. We turned on the microphone and saw what happened. It was great. I think that helped us learn about what we were together as a team in those initial attempts. We knew each other. We had done some work together, but what does it really mean for the two of us to combine?

It makes me think of one of our early episodes of what was then called the Practicing Connection in a Complex World podcast, the actual podcast, not these burgeoning attempts I’m talking about, but an actual episode we did on transformational relationships. We talked about the idea that people can connect with each other in a way that causes something new to come, not just one idea or thing, but this third entity.

That is the relationship, right? It’s like the space between the two people that emerges. It’s not just a combination of each person’s qualities or ideas or personalities. It’s more than that. I think when that happens and, obviously, I think that happened for us, and I think when that happens, the relationship transforms each person definitely, for sure. It also creates the possibility and the potential for that relationship to transform other people and things that are just outside of the relationship.

I think that happened with us, not just because we created the podcast and shared it with others. Obviously, that was an intentional act of doing that. I think it just happened and can happen for people because you’re both willing to be transformed by the experience and the things that emerge through the relationship. That’s definitely one thing that I think of a lot when I’m talking about moments that I remember.

Jessica: Yes, thank you for reminding me of that. I really enjoyed that as well. We’ve talked about this before, but we’ve both read the book Emergent Strategy. One of the themes in that book is change happening in fractals. I have said before and I don’t know if this came from that book or not or if it came from somewhere else, but I feel like what you just described is the evidence of change happening one conversation at a time, right?

Bob: That’s brilliant, yes. That is a much better way of putting it than I was putting it. No, that’s what it felt like, right? That’s what those first attempts were. Change was happening, like you said, in those conversations. It’s continued as we’ve refined it. It’s continued to create change, I think, not just for the two of us, but hopefully for anyone who’s listening to the podcast now.

Jessica: I’m smiling really big again because I remember some of our first before we started the podcast itself. When we were doing those other one-off projects, there were so many ums and ahs. I know that this is such a small thing. We were both so conscious of all of that that sometimes our trying to speak was really stilted anyway. That’s just a skill versus a big growth and change comment. That was really funny and then us trying to talk about trying not to do as many ums and ahs.

Bob: Which made us more self-conscious.

Jessica: Yes, that was funny.

[laughter]

Bob: The other thing that comes to mind when you pose this question is just that there was a moment where we were able to find the connection between the work that we wanted to do together and military family readiness. What OneOp is about is about supporting military family readiness through the support of military family service providers. I don’t want to go into too much history, but I’ll just say that the history of the team that we were on was a rollercoaster ride. We were doing one thing and then we were doing another thing.

Then there was this moment where you and I started working together and we were trying to find our way. We were in Fargo, North Dakota. That’s where I am right now, folks, with our colleagues, Steve Judd and Bridget Scott. We’re drawing on big sheets of paper and ideating and trying to find our way. Bridget started talking about the Military Family Readiness System. It’s a DOD-defined system that is defined in policy. There was just a spark, right?

Our interests in networks and community and collaboration and leadership all started to mesh with this idea of the Military Family Readiness System that is described in policy as a complex, adaptive system, which combines all of these resources and people and opportunities to support military families, whether that system of resources isn’t just in DOD or just in the branch services or just on installations. Envisioning it that way really helped us figure out how we were going to help service providers thrive as part of that system. It was like one of those moments of clarity where you’re just like, you feel lost in the woods. [chuckles] Suddenly, there’s an opening and the sun is shining through. That’s another one that sticks in my head.

Jessica: Oh, I remember that meeting really well. I’ll never forget that. It’s like it all suddenly made sense, right? We knew we had a place and we were really struggling to get our feet under us with it. Then suddenly, we were like, “Oh this. Yes, this is exactly it.” To me, the funny thing was that I think that that’s the direction that we had been talking around for a long time. It’s just that this clarity that happened during that meeting really brought it together. Now, I have to ask and I know you don’t like to play favorites, [chuckles] neither do I because I really do love every interview we do. I love every episode we do, but I’m going to still ask you. Is there an episode, achievement, or moment that you feel particularly proud of and why?

Bob: Yes, [chuckles] similar feelings. Yes, I love them all. That’s probably not true. I think there’s some that were a little bit challenging. As I thought about this, ones that came to mind right away were our interview view with Heather Plett about holding space, and then a two-part episode that we did with Bjørn Peterson around creativity and change. The reason those, I think, came to mind is because we like to push at the edges a little bit around here on Practicing Connection.

We like to push the envelope a little bit, maybe challenge ourselves definitely, and maybe challenge the thinking of folks who are listening to see how does this fit, right? We have this frame of military family readiness and the Military Family Readiness System and our work as service providers or extension educators or however you’re contributing to that system. It might not always make sense, how holding space matters or how we might be able to use art or poetry or songs in our work. Those were two episodes that stuck out. Of course, Bjørn especially because you and I had an opportunity to sit down, have dinner with him in person, which is a rare occurrence for us in terms of podcast guests.

Jessica: Lovely.

Bob: We happened to be in Saint Paul, Minnesota. Bjørn was able to join us there. That was really great. He’s still a good friend, I think, to both of us. Any of those episodes that showed the MFRS, the Military Family Readiness System, in action. Food Security Hawaii Working Group, which Arletta and Kina and Lorna. Arletta works on Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam. Lorna works for the Hawaii National Guard and Kina works for Hawaii Foodbank, I think it is called.

They joined us together and they were part of this Food Security Hawaii Working Group. We got to hear about the unique challenges that they have in terms of food security on the island. We also got to hear how they’re collaborating, how they’re working together across these silos, boundaries, whatever you want to call them, to address the problem through collective action.

I think that’s what we’ve always been about. There’s lots of other episodes that come to mind on that one, but that one was really affecting. I think we came away being able to feel how much those three people cared about that issue and about the people that they were serving. That comes through on all the interviews, but it was visceral to me after getting done talking with them. That one really sticks out.

Jessica: I’m really enjoying being reminded of all these. I think I’m going to go back and listen to some of them. Let’s put the focus a little bit on your own growth. How has your experience with the podcast and your role so far at OneOp influenced your personal and professional growth? Are there any particular lessons or insights that you’ve gained?

Bob: It’s definitely changed my career remarkably. Just recently had a chance to have some conversations with some of our colleagues and especially Dr. Kyle Kostelecky, who’s the PI and project director for OneOp. We are both talking about like, “Oh, my gosh. If this person hadn’t talked to this person or if this person hadn’t ever told me about this or if I had never met so-and-so, how do we get from–” For Kyle, it’s been a little bit longer, but for me, it’s been about 15 years now. How did I get from 15 years ago to here?

A lot of it has been the opportunity that OneOp has presented, I think, to everybody who has worked on the project and also that what is now called the Extension Foundation. In the olden days when I got involved, it was called the E-Extension. Both of those organizations really helped me and I think others build a national network. For me, it was important because it went beyond the confines of my specific role at my university.

My job for most of the time I’ve been with OneOp at NDSU was web technology specialist. My interest went beyond that into adult education and community development and network science and in places that I wasn’t able to necessarily– even though I tried [chuckles] in my role and probably pushed the edges of my role at NDSU as well, but I wasn’t able to fully embrace those things. OneOp was the way for me to pursue those interests and do the kind of work that I wanted to do.

The podcast has been the place where we have those conversations about those things, right? Those things that I think you and I both care about. I hope everybody who listens cares about at least some of those things. Then we could find the intersections between those different ideas and explore what those ideas would mean in the context of military family readiness for service providers and adult educators and really forge a path towards applying it to family readiness and well-being.

That’s been transformational for me from a personal and professional growth standpoint. I don’t know if I have a particular insight or lesson. They’re innumerable. Just the opportunities to sit in rooms with such talented people, knowledgeable people who come. What our listeners might not know about the unique thing about our project is that the project involves so many people from all over the country.

From right now, I think we’re at nine different colleges or universities around the country, all from different disciplines, all around family and human development, but from different aspects of that, all to sit in the same room and share ideas with each other, talk to each other, collaborate with each other and create programming that we hope supports military family service providers in their work as part of the Military Family Readiness System. That’s been awesome. All the times we’ve been in rooms and just had an idea come out that’s totally transformed how we think about things. I’m remembering Steve Judd handing me a book one time. I can’t remember the name of it. You probably have it on your shelf.

Jessica: Connecting to Change the World. Yes, I’m looking back on my shelf right now.

Bob: Right. Steve’s like, “You should read Connecting to Change the World.” From reading that, we’re like, “Okay, our team’s going to do something completely different now.” [chuckles] We met with the national project leader at the time. We’re just like, “Hey, we’re going to do something completely different because we read this book.” It’s just an example of how that shared brainpower. The connection and collaboration can just, like I said, make change. I think that’s what we’ve always been talking about is like, how do we connect with each other so that we can make positive change in the world? That has just happened so many times this project. I can’t count them.

Jessica: If I could add one thing even though this question was directed at you and I’m curious if you feel the same way. For me, the podcast also offered an opportunity to practice some of the things, the new thinking, and the new things that I’ve been learning. Right down to the way we were planning each episode at the beginning where we use the chaordic stepping stones, which was a facilitation planning technique that we learned in a class. It was this beautiful incubator to allow some different ways of thinking and working to take hold. I don’t know if you’ve had a similar feeling.

Bob: No, I’m so glad you brought that up. Yes, it hasn’t just been all public-facing programming where those moments have happened. It’s also just learning how we do the work together, which for us, like you said– I’m just repeating what you said, but the incubator aspect of it, it’s one of the great things about working in the space that you and I have worked in through these many years is we get to do relationship while we’re talking about relationship. We get to do collaboration while we’re talking about collaboration, right?

Jessica: No meta.

Bob: Yes, right. It’s very meta.

[laughter]

Bob: It’s really been awesome. Yes, I agree with that.

Jessica: Well, now, as you’re transitioning into your new role as the national project leader for OneOp, what are some of your hopes and visions for the future of Practicing Connection podcast and the OneOp community?

Bob: I definitely have some. My first thought was like, “That’s not my problem now. That’s on you and Coral Owen, co-producer, to figure that out.” I’m super excited to see where you guys take things. I thought about, it’s just a fact. In fact, Brigitte Scott, our former national project leader, said this to Jessica and I before. She’s like, “The work you’re doing is really important to OneOp.” We’re like, “Eh.” I like self-deprecating Midwesterns.

Jessica: “It’s not really important.” [laughs]

Bob: Yes, right. Now that I have a different perspective on it, I’m like, “Oh yes, it is.” The podcast and the Practicing Connection community are really critical to OneOp, working towards our vision to facilitate the connections and shared knowledge required of providers to advance the Military Family Readiness System. I hope that we can see that work continue as Practicing Connection, to continue to grow as a space for connection and sharing.

One of our recent episodes, as we were talking to Amy Rodick, who’s the director for the Office of Military Family Readiness and Policy at Department of Defense. We talked about how the podcast and OneOp’s PowerUp magazine have been telling the stories of the MFRS in action. Ms. Rodick called on service providers to start sharing their stories as well and then was like, “How should they do that?” I’m like, “Well, they should email you guys, right?” [chuckles] that kind of thing.

I was like, “Yes, that makes sense.” I think that is a great opportunity and I’d love to see that happening, not just on the podcast but on the Practicing Connection community on LinkedIn, continue to be a place and grow as a place for those stories of successes and failures to be told and a place for people to ask questions of their colleagues and share their experiences and their frustrations and their hope for the future and to just connect and be a part of that.

I think the podcast is a formal way of doing that, of telling those stories. The community on LinkedIn, I really hope that becomes a place where folks can talk directly to their colleagues, service providers, extension educators, and other folks who are supporting our military families across the nation and around the world. Shout out, Germany.

Jessica: [chuckles] Yes.

Bob: Jessica keeps track of the geography, where listeners are coming from.

Jessica: Looks like we’ve got some regulars from Germany.

Bob: Right, we can’t shout out everybody. Sorry. Apologies across the nation, but Germany, I know you’re listening.

Jessica: [chuckles] There are literally lots of cities. We’ve had downloads from six out of seven continents. We’re looking at you next, Antarctica. [laughs]

Bob: Right, yes, and that’s important work, right? Different contexts to be outside the continental United States. As we say, OCONUS, use some jargon for you. That’s a whole different thing in terms of supporting our military families outside of the United States. Thanks for the work that you guys are doing there. I’m happy for the chance to shout out Germany and everywhere else that folks are doing work to support our military families.

Jessica: Well, I can’t tell you enough how much I appreciate the collaboration we’ve had, the leadership you’ve provided on the podcast and all of our programming here, and also just our friendship. This is an amazing experience for me. I’m excited to take the next leg, but I’m really excited to see your work change as well. Let’s maybe end here with, again, not a final practice that we’re asking for from you because you’ll be back on here as a guest. Could you share a practice or strategy that’s currently supporting your personal and professional development and share a little bit about how this practice has helped you navigate your role and responsibilities?

Bob: All right. I warned Jessica before we started recording. I’m going to talk about meditation again. Some of you have probably heard me talk about it many times before, but it is my practice. Literally, it is my practice. It’s supportive in so many ways. Primarily, it helps me be mindful, which makes sense. That’s what meditation is about, but it’s so important to be able to direct my attention and to notice things. My new role is a role where there’s lots of moving parts.

Like I said, there’s nine different partner universities, lots of programming happening. Check out our webinars on oneop.org. Podcasts, there’s blogs, there’s lots of stuff happening. Honing the ability to notice is really important. Notice when I’m talking too much, which might be happening right now. Notice when the room changes, even the virtual room. Jessica and I both have done a lot of facilitation. There’s that feeling in the physical room. You’re like, “They’re not getting it or they’re not picking up what we’re putting down or that kind of thing.

Jessica: Or they’re hating what we’re putting down. [laughs]

Bob: They’re hating what we’re putting down, right? Noticing that is really an important part of facilitation. My meditation practice helps me with that. Noticing facial expressions and tones of voice and noticing what I’m feeling like when my emotions are popping up and how my body is feeling and how that might be affecting whatever’s happening in that moment, whatever conversation is happening in that moment. That’s just one part of it. We’ve talked about equanimity on a practicast before. That’s another thing that meditation practice brings to me like an even-mindedness. My colleagues might not think I’m very even-minded, but you should see me when I’m not meditating, folks, right?

[laughter]

Bob: Just that ability to disrupt the automatic reactions that we have and being able to do that when I need to and not get caught up in what I’m feeling but lean into the experience that I’m having and that helps. That helps. I think in a leadership role, it helps you to not cut off conversations and to allow the conditions for change to emerge and let things happen. It’s the hardest thing.

I think over the years, I’ve counseled leaders and sometimes preached at leaders. It’s like, you can’t steer the ship all the time, but it is our instinct to want to. Being aware of that instinct and being balanced about a practicing equanimity has been really important. Another thing that we practice in meditation practice is acceptance of what’s happening even if it’s unpleasant or pleasant to accept that.

That’s really helped me with my patients. As Jessica knows, change doesn’t happen fast enough for me a lot of times. That acceptance to what’s happening has really been important. I meditate daily and, yes, I think it’s changed who I am and informs everything that I do. Meditating is important. Finding quiet time, that can be very helpful. I would suggest, seeking out teachers and seeing if you can find guided meditations that can help you cultivate some of the skills, the different skills.

Just being quiet and listening can cultivate a lot of those skills, especially mindfulness. If you really want to get into some of the other ones, guided meditation is the practice that I do. I encourage you to give it a try. If you ever have questions about it or want to reach out, join the Practicing Connection community on LinkedIn and post a question about it. Someone will get it to me if I don’t see it. I’d be happy to have a conversation about it.

Jessica: Well, that sounds like it’s been a beautifully transformational practice for you. Thank you so much for sharing. Yes, go ahead.

Bob: I have you to thank for that. I have Jessica to thank for that. Pandemic days, she recommended an app to me that got me started meditating and, yes, it’s been a great journey.

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Jessica: That’s it for this episode. Thanks so much for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode, click the Share button in your podcast app to share it with a friend. Thanks also to our incredible team, co-producer Coral Owen, announcer Kalin Goble, Joyce Vaughn and Maggie Lucas from OneOp’s marketing team, and Nathan Grimm who composed and performed all the music you hear on the podcast. We hope you’ll join us next time. In the meantime, keep practicing.

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Kalin: The Practicing Connection podcast is a production of OneOp and is supported by the National Institute of Food and Agriculture, US Department of Agriculture, and the Office of Military Family Readiness Policy, US Department of Defense under award numbers 2019-48770-30366 and 2023-48770-41333.

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